Ram 1500 EcoDiesel or Ford F-150 EcoBoost?

[WestieHouse]

Originally Posted by rostam

Just so you know, Fiat-Chrysler is being sued for emission problems with EcoDiesel engine. There is a possibility that Fiat-Chrysler will buy back all the vehicles with EcoDiesel engine, like what VW did. This may or may not affect you, but its good to know and take into consideration when making a decision.

I have towed my 23' FB over 30,000 miles with a 2014 top of the line Summit Grand Cherokee Eco diesel. This is the same engine as in the Ram. Though we love the aesthetics and driving/towing experience (when not in the repair shop) the recent EPA action has dampened our experience.

Backround: We have owned 2 VW Jetta diesels (2009 and 2011) and are finally getting resolution after several years of uncertainty and a few expensive and inconvenient emission systems breakdowns with thise vehicles.

Our difficulty with the Jeep GC Ecodiesel began within months of purchase and the car met the Lemon Law requirements for our state when it was in the shop over 30 days the first year for emissions systems repairs due to faulty design. I have used 7 different Chrysler dealers for service in 2 states and 2 Canadian provinces. I can describe and document incompetent (at best) service at the 5 USA dealerships (using incorrect oil, over filling with oil, attempting to sell me outdated DEF, advising me of a needed power steering replacement ($2,000) despite (a) failing to observe that probkem two weeks earlier at the same shop (they only noticed this after I complained to FCA in Detroit and returned for replacement to correct oil and a new diesel particulate filter), and (b) an independent evaluation by another highly qualified mechanic that there was nothing wrong with my power steering system.

Service staff at Chrsler dealerships do not understand diesel engines, often giving incorrect information contrary to the manufacturers owners manual. Like "the oil type cannot affect the diesel particulate filter" despite explicit warnings in the manual to the contrary. This resulted in two separate $950 repairs to replace the DPF within 15 months. I did get reimbursement for 2nd DPF after filing a complaint with FCA in Detroit.

There have been numerous recalls for reprogramming the software and often resulting in adverse unintended consequences like lower mpg (10-20% lower than when first purchased) or settings on other electronics not functioning properly.

The notorious check engine light has come on numerous times requiring trips to the dealer while out of state. This has happened on at least 4 occasions within 200 miles and sometimes within hours of receiving service. Dealers often do not know simple things like the procedure to reset the oil change mileage monitor after performing an oil change.

There is much more I could say, but this provides sufficient information to prompt serious consideration by a prospective buyer.

All service has been done on or before scheduled maintenance per the manual and all service gas been performed by authorized Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep dealerships.

A review of other Eco diesel forums will show mine is not a unique experience.

I recently test drove the F-150 and enjoyed it. I definitely would avoid a FCA/Chrysler product especially if it were an Eco diesel.

[SCOTTinNJ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpcJJxhvPWU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zSB2VYCYr0&t=572s

[pappy19]

My wife has a 2007 Lincoln LT, a fancy F150, with the 5.4 and 3.73 rear end, plus tow package. I upgraded the intake with a K&N and a MagnaFlow duel exhaust. But the main thing was a Mike's 5 Star 89 octane performance/tow programmer and, a Transgo Tugger tyranny upgrade. This truck is a towing monster and solo gets 16mpg. The power and torque is fantastic. All of the upgrades total less than $800. You can't expect a 5.4 with a 3.10 or 3.55 rear end to perform like a 3.73. Also, the F150 is THE most popular truck on the road today, for a reason. Dependable, tough, and powerful with great mileage. The new 10 speed and 3.5 Ecoboost engine is a proven winner.

[tewfiks]

I was in the exact same situation you are in. We had a Toyota Tundra, but our 31' Airstream was too much weight for it. Was initially excited to purchase the Dodge eco diesel but after looking at its specs I quickly realized that pulling the AS was not going to be an option. Then I researched the Nissan Titan with the 5.0L Cummins turbodiesel and pulled the trigger on the purchase 9 months ago. I can tell you first hand this truck has more than ample power and torque to pull a 10000 pound trailer. We have traveled over 3000 miles pulling the trailer through elevation without a hitch. The truck is very well designed and remarkably comfortable. It is not a Ford F250 diesel, but is about $20000 less.

[WestieHouse]

"We have traveled over 3000 miles pulling the trailer through elevation without a hitch."

