Ram 1500 EcoDiesel or Ford F-150 EcoBoost?

[Moflash]

We have a 28ft International after pulling it one summer we traded the F150 for a F350 6.7 TD.I will not ever go back to the F150.Night and day difference.

[tjdonahoe]

Eco booster ford isn't even in the running when compared to the ram eco diesel.I don't own one, I like the 6.7 Cummings in the 2500 ram...

[Overlanding]

My view.. A 3/4 ton diesel gives you much more control and margin of safety. More horsepower and torque to get you out of tough situations, bigger disc brakes, and an engine brake for hills.

for towing our 25FB, I would not trade my Ram 2500 Cummins diesel, 6 speed manual transmission.

[dkottum]

Oversized trucks, ho-hum.

A 28 is a medium sized Airstream. Airstreams tow with more stability and ease than anything on the market. Understand tow vehicle axle loads, setting up a quality weight distribution system, and how to drive them when towing, the F-150 Ecoboost and Ram EcoDiesel (as well as other half-ton brands) are very safe, comfortable and capable trucks. Take your pick, these newer half-tons are an excellent match and a joy to drive with and without the Airstream attached.

Notes: If you choose a "heavy" Hensley/ProPride hitch, the additional length of the hitch on the tongue (leverage) allows the hitch to add zero additional weight to the tow vehicle.

If you can figure out why payload/GVWR numbers are relevant when towing and using a capable, properly set up weight distribution hitch, use them. If not the axle ratings GAWR and combined weight rating GCWR advise what your tow vehicle suspension can carry, and pull and stop with your Airstream attached.

If your half-ton truck handles poorly when towing, you have a poorly set up weight distribution system and/or incapable hitch. Get some knowledgeable help or educate yourself.

[cabinetmaker]

Originally Posted by dkottum

Oversized trucks, ho-hum.

A 28 is a medium sized Airstream. Airstreams tow with more stability and ease than anything on the market. Understand tow vehicle axle loads, setting up a quality weight distribution system, and how to drive them when towing, the F-150 Ecoboost and Ram EcoDiesel (as well as other half-ton brands) are very safe, comfortable and capable trucks. Take your pick, these newer half-tons are an excellent match and a joy to drive with and without the Airstream attached.

Notes: If you choose a "heavy" Hensley/ProPride hitch, the additional length of the hitch on the tongue (leverage) allows the hitch to add zero additional weight to the tow vehicle.

If you can figure out why payload/GVWR numbers are relevant when towing and using a capable, properly set up weight distribution hitch, use them. If not the axle ratings GAWR and combined weight rating GCWR advise what your tow vehicle suspension can carry, and pull and stop with your Airstream attached.

If your half-ton truck handles poorly when towing, you have a poorly set up weight distribution system and/or incapable hitch. Get some knowledgeable help or educate yourself.

I say get the bigger truck and you won't need special perfectly setup hard to handle stuff between your truck and trailer...doing what the truck should be capable of doing.

Don't short change yourself...get a 2500 /3500. Most of the cabs and beds of these modern 2500 / 3500's are exactly the same as the 1/2 tons. If they set up too high for you then get a 2 wheel drive.

Have you driven one of the new 2500 / 3500's? They are not at all difficult or rough riding like they were years ago. Parking is never been a problem. I even take my 3500 srw Megacab 4x4 cummins into downtown parking garages...yes it fits no problem. I also drive it through the automatic car washes. I also can pull my airstream anywhere with ease!

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by cabinetmaker

. . . I also can pull my airstream anywhere with ease!

That's (at least) two of us.

[Rpatrick16]

Originally Posted by Arcticfox

I might not have this correct, but I think I read someplace that the 1500 eco diesel is a little light in the payload department. One might want to confirm this. I know the F150 with a Lariat trim package and HD towing should have a payload of around 1700.
Considering the tongue weight of a 28' you might want to look close at this. We pull a 28FC with a F150/ecoboost HD tow pac and have been very happy with this combo.

I just bought a 2017 F150 Lariat....if you get the 7000 GVWR package your payload comes out to 2240#. You can also get the the Pro Trailer Backup Assist which is an amazing feature.

I must say I love this truck!

[davidrrand]

If you are considering F150s, I would not rule out the 5.0 V8. Mine is a '15 Supercab Lariat with 2031# payload. Spent 8 weeks last year out west and back with our 25 FC. Over 8,000 miles. 7,000+ towing and around 900 unhitched and combine fuel mileage 13.0 mpg. Unhitched I average around 18 overall and on the interstate about 21. Has less torque than EB and is naturally aspirated so climbing 10,000' passes was slow but steady. If I spent all my time in the Rockies, I would go EB or diesel. Since I don't, real pleased with the truck as it is my daily drive and actually quite luxurious.

