Ram 1500 EcoDiesel or Ford F-150 EcoBoost?

[SilverLife]

Without a hitch, did you use rope or duct tape to secure the trailer coupler to the vehicle?😚

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by jcl

I think you are assuming that the factors that make diesels a good choice for heavy equipment apply equally to passenger vehicles. I don't agree with that.

I know diesels well. I spent 24 years working in a heavy equipment distributor, the largest in the world. Sales, service, parts. Power generation, mining trucks, construction equipment, ag equipment, on highway truck engines (until the manufacturer moved out of that business). It was all diesel, apart from the natural gas fuelled models. Then I spent a few years on alternate fuelled equipment, developing diesel/lng fuel systems. When I lived and worked in the U.K. I drove diesel personal vehicles due to the tax structure.

But I won't own a diesel for a personal vehicle in North America, unless I need a vehicle with a GVW rating significantly higher, such as a 450/550/+ model, or I find myself with a duty cycle that is far beyond personal transportation. I just don't see the factors that made them the best choice in all those other applications as applying very much.

Jeff

Not to go too far off topic, but the great advantage of diesel use to be that it was cheaper and more reliable to operate. Left to a competitive market diesel fuel would be 25% cheaper. That is the main reason it proliferated in Europe.
Service intervals on diesels are half to one third of gas engines. I operated my own infrastructure construction business for close to 40 years. 25 Mack Semi Dumps and a dozen different backhoes loaders the largest being 160k lbs. I paid the bills and bought the equipment over the years and diesel is tops.
That said I towed our 2013 30 International with a 2012 Eccoboost however after 3 years and 100k miles I got tired of the tail wagging the dog. It was a job. It will do a great job pulling smaller trailers. Since it was time to trade I went to an F-250 Diesel for obvious reasons.

[trumpetguy]

We tow our 28 foot International with a 2016 Ram 1500 with 5.7 Hemi with 3.92 rear end. I added a Leer topper, and Summo Springs. Using a Blue Ox hitch with 1500 bars we have today completed a 4000 mile round trip to the Grand Canyon and Southern Utah. During the trip we encountered some horrible road conditions, high cross winds, and steep mountains. The worst was the awful concrete roads in Louisiana. That state should be ashamed of their Interstate roads. The truck and Blue Ox performed admirably with no glitches and we felt safe and in control even with the wind. I tow at 65 mph on Interstates where safe and we averaged 10.7 mpg. According to the trip computer.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

Not to go too far off topic, but the great advantage of diesel use to be that it was cheaper and more reliable to operate. Left to a competitive market diesel fuel would be 25% cheaper. That is the main reason it proliferated in Europe.

Diesel fuel has more energy per kg or litre than gasoline, so leaving aside taxes it should cost more.

I don't disagree on the benefits of diesel for Mack trucks or backhoes. But those have a different duty cycle than passenger vehicles.

Diesel use expanded for passenger vehicles in Europe in past years (lower tax rate) but is now being curtailed as larger cities ban diesels due to both the air quality and health issues. That will only continue IMO

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-38170794

[Milo1952]

I agree
I have the 2016 f250 diesel sc and love the flexibilty to take with whatever I want and more important whomever I want without having to deal with payload issues

[rostam]

Originally Posted by jcl

Diesel fuel has more energy per kg or litre than gasoline, so leaving aside taxes it should cost more....

The price is not dependent on energy content, but dependent on the time/effort it takes for refineries to produce 1 gallon of fuel out of crude oil. It is less costly to generate a gallon of diesel than to generate a gallon of gasoline, hence diesel fuel is cheaper all around the world. In US, tax structure makes Diesel more expensive than gasoline, so its artificial.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by rostam

The price is not dependent on energy content, but dependent on the time/effort it takes for refineries to produce 1 gallon of fuel out of crude oil. It is less costly to generate a gallon of diesel than to generate a gallon of gasoline, hence diesel fuel is cheaper all around the world. In US, tax structure makes Diesel more expensive than gasoline, so its artificial.