Hmm, that's quite a feat! (lol)

[Rgentum]

Arcticefox wrote re the Ram/Cummins 2500:

"We travel extensively with our trailer, about 40 - 50,000 miles a year and have been very impressed with the F150. Sure a 250/diesel would give us a few things we don't have now like engine breaks and more power, but for us the additional benefits are not worth the negatives.
Negatives like a truck that will no longer fit into Auto car washes and parking structures, not to mention the pain it is in parking lots. The diesel is about 12,000 premium (in Canada) and the fuel cost 25% more. The payloads of an F250 are right around 2,000 lbs depending on the trim package and that is just not enough of a difference in my books. The maintenance is about 4 fold on a per mile costing and that needs to be taken into consideration. I just don't know how one can get a payback over the life of the truck."

My experience in WA with my Ram/Cummins 2500:

1. The Cummins diesel option adds approx. $9K over the cost of a Ram 2500 gas (at retail) --- actually less as the truck is typically discounted approx. 20%, meaning that the Cummins diesel option after discount adds approx $7.2K. (I paid approx. $55K for mine, which retailed at $65K.)
2. At my local Costco, currently regular gas is $2.49 & diesel is $2.55. Comparatively, sometimes diesel is a little more; sometimes it is a little less.
3. I agree that the truck is large, heavy, & somewhat awkward; parking is problematic.
4. The routine maintenance is oil & oil filter change every 7.5K miles at approx. $100 and that plus fuel filter change every 15K miles at approx. $300. Both of these can be reduced approx. 50% by doing the work oneself. For example, the Cummins takes 3 gal of oil, approx. $35 at Costco. I bought a 7 yr/100K mile warranty contract for approx. $2K, which should take care of any non-routine maintenance. When the warranty expires, chances are I'll trade in the truck for another Ram/Cummins.
5. I have no actual facts about this but my subjective impression from my experience shopping for used Rams is that the 2500 diesel depreciates significantly less over time than either a 2500 gas or a 1500 --- in other words, the Ram/Cummins holds its value significantly better. Of course, this is of no benefit until you sell it.
6. Again, my subjective impression: the Ram/Cummins 2500 is a remarkable towing machine, although I acknowledge that I use it solely to tow my FC 27 & to get supplies from Home Depot. If I also wanted to use it as a daily driver, I would reconsider. It's significantly larger and heavier than a Honda Accord or a Toyota Camry or my Acura coupe, which I use to get around town.

[cabinetmaker]

Originally Posted by lovetokite

how do you explain that the Ecodiesel has MORE torque than the Hemi?

http://www.trucktrend.com/truck-revi...-vs-ecodiesel/

Every test I have read and video I have watched on the eco diesels said they were great for fuel mileage in a full size truck but towing was not that impressive. Do some research...google is your friend.

Copied this from your trucktrend review above:

Frankly, if you regularly tow more than 6,000 or 7,000 pounds, or haul a payload more than 2,000 pounds on a routine basis, you’re probably better off with a 3/4 or 1-ton truck. Yes, on-paper, 1/2-tons can handle loads this heavy, but it’s much less of a burden on the larger models and gives you a lot more wiggle room if you find yourself having to tow or haul heavier loads.

So...according to trucktrend review all airstreams except the single axle models are better towed by 3/4 or 1 tons! Something I happen to agree with.

[silverlabs]

I have pulled both a 25FC and a 28FC with both a 2011 F150 and a 2015 F150 3.5 EcoBoost. As Arcticfox mentions does an excellent job. I've pulled through many mountains and have had no issues. Put several hundred thousand miles on the two F150's with no issues. I am in a 2017 F250 now. Love it's power and tows wonderfully. In a parking lot, yes bigger. But for long trips, rides and pulls great. As far as cost of the diesel you can check any resale site you want and the diesels hold their value. Yes you pay more initially but can get it back when sale so nets out.

As far as maintenance I negotiated a great price on a full maintenance pkg (Oil,filter, air filter, water separator, fuel filters, wiper replacement, tire rotation and DEF and a couple of other small items) for every 7500 miles up to 200,000 miles for about $2000. Basically making full maintenance way under $100 per time. With that, I am not too worried about the maintenance cost. As with anything, research and negotiation can get you where you want or need to be. Good luck on your decision. The F150 3.5 EcoBoost is a great combination. The 10 speed hasn't been proven yet as just been out for short time but should be a great addition to an already solid combination.

Chuck

[n2916s]

If you have a Nissan dealership nearby, you might take a peek at the Titan XD. Mine, with a Cummins diesel, 12k plus tow rating, 1800# payload with the SV mid-range trim was $43.5k out the door tags and taxes included.

The gas version gets an additional 500# of payload, lower routine maintenance costs and should be mid to high $30's.

Might be worth a look.

[Mergatroyd]

Originally Posted by n2916s

If you have a Nissan dealership nearby, you might take a peek at the Titan XD. Mine, with a Cummins diesel, 12k plus tow rating, 1800# payload with the SV mid-range trim was $43.5k out the door tags and taxes included.