Previous truck was a '99 F350 SD Supercab with 7.3 diesel and manual 6 speed trans. Awesome tow machine without all the emission crap that has made current diesels even more expensive and many less reliable. If you go Superduty, I recommend 1 ton over 3/4. Very little difference in ride or price but substantial improvement in payload.

Good luck in your search!

[SpletKay06]

Wow there are some people on here who really waste a lot of money on maintenance. The Ram ecodiesel requires an oil change every 10000 miles and can be done for about $80 easily, under $60 if your crafty. The next maintenance item is a fuel filter every 30000 that takes 5 minutes at most for about $25. The fuel filter is really the only difference from a gasser like the F-150 with ecoboost which recommends expensive 91 octane.

[VernDiesel]

I like HDs but there is no need for a 28' AS. A no sway WDH improves your family's odds of surviving an emergency maneuver regardless of what you drive so don't use an HD as an excuse to fly blind. Properly specked all mfgs build a capable 1/2 ton for that trailer. 290,000 miles on my economy diesel. It generally runs all day everyday like a big truck delivering TTs.

Only diesel repair so far was a glow plug. The only additional maintenance is a now $25 fuel filter every 30k. I can now do it in 4 minutes. For me that's every other oil change. I always buy Rotella T6 on special & stock up. CarQuest has it for 17.99 a gallon thru the end on March. Walmart has it for 21.66 less $5 mail in rebate for 16.66 a gallon. Rock Auto has oil filters cheap as 4.77. So you can change your own oil for $60 ish.

Currently taking a Forrest River Wildcat Maxx OREWCT32TSX per title 37.8 with hitch 33.1 box. Per my scale ticket GCVW 15,800, 8,060 trailer axles, 7,740 on the truck axles. 960 miles from Near Portland to near LA on the 5. I slowed to 50 passing semi on the northern Cali pass. I have a tune so the turbo brake & trailer easily controlled the speed coming down without using my truck brakes. BTW they are still the original brakes.

It's not a HD but it's a comfortable capable fuel efficient truck.

[jim6090]

30' Flying Cloud Bunk

3.92 Ram Eco Diesel. -- A bit worried about EPA issues. ( Would not buy used - can't buy new for now). If this is resolved with a good solution this truck will be around for many years. Look up Vern Diesel on Ram forum. around 300k miles towing / delivering Airstreams for a living. NO MAJOR ISSUES. not even a set of brakes since he using the GDE engine brake.

21 MPG in stop start traffic. Easy 25 on the highway. You will never see 30 MPG driving over 70. I have the Green Diesel Engineering computer update. Huge improvement over stock.

14-16 Towing the speed limit. 55-65. Handles trailer with ease with a Propride hitch. From experience I don't believe the truck will handle a 25+ trailer without a Hensley or Propride. Soft quiet tires, soft suspension. Requires a great hitch.

So. GET A HEMI for now. FYI I have owned 4 F-250s


If you want a great truck for a daily driver. Ram is best choice. Comfort - ease of entry with air suspension.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by Mergatroyd

Now you got me wanting to look at 3/4 tons again. Let me go tell the wife.

FYI, I pulled with an F-150 Ecoboost for 4 years. A 28' As for one year and a 30' for three years. It got the job done but handling it in the mountains up and down was a job. After 100 K miles, last December I traded it for a 2017 F-250 Diesel, the difference is day and night. I thought a died and went to heaven.
I loved the F-150 and had a hard time giving it up but I love the 3/4 more. One thing to seriously consider is the payload. No matter how I tried to avoid it, our fully loaded extensive travel Payload was consistently at 1,830 lbs, 1,000 of it tongue weight. So at 1,580 lbs payload the truck was always overloaded . I was constantly juggling with how much water to load etc,etc, which is critical when you boondock even just for three days. The F-250 came with 2,400 lbs payload more than enough for me and it rides great.
This is my final 2 cents worth.

[Mergatroyd]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

FYI, I pulled with an F-150 Ecoboost for 4 years. A 28' As for one year and a 30' for three years. It got the job done but handling it in the mountains up and down was a job. After 100 K miles, last December I traded it for a 2017 F-250 Diesel, the difference is day and night. I thought a died and went to heaven.
I loved the F-150 and had a hard time giving it up but I love the 3/4 more. One thing to seriously consider is the payload. No matter how I tried to avoid it, our fully loaded extensive travel Payload was consistently at 1,830 lbs, 1,000 of it tongue weight. So at 1,580 lbs payload the truck was always overloaded . I was constantly juggling with how much water to load etc,etc, which is critical when you boondock even just for three days. The F-250 came with 2,400 lbs payload more than enough for me and it rides great.
This is my final 2 cents worth.