The comment was based on franklyfrank's qualifier of a competitive market. From a market standpoint, it would be based on value, or energy content.

I think you are talking only about production costs, and for a fixed volume.

Now bring in the demand side. Diesel is also sold as heating oil in many markets. Very low demand for that in summer, so diesel is cheaper. Lots of demand for heating oil in winter, in some markets, so diesel is then more expensive. It isn't easy for a producer to vary the % of diesel they get out of a barrel of oil, so demand matters.

You also have to consider the cost of new/upgraded refineries to produce ULSD. Comparing world refining costs when the fuel isn't the same globally doesn't make sense.

But as more locations ban diesels, this is all going to become less important anyway.

If you are saying that everything that costs the same to supply should be priced the same in the market, then check airline fares, just as one example. That's a competitive market.

[MOS]

Originally Posted by Milo1952

I agree
I have the 2016 f250 diesel sc and love the flexibilty to take with whatever I want and more important whomever I want without having to deal with payload issues

Maybe my 2016 F150 sc ecoboost has more payload than your F250 diesel
Like 3000# , yours ??

[Al and Missy]

Diesel was cheaper than gasoline until the advent of EPA regulations mandating ultra-low sulfur content. I'm not sure the new diesel is less expensive to produce than gasoline.

Al

[dkottum]

I like the diesels for their low rpm torque (especially versatile with an eight speed transmission) and 30 mpg with our pickup and 45 mpg with our TDI sedan on the highway. Repairs on the 1 year old truck and 11 year old car have been zero, only routine maintenance.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by Al and Missy

Diesel was cheaper than gasoline until the advent of EPA regulations mandating ultra-low sulfur content. I'm not sure the new diesel is less expensive to produce than gasoline.

Al

Europe was using uls diesel before the US..the US ships diesel to Europe and transports gasoline back..the low sulphuric diesel is so much better than the old fuel...I have had it jell at 22 degrees,because of high paraffin, constantly changing filters, engine life was 1/4 of what it is now, more hp now with multi fire injection systems, my last cat engine had 1.4 million miles with original injectors, new technology...I love it..

[Rgentum]

Posted by: trumpetguy:

We tow our 28 foot International with a 2016 Ram 1500 with 5.7 Hemi with 3.92 rear end. I added a Leer topper, and Summo Springs. Using a Blue Ox hitch with 1500 bars we have today completed a 4000 mile round trip to the Grand Canyon and Southern Utah. During the trip we encountered some horrible road conditions, high cross winds, and steep mountains. The worst was the awful concrete roads in Louisiana. That state should be ashamed of their Interstate roads. The truck and Blue Ox performed admirably with no glitches and we felt safe and in control even with the wind. I tow at 65 mph on Interstates where safe and we averaged 10.7 mpg.

___________________________

Last week, with our Ram/Cummins 2500, we towed our 27FB from Seattle to Provo UT (approx. 1,000 miles) on the Interstates at 60 mph & averaged 16.2 mpg. We then left the Interstates & went over the Rockies (Monarch Pass, elev, 11,310 ft) to Pueblo CO reducing the average mileage to 15.5 mpg (13.5 for just Provo to Pueblo).

[Boxite]

Diesel fuel is more difficult to produce in roadgrades (low sulfur) than gasoline. Diesel fuel is NOT likely to become more affordable than gasoline regardless of all the mis-information being repeated because marine-use is likely to increase considerably in the future due to changing environmental and production considerations.

Diesel was seemingly all the rage in Europe...until recently... because now Europeans are finding the noise and air pollution which diesel contributes are offensive. This is likely to result in tightening production costs to make the fuel more acceptable... and will INcrease diesel cost relative to gasoline.