The gas version gets an additional 500# of payload, lower routine maintenance costs and should be mid to high $30's.

Might be worth a look.

Yes, I did test drive a Titan. A very nice truck with a mid-sized Cummins diesel. My impression was that it's a little too big for the wife. It seems bigger than a normal half ton.

Best feature is that 100,000 bumper to bumper warranty!

[jamieb1086]

Any comments on the Chevy Colorado half ton with the smaller Duramax diesel? I tow with a 2500 Duramax and it is indeed large. But I use it mostly for towing my 25' Flying Cloud and I know I never will have to worry!

I did test drive the RAM 1500 with the ecodiesel, and boy that's a nice driving truck, but after reading all this stuff about it, sheesh!

[Mergatroyd]

Originally Posted by jamieb1086

Any comments on the Chevy Colorado half ton with the smaller Duramax diesel? I tow with a 2500 Duramax and it is indeed large. But I use it mostly for towing my 25' Flying Cloud and I know I never will have to worry!

I did test drive the RAM 1500 with the ecodiesel, and boy that's a nice driving truck, but after reading all this stuff about it, sheesh!

I think that of all the 1/2 ton pickups the Ram 1500 is the most supermarket friendly (easiest for the wife to take to the supermarket). It has the best turning radius, and the 4 point air suspension is really cool. You can lower the entire the entire truck for easy entry or jack it way up for off-road. The diesel could be a bit bigger but it does have the low-end torque that I like. But the Ford seems like it has better payload and towability, which is important because the Ram is pretty much maxed out pulling a 28. Haven't looked at GMC yet.

This is a huge dilemma for trailering. You want a humongous tow vehicle to get you to your site, but once you plop your trailer down for 2 months you want something to drive around town. (No, I can't see myself in a class A.)

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by Arcticfox

We travel extensively with our trailer, about 40 - 50,000 miles a year and have been very impressed with the F150. Sure a 250/diesel would give us a few things we don't have now like engine breaks and more power, but for us the additional benefits are not worth the negatives.
Negatives like a truck that will no longer fit into Auto car washes and parking structures, not to mention the pain it is in parking lots. The diesel is about 12,000 premium (in Canada) and the fuel cost 25% more. The payloads of an F250 are right around 2,000 lbs depending on the trim package and that is just not enough of a difference in my books. The maintenance is about 4 fold on a per mile costing and that needs to be taken into consideration. I just don't know how one can get a payback over the life of the truck.

Again, this is just my .02 and others may feel differently.

By the way - I would be surprised if your 28' actually bulks out at 7600 lbs ready to camp. Ours scales in a 6843 ready to camp on a 3 month trip and that's including our Pro-Pride hitch.

Hope this helps

Doug

And the Prop-Pride makes up about 500 lbs of that. :-)
A bet you guys buy that hitch because of what the name implies. :-)

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by Mergatroyd

I need a new tow vehicle for my 28. Of course I want a 3/4 ton with a giant diesel engine, but the wife thinks it's too big for her to drive. I got her to agree to a 1/2 ton pick-up. So now I'm looking at the Ram EcoDiesel and the Ford EcoBoost. Does anyone have experience towing a 27 to 30 with either of these two vehicles?

You came this far don't wimp out now !
Go for that 3/4 ton diesel. Your wife will love it, thats a lot horses to enjoy and you get used to its size in no time. Your 28' tongue weight will eat up a good part of the payload on a 1/2 ton.

[Mergatroyd]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

You came this far don't wimp out now !
Go for that 3/4 ton diesel. Your wife will love it, thats a lot horses to enjoy and you get used to its size in no time. Your 28' tongue weight will eat up a good part of the payload on a 1/2 ton.

Now you got me wanting to look at 3/4 tons again. Let me go tell the wife.

[SCOTTinNJ]

If you are looking at a 3/4 ton diesel, Just make the jump to 1 ton. They ride the same and you'll have real payload.

[MelGoddard]

Originally Posted by Arcticfox

We travel extensively with our trailer, about 40 - 50,000 miles a year and have been very impressed with the F150. Sure a 250/diesel would give us a few things we don't have now like engine breaks and more power, but for us the additional benefits are not worth the negatives.
Negatives like a truck that will no longer fit into Auto car washes and parking structures, not to mention the pain it is in parking lots. The diesel is about 12,000 premium (in Canada) and the fuel cost 25% more. The payloads of an F250 are right around 2,000 lbs depending on the trim package and that is just not enough of a difference in my books. The maintenance is about 4 fold on a per mile costing and that needs to be taken into consideration. I just don't know how one can get a payback over the life of the truck.

Again, this is just my .02 and others may feel differently.