This is what I'm getting when I go thru all these posts. Nobody with a 3/4 ever goes back to a 1/2. No more worrying about loads and WD hitches.

I'm getting the 3/4 and buying a bicycle for my wife to go to the supermarket. Going down to tell her now. If I don't come back you'll know what happened.

[Arcticfox]

Originally Posted by Rpatrick16

I just bought a 2017 F150 Lariat....if you get the 7000 GVWR package your payload comes out to 2240#. You can also get the the Pro Trailer Backup Assist which is an amazing feature.

I must say I love this truck!

Wow - I didn't know you could configure a Lariat package such a high payload. Amazing! Did you have to watch the other options like sun roof to keep the payload that high?
Thanks

Doug

[Arcticfox]

Originally Posted by SpletKay06

Wow there are some people on here who really waste a lot of money on maintenance. The Ram ecodiesel requires an oil change every 10000 miles and can be done for about $80 easily, under $60 if your crafty. The next maintenance item is a fuel filter every 30000 that takes 5 minutes at most for about $25. The fuel filter is really the only difference from a gasser like the F-150 with ecoboost which recommends expensive 91 octane.

I'm not sure this is correct about the 91 octane.... I've been running F150's with the eco boost engine since they came out and have never once put anything other than regular gas in it. I've put 100's of thousands of miles on these trucks and have never had an issue.

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by Arcticfox

I'm not sure this is correct about the 91 octane.... I've been running F150's with the eco boost engine since they came out and have never once put anything other than regular gas in it. I've put 100's of thousands of miles on these trucks and have never had an issue.

Like many, many things posted to this thread, it's NOT correct as stated in a blanket all-or-nothing pronouncement without evidence or the rest of the readily-availabe information. You have to use Super to get the maximum output from the Ecoboost in challenging conditions (high temps, long grades, etc.) but there's no requirement that you use Super all the time. Believing counter-factual things seems to make people who made other choices feel better.

Ford's ACTUAL recommendation on the topic, from the manual of my 2017 F150 w/ the 3.5 Ecoboost:

Your vehicle is designed to operate on regular unleaded gasoline with a minimum pump (R+M)/2 octane rating of 87 or regular unleaded gasoline blended with a maximum of 85% ethanol (E85). Some fuel stations, particularly those in high altitude areas, offer fuels posted as regular unleaded gasoline with an octane rating below 87. We do not recommend these fuels. For best overall vehicle and engine performance, premium fuel with an octane rating of 91 or higher is recommended. The performance gained by using premium fuel is most noticeable in hot weather as well as other conditions, for example when towing a trailer.

EDIT: Attached is a photo of the fuel filler. Note that on an Ecoboost it narrows the recommedation to E10 for the max ethanol content, but doesn't have any restriction for Super like my car that actually requires Super has inside the filler door.

[BillfromWI]

Our 2014 FC25FB tongue weight, ready to travel with about 50% water and empty holding tanks is 1252 lbs. For some reason newer FB 25s have very heavy tongues. I did not know this when I ordered its first TV, a 2013 F150 Supercab, 3.5 Ecoboost, 4x4, 144” WB, max payload, max tow (3.73 axles). It was a great truck with all the power I ever needed but it was only ever in the Smokies not the Rockies, but I doubt the Rockies would present much of a climbing challenge to it. I calculate mileage on every fill and it never got what I’ve heard Ford or others claim. If it made 12.5 towing I was happy. It was not my daily driver so I have no useful experience about non-towing mileage. I think the 3.73 had more impact on mileage than one might expect.

Regardless, with the tongue weight it was carrying it was over loaded from the receiver to the tires to the axle. I could not correct this so I gave up and bought a 2016 GMC 2500 Duramax 4x4 Doublecab; the truck I should have started with.

I drove this rig to Alaska and back last summer and it was amazing. It is as quiet as the Ford (quieter than my Mercedes C300), rides better, and with the Duramax and Alison transmission mountains are sort of nonexistent, up and down. I drive it on cruise and it maintains the set speed. If I think a descent will be steep or curvy I bump the speed down and that’s it—no breaking required. I averaged 13 mpg on the Alaska trip but the truck started with 3,500 miles, by the end, 11,500 miles later, it was in the 14 – 15 range. This is great from a range stand point but I will never recover the $8000 cost of the Duramax in fuel savings. Don’t try to justify it on economy; there are other more important reasons in my opinion.

