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Old 01-03-2015, 03:50 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
SAE J2807 is also fraught with assumptions not always pertaining to what a vehicle can do.
Yea, maybe so, but it would seem to me that any kind of standard is better than the manufacturers pulling numbers out of their orifice.
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Old 01-03-2015, 04:01 PM   #16
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SAE J2807 is also fraught with assumptions not always pertaining to what a vehicle can do.
Before J2807 auto manufacturers could pull a number out of thin and and slap it on their vehicles. Now, they have to pass a set of well defined standardized tests. IMO, this seems like a big step in the right direction.

J2807 tests the following:

1) Cooling capability on a long highway upgrade modeled on the Davis Dam grade on Arizona SR 68;

2) Launch and acceleration performance on a level road and a 12 percent upgrade;

3) Combined handling performance – understeer and trailer sway;

4) Combined braking performance – stopping distance and parking brake-hold on grade; and

5) Structural performance for the vehicle and hitch or hitch receiver.

J2807 assumes the following:

a) For light-duty full-size pickups (GVWR < 8,500 lbs.), SAE J2807 assumes that the tow vehicle includes any options with higher than 33 percent penetration;

b) It assumes there is both a driver and passenger in the vehicle, each weighing 150 pounds;

c) It assumes that tow vehicles also include up to 70 pounds of aftermarket hitch equipment (where applicable); and

d) For conventional trailer towing, SAE J2807 assumes that 10 percent of the trailer weight is on the tongue.

The tests seems comprehensive to me. I'm sure it can be improved upon, and will be improved as time goes on -- I'd say the 150# driver and passenger is unrealistic.

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And it is the wheel/tire ratings that matter. The others are more in the way of suggestion.
May I ask how you came up with this opinion? Almost, any user manual I've read clearly states the opposite -- they are not suggestions.
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Old 01-03-2015, 04:09 PM   #17
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I will bet everything is fine, I sure wouldn't be afraid of it, and I darn sure wouldn't even think about changing the ratios, keep them, I would like to try a higher ratio,and run the engine slower..I know the new 3/4 t rams have coils on the rear??
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Old 01-03-2015, 04:10 PM   #18
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I will bet everything is fine, I sure wouldn't be afraid of it, and I darn sure wouldn't even think about changing the ratios, keep them, I would like to try a higher ratio,and run the engine slower..I know the new 3/4 t rams have coils on the rear??
Yes, they are coil. Mine is leaf.
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Old 01-03-2015, 04:27 PM   #19
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Question for owners of late model Ram 2500 6.7 Cummins Diesel Owners

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Originally Posted by rostam View Post
Before J2807 auto manufacturers could pull a number out of thin and and slap it on their vehicles. Now, they have to pass a set of well defined standardized tests. IMO, this seems like a big step in the right direction.

J2807 tests the following:

1) Cooling capability on a long highway upgrade modeled on the Davis Dam grade on Arizona SR 68;

2) Launch and acceleration performance on a level road and a 12 percent upgrade;

3) Combined handling performance – understeer and trailer sway;

4) Combined braking performance – stopping distance and parking brake-hold on grade; and

5) Structural performance for the vehicle and hitch or hitch receiver.

J2807 assumes the following:

a) For light-duty full-size pickups (GVWR < 8,500 lbs.), SAE J2807 assumes that the tow vehicle includes any options with higher than 33 percent penetration;

b) It assumes there is both a driver and passenger in the vehicle, each weighing 150 pounds;

c) It assumes that tow vehicles also include up to 70 pounds of aftermarket hitch equipment (where applicable); and

d) For conventional trailer towing, SAE J2807 assumes that 10 percent of the trailer weight is on the tongue.

The tests seems comprehensive to me. I'm sure it can be improved upon, and will be improved as time goes on -- I'd say the 150# driver and passenger is unrealistic.



May I ask how you came up with this opinion? Almost, any user manual I've read clearly states the opposite -- they are not suggestions.

Tires and wheels and axle ratings are the thing. It is the only legal requirement. For those who currently or have previously used these trucks to make a living. This is what DOT checks. What the scale house looks at.
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Old 01-03-2015, 04:32 PM   #20
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Sounds like you want to upgrade to one of them BMW'S with all wheel drive and them 130 mile brakes!
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Old 01-03-2015, 04:45 PM   #21
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J2807 looks good. But it won't tell you what you can do unless you are using the exact same type of trailer they do in their tests. Or hitch. It hitch receiver. We are not. For our purposes there will be trucks thus defined that "can't " and that will ludicrous.