By the way - I would be surprised if your 28' actually bulks out at 7600 lbs ready to camp. Ours scales in a 6843 ready to camp on a 3 month trip and that's including our Pro-Pride hitch.

Hope this helps

Doug

What you said about the negatives, are the reasons that I went to the Ford F-150,3.5L Ecoboost.
Higher fuel cost, maintenance, and so forth; plus the Ford gave me ,more of the configuration that I wanted.

Pulling a 30' FC with an average tow weight of 8000 +/- a little, doesn't seem to faze the Ford.
Regarding tongue weight, my manual states that it is 800+ lbs.
Well, like many other owners, my Shurlite scale shows an average of 1100 +/- lbs. EEch! It still tows fine.
I believe that I made a good choice.

[Herm26U]

Originally Posted by Mergatroyd

I need a new tow vehicle for my 28. Of course I want a 3/4 ton with a giant diesel engine, but the wife thinks it's too big for her to drive. I got her to agree to a 1/2 ton pick-up. So now I'm looking at the Ram EcoDiesel and the Ford EcoBoost. Does anyone have experience towing a 27 to 30 with either of these two vehicles?

I bought a 2014 Ram EcoDiesel six months ago with 30K miles. I now have 42K miles and it's never seen the repair shop. I tow a 2017 AS 27FB Int'l Serenity loaded with all the crap my wife could stuff in it plus Hensley hitch and I'm thrilled at the performance of the EcoDiesel and the truck itself. I did add the air bags ($100.00) per recommendations on this site and I'm sitting level with about 25lbs in the air bags.

I'm getting 12-13 mpg pulling the AS where my friends get MUCH worse pulling their trailer with an F-150. I just installed a Green Diesel Engineering ECU and the from-stop-hesitation is gone and my mileage has greatly improved. I'm getting 25+ mpg without the trailer and 15-16 mpg with. I can't say enough good about my experience with my Ram 1500 Longhorn Edition EcoDiesel; it deserves some serious consideration. I drove a F250 King Ranch w/ Powerstroke for years and pulled a 5th wheel. I don't feel like a gave up a thing moving to the 1/2 ton Dodge. I installed a Bedslide too, highly recommended truck bed accessory that turns your entire bed into a drawer!

Good luck shopping!

[KJRitchie]

I don't have the Ram Ecodiesel but the Ram 2500 Cummins. I'm a first time diesel owner and while the Cummins power and exhaust brake make a great towing experience, diesel fuel is a pain. Diesel pump handles are dirty often so I wear a disposable glove. Then the diesel pumps are mounted on the end islands so you have to wait for cars gassing up. If you find a truck island the large nozzles often pump too much despite setting the handle at the lowest rate and you get diesel over spill. I was at one truck stop and could only pump less than 2 gallons before I gave up and went down the road to find auto diesel pumps. Then you have to mess with DEF. When you tow you get about a 1000 miles per gallon of DEF. I purchase bulk DEF as dealer DEF and autoshop 2 1/2g jugs are expensive ($15 per 2 1/2 gal and you will need more. Then there is biodiesel. I haven't had any issues with biodiesel. At every 15k miles you have to replace your fuel filters. I'm getting ready to replace my 2 fuel filters, $85 for the set, plus labor. You consistently read diesel owner reports about DEF issues, emission control failures or bad diesel affecting their trucks.

The only downside of the EB F150 is you should use premium fuel when towing although many here use regular unleaded. Premium is higher than diesel but that can change in the future. I remember a couple years ago diesel was $1/gallon higher than regular unleaded.

My payload is 2086lbs on my Ram 2500 Cummins. Typical F150 EB 3.5 is 1700lbs. Ram Ecodiesel is 1200-1300lbs. An Airstream 28 tongue weight will be likely 1100lb.

Kelvin

[Howard L.]

Originally Posted by Mergatroyd

Now you got me wanting to look at 3/4 tons again. Let me go tell the wife.

Frank is right. Don't go small. Get the 3/4 or full ton truck with the diesel engine for that 28. If you were pulling a 25 or smaller, then, yes, go 1/2 ton. Your tongue weight on that 28 will be 1000 pounds plus when you get the trailer loaded for a trip. Just don't put yourself in a position to have to crank down all kinds of pressure on that WD hitch to make it all work. That just puts more weight and load on the trailer. Take your wife to the auto dealer and show her the springs/suspension and brakes on the 1/2 ton truck then the 3/4. Then tell her grocery store parking lots have lots of room. Problem should be solved and you will never look back at a smaller TV.
PS: My wife drives a small infinity QX 70. She loves driving the 3/4 Duramax by itself or towing the 30 FC. Says the big mirrors, sitting higher that every body around her is great.