As far as “too big”, its footprint is within an inch or two of the Ford’s in both dimensions but it is a lot taller. Mine happens to have 20” wheels so some of the height may be avoidable. It weighs 8,000 lbs. empty (The GVWR of the Flying Cloud is about 7,300 lbs. as I recall. No tail-wagging here.) It is big, no doubt about that, but the comment about not fitting in garages is not an issue in my experience, and an F150 is almost exactly the same size.

If you’re buying a tow vehicle get a “3/4 ton”. If you’re buying a daily driver that tows it may be a harder decision. If it’s important to you to tow within the weight ratings of your TV you must know the actual tongue weight of your 28 and the weight of the stuff you stuff in the TV.

Good luck.

[Joe_Julie]

I make my living off the remanufacture of injectors for diesel engines. Let's just say times have been good. In order to meet very strict emission standards diesel engines are fitted with numerous pieces of emission equipment that have extremely high failure rates. This is due to their lack of testing and development prior to a rushed launched to market (customers are the beta testers). This includes Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) coolers, Urea injection after-treatment and injectors that have tolerances measured in microns that will fail with the slightest bit of contamination. The new Ford 6.7L Power Stroke has a replacement kit that is over $6,000 that includes the entire fuel system, lines, pump, injectors, etc. due to contamination issues. It's under warranty right now, but the day after warranty guess who will pay for that?

I would not own a diesel powered vehicle right now. Instead, I would pick a turbocharged V6 such as the Eco Boost, but as a first choice would simply choose a good V8 with standard fuel injection (I'd stay away from Gasoline Direct Injection as well). You will sacrifice a bit of fuel economy but reliability will be outstanding. Dodge HEMI is a reliable engine along with the Ford V8 and of course Toyota.

We are in a unique time. The emission standards outpaced the current technology to meet those standards. As a result, manufacturers had to rush technology to the market without fully testing them. Part of why diesels are so expensive over their gasoline counterparts is reserve for warranty repairs.

Just my .02 cents - good luck with your search for a new tow vehicle.

[Arcticfox]

Originally Posted by Joe_Julie

I make my living off the remanufacture of injectors for diesel engines. Let's just say times have been good. In order to meet very strict emission standards diesel engines are fitted with numerous pieces of emission equipment that have extremely high failure rates. This is due to their lack of testing and development prior to a rushed launched to market (customers are the beta testers). This includes Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) coolers, Urea injection after-treatment and injectors that have tolerances measured in microns that will fail with the slightest bit of contamination. The new Ford 6.7L Power Stroke has a replacement kit that is over $6,000 that includes the entire fuel system, lines, pump, injectors, etc. due to contamination issues. It's under warranty right now, but the day after warranty guess who will pay for that?

I would not own a diesel powered vehicle right now. Instead, I would pick a turbocharged V6 such as the Eco Boost, but as a first choice would simply choose a good V8 with standard fuel injection (I'd stay away from Gasoline Direct Injection as well). You will sacrifice a bit of fuel economy but reliability will be outstanding. Dodge HEMI is a reliable engine along with the Ford V8 and of course Toyota.

We are in a unique time. The emission standards outpaced the current technology to meet those standards. As a result, manufacturers had to rush technology to the market without fully testing them. Part of why diesels are so expensive over their gasoline counterparts is reserve for warranty repairs.

Just my .02 cents - good luck with your search for a new tow vehicle.

Interesting Post Joe. Thanks for taking the time to jump in. I know nothing about this other than my neighbour just had his Duramax in the local dealership as they told him he needed the injectors changed. The bill was $8,356.00 (CDN). I almost fell over when he told me. His truck had 147,000 KM on it so about 90,000 miles. That seems like a major issue for an engine with that few miles on it.

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by BillfromWI

[FONT="Times New Roman"]Our 2014 FC25FB tongue weight, ready to travel with about 50% water and empty holding tanks is 1252 lbs. For some reason newer FB 25s have very heavy tongues. I did not know this when I ordered its first TV, a 2013 F150 Supercab, 3.5 Ecoboost, 4x4, 144” WB, max payload, max tow (3.73 axles).

~~ stuff deleted ~~

Not to say you weren't overloaded or pushing it with that kind of tongue weight plus cargo, but I'm pretty sure you didn't have the max-payload (called HD Payload by Ford) Supercab. That would've only been available on the 8' box long-wheelbase (163") configuration of a Supercab (or regular cab) or the 6.5' box configuration of a Supercrew w/ the 157" wheelbase.