The layman's understanding of how diesel is priced to the marketplace ("it must be the gov'ts taxes") is a simplistic one that ignores the basics of "supply and demand". (And "rotsam" hit near the nail's head regarding energy-content.)
Read what Marathon Oil says about it:

https://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/...08_leister.pdf

[Jeffndaile]

Originally Posted by Mergatroyd

Interesting about the trailer weight. Do you know what the tongue weight scaled in at? The 28 Airstream specs indicate 976 lbs.

Has the rig been able to maintain speeds going up hills? I'm concerned about too much downshifting and engine screaming going up hills. This is what I like about diesels, max torque at 1600 RPM.

Dealer said my Ram 2500 1989 powerband was between 1800 and 2300 rpm.... hmm

[Jeffndaile]

Originally Posted by Arcticfox

We travel extensively with our trailer, about 40 - 50,000 miles a year and have been very impressed with the F150. Sure a 250/diesel would give us a few things we don't have now like engine breaks and more power, but for us the additional benefits are not worth the negatives.
Negatives like a truck that will no longer fit into Auto car washes and parking structures, not to mention the pain it is in parking lots. The diesel is about 12,000 premium (in Canada) and the fuel cost 25% more. The payloads of an F250 are right around 2,000 lbs depending on the trim package and that is just not enough of a difference in my books. The maintenance is about 4 fold on a per mile costing and that needs to be taken into consideration. I just don't know how one can get a payback over the life of the truck.

Again, this is just my .02 and others may feel differently.

By the way - I would be surprised if your 28' actually bulks out at 7600 lbs ready to camp. Ours scales in a 6843 ready to camp on a 3 month trip and that's including our Pro-Pride hitch.

Hope this helps

Doug

Hey Doug, tell me more about your F150 please! Year, model etc.

[Milo1952]

payback is in larger payload, Lariat trim supercab payload sticker at 2300 lb.
They last 2x as long than a gas engine
downhill safety with the engine braking
and my 2015 f 250 SC fits in my garage and is maybe an inch longer than the 150
same width and 1 inch lower to the ground than the 150
It has a good turning radius and better gas mileage towing than the 150,
Not a pain in parking lots, just park a little further out and do a little walking. The exercise will do you some good.
And did I mention power 440hp & 860 torque.
You can take with you whatever you want including extra people or perhaps even an atv . That's what I call PAYBACK !

[utahredrock]

I just replaced my 2013 Tundra with a 2015 EcoDiesel. The Tundra was fine for my vintage Airstream, but struggled with my less aerodynamic (but lighter) new SOB trailer. And the Tundra's abysmal mileage was just too hard to take. We'll see how it goes . . .

[EZTOO]

We pull with an F-250 SD w/6.2 gasser. Our Excella weighs in @7540 lbs loaded and our TV has decent power and the mileage averages 11-12 mpg. I agree it's nothing to brag about, but our TV is a rarely used(other than for towing) third vehicle. If we were full-timers diesel would be the way to go, it's not worth the extra initial purchase, operating, maintenance and repair costs in our case. Good luck!!

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by EZTOO

We pull with an F-250 SD w/6.2 gasser. Our Excella weighs in @7540 lbs loaded and our TV has decent power and the mileage averages 11-12 mpg. I agree it's nothing to brag about, but our TV is a rarely used(other than for towing) third vehicle. If we were full-timers diesel would be the way to go, it's not worth the extra initial purchase, operating, maintenance and repair costs in our case. Good luck!!

What’s wrong with a gas Superduty? I have one, looks great and tows great, easy on the maintenance and sits up nice and high in traffic.

[bono]

This SOB trailer you are referring to... is this the small red trailer on your photos? I just can't believe that Tundra could not handle this trailer. I understand that Tundra is a pickup and maybe that was the root cause (just kidding, just kidding)...

Originally Posted by utahredrock

I just replaced my 2013 Tundra with a 2015 EcoDiesel. The Tundra was fine for my vintage Airstream, but struggled with my less aerodynamic (but lighter) new SOB trailer. And the Tundra's abysmal mileage was just too hard to take. We'll see how it goes . . .