What one must understand is that testing of this sort, while it appears objective, eliminates whole areas of questions, concerns and what would have been refutations were they included.

The short version is that the OEMs want you in highly profitable vehicles. Your safety is not part of that equation. That is a mask when whole classes of vehicles are excluded. It would involve more work on their part, true, but it would also lead to greater confusion as continual exceptions to statements would arise.

RVers are a small class of truck users. And aero, low CG travel trailers are thus an invisible segment.

Folks say it will be a way to compare one truck to another. It will be barely that, if even.

When a conservative number of travel trailer owners is figured at 95% who have no clue of how good a hitch lash-up can be that includes the crowd here. Can't be bothered to ask, and can't be bothered to spend some time at a scale. Etc. The small changes add up in a way that is uncanny.

For that majority which can't be bothered then J2807 gives the appearance of respectability.

There are older threads on this where discussion is in greater detail.
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Old 01-03-2015, 04:56 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
J2807 looks good. But it won't tell you what you can do unless you are using the exact same type of trailer they do in their tests. Or hitch. It hitch receiver. We are not. For our purposes there will be trucks thus defined that "can't " and that will ludicrous.

What one must understand is that testing of this sort, while it appears objective, eliminates whole areas of questions, concerns and what would have been refutations were they included.

The short version is that the OEMs want you in highly profitable vehicles. Your safety is not part of that equation. That is a mask when whole classes of vehicles are excluded. It would involve more work on their part, true, but it would also lead to greater confusion as continual exceptions to statements would arise.

RVers are a small class of truck users. And aero, low CG travel trailers are thus an invisible segment.

Folks say it will be a way to compare one truck to another. It will be barely that, if even.

When a conservative number of travel trailer owners is figured at 95% who have no clue of how good a hitch lash-up can be that includes the crowd here. Can't be bothered to ask, and can't be bothered to spend some time at a scale. Etc. The small changes add up in a way that is uncanny.

For that majority which can't be bothered then J2807 gives the appearance of respectability.

There are older threads on this where discussion is in greater detail.
I would say it looks great. I am not clear on your issues with J2807, but I strongly suggest you write your concerns/suggestions to SAE. My experience tells me NOTHING starts out in a perfect shape. It is gradually improved and refined. Nothing wrong with that.
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Old 01-03-2015, 05:59 PM   #23
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How clear must I make it? There will be those on here whose consideration of a half ton will be told it can't do it. When it can, and admirably.

Suggest you do some reading. What we all of us did in the 60s and 70s and how it was and is still done.
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Old 01-03-2015, 06:23 PM   #24
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Let me preface this by saying that this my first year towing an AS. We have a 2014 25' FC behind a stock 2011 Ram 2500 6.7 cummins, standard towing package. Not sure of the gearing ratio. I bought this truck with 12,000 miles on it and now have 26,000, just getting broken in. On a 3200 mile trip thru the Canadian maritimes in September we averaged 13 for the entire trip. Individual tanks of fuel went from 14.4 to 12.2 Top speed around 65. Heading west next summer/fall and thinking that the truck will be great on the downhills in Idaho. I am somewhat disappointed in the mileage but I going live with it. This truck should run for years. I can dig out the gear ratios if you want. Jim
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Old 01-04-2015, 01:59 AM   #25
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The post 07 Diesel emission devices cost quite a bit of economy. Especially the loss to the Particulate filter re-gen.


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Old 01-04-2015, 09:19 AM   #26
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It sure did,the pre 07's cummins did get way better fuel mileage,but I sure like the newer automatic with 6 speed,and the more power , I do not know how long they will last! the old 3 speed plus overdrive did not do that good under towing a big 5th wheel 60,000 miles the torque converter failed. Time will tell,I only use mine for towing the as, I don't drive around town or on short trips on purpose...
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Old 01-04-2015, 11:16 AM   #27
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I have a 2009 Dodge 4x4 2500 with 3:42 ratio I drive 65 MPH towing a 30 foot 2005 classic from Fl to Ma we averaged 14.5 MPG +/-. I have a 99 Dodge with 4:11 That truck averaged 13 MPG towing a car trailer Both are diesels The 09 is such an improved truck 6 speed automatic and exhaust brake and the tow haul feature make it a pleasure to drive it when towing .
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Old 01-04-2015, 11:20 AM   #28
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We own a 2012 SB 4X4 2500 Ram. Rear ratio: 3.42 --Rated to tow 17k#. 6.7 Cummins. MPG: Towing-14+/- 0.2, Open road: 22

Truck is relatively oblivious to the AS being towed.
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