Question about 4x4 TV ...

[overlander64]

Greetings Tom!

Originally Posted by TomR

Kevin...either you got a "lemon" or you abuse your vehicle ...I am assuming you got a lemon and something was not "right" with your 4 wheel "system" from the start.

Tom

Neither the Suburban nor the K1500 Silverado were ever abused -- in fact each was serviced every 3,000 miles by either my selling dealer, or the GMC dealer that my family has patronized for more than 50 years. The four wheel drive systems are the issue -- I have spent nothing on other systems on the Suburban other than regular maintenance. If the Suburban had been a lemon, it would have been traded at under 50,000 miles just like the K1500 Silverado that had many, many more problems beyond its perpetually inoperative four-wheel-drive system. I fully expect to hit 300,000 to 350,000 miles before my Suburban will need to be re-engined.

I started out towing with full-size convertibles and station wagons, and have never really felt the need of four-wheel-drive. I have tried the four-wheel-drive now, in three different vehicles, and have only once been in a place where it would have been necessary in 29 years of towing 18' or larger RV trailers. The only time that I willingly boondock is when I am on Caravan or at a Rally -- otherwise I seek out a minimum of 30-AMP electric where I park my Airstream.

Kevin

[Gene]

If I counted right, the ECM for the transfer case failed 11 times. I don't think abuse would be the cause—bad part never redesigned by manufacturer. If there were abuse a lot of other things would have broken before the module. Of course, if every time Kevin has a chance he uses a hammer on the module because of some psychological problem, then it would be abuse. Maybe it's that crazy neighbor down the block.

Kevin, you have a lot of patience. I would have written to GM years ago and demanding a real solution. Once fixed for the 4th or 5th time, I would have sold it.

Gene

[JackMac]

In the aviation maintenance business, after a part or module fails more than once, we start looking for what caused the part to fail. There may not have been anything wrong with the electronic control module for the four wheel drive transfer case, something else may have been smoking it.

I have never had any trouble with any of my Chevrolet K1500's as far as the 4x4 feature, and it has been very useful when pulling the Airstream in damp grassy conditions and also in other circumstances.

We do all know never to operate in 4 wheel drive when on pavement?????

[Gene]

Jack, whether or not you can operate a 4wd on dry pavement depends on the system. Some you can, some you can't.

Gene

[Barry Parkof]

4 weeks ago, I picked up my new tow vehicle. It is an 09 GMC Sierra 1500 4x4 with a locking rear. Prior to that I had an 07 Silverado, and although I never had any problems, I always thought that it would be nice to have a 4 wheel drive, just in case. I will be leaving early Dec. for about a month, and will be doing some beach front camping, and I just feel more comfortable knowing that I have that extra bit of traction if I should need it. Interesting enough, my Silverado had a 4 speed gear box and was rated at 6800 lbs towing capacity, and the new Sierra has the same engine, & rear, but has the 6 speed gear box, which raises the tow capacity to 9500 lbs.

[hampstead38]

After I get stuck (which happens every so often), I swear that I'll get a 4WD. Then, time passes and memories fade... until I get stuck again.

Unlike Gene, I'm more of a "buy and hold" guy. In the past 20 years, I have had two trucks (not counting our recent vintage purchase). In the same span of time, I would wager my brother has had 15 to 18 trucks.

Here's my thought... if you are going back and forth to generally the same places, you'll learn relatively quickly whether or not you need a 4WD. If you are "rambling" and going into numerous unknown situations, 4WD is a comfort. I wouldn't have a 4WD as a daily commuter (unless I was working in the woods again). If I can't get there on a "hard road" with 2WD and vbar chains... I ought to have the good sense to stay home. Pulling a trailer into mystery campsite, however, is another kettle of fish.

[ROBERT CROSS]

OL64

The transfer case should have been inspected/overhauled after the second ecm failure. Do believe there was a good deal of human error involved here.

[bob34787]

Originally Posted by Goin camping

Since you live in Nevada and are probably surrounded by desert on all four sides...

If you want piece of mind you may want to get 4X4. Many of your state parks are dirt or sand and sooner or later you'll be pulling onto a sand or dirt area. Thats when the 4X4 earns it's keep.

Our F250 4X4 diesel gets 17.9 empty and 14.8 while towing. We've used the 4X4 feature often as we boondock in the desert but we have had to use it when we didn't expect to also. Parking in a dirt lot on the highway to run into the store and other similar places.

Good luck with your decision.

what year is your f250? I have an 08 with the 6.4 and can never get over 11 mpg, empty, pulling the trailer, 10 mph or 100 mph the mileage never changes.

[63air]

For me a 4x4 is a necessity as I need it for the farm and use it quite often. I also do a lot of fishing and it is very handy on many of the boat ramps. As far as the trailer goes I don't ever remember needing it but I am glad to have it if I do. Kevin I'm just curious, but could you have used the lemon law in Illinois to get your vehicle replaced?

[thecatsandi]

Originally Posted by AnnieD

I am not considering a 4x4 TV becuase of the money added to the price of the truck ... AND because i wont be in any ice and snow or bad weather...and i am certainly not going off road with it.

my question is..... do i NEED 4x4 for any reason if i am not going to be in bad weather? wont towing with it on bring down the fuel mileage?

i want to keep the price of this truck down as much as i can but i dont want to be stupid about anything.

at this point i am trying to get an idea of what i have to spend to have peace of mind that when i am towing... the truck will be able to do its job with no worries.

i am leaning towards a diesel... to keep for a long time.
is dodge better than ford for that?

thanks for your opinions.

I got "stuck" on dry short grass backing into my spot at last years area 33 rally. I also got "stuck" turning my truck and trailer around in a level but wet field. Engaging 4 wheel drive got me out of the situation.
You have to be careful what is called 4 wheel drive. This usually means power is being applied to all four wheels but they are not necessarily going to drive all four wheels. Depending on how the rear differential is set up one wheel can still spin and the other do nothing. I have been told the Ford front differential only locks one side so you can turn while in four wheel drive. Not sure I completely believe this one. I have driving evidence to the contrary.
I had a limited slip differential from the factory thinking it would lock up when I needed it. That turned out to be wrong. I burned up three clutch packs. The last one was out of warranty so I replaced it with a selectable locking rear end. This was not cheap but works great!

[AnnieD]

Thanks again everyone for your comments.... i am starting to see the value of a 4x4. its more about not having to worry about getting in and out of somewhere... peace of mind.
aside from Kevins horror story i do see the need for it now. i will most likely be going to places i have not been and i dont know what kind i will encounter.

honestly.... i dont WHAT i would do if i didnt have this airstream community to answer my questions.
i bet i would be making ALL the wrong decisions. LOL

but then.... i am sure people managed JUST fine without this....before computers.

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by thecatsandi

You have to be careful what is called 4 wheel drive. This usually means power is being applied to all four wheels but they are not necessarily going to drive all four wheels.

Yes there are many variations and technologies. The newer 4 wheel powered BMW x3 for example has the ability to transfer over 90% of it's power to one wheel if that wheel is the only one that has traction.

[overlander64]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

Kevin, you have a lot of patience. I would have written to GM years ago and demanding a real solution. Once fixed for the 4th or 5th time, I would have sold it.

Gene

Three different dealers (all of whom have been in business in excess of 30 years) have replaced the Electronic Control Modues, and each has had the complete repair history that I carry in a 3-ring binder stashed under the back seat. The Zone Rep has been called in twice and offered very little to me or the dealer's service department.

Quite honestly, I don't feel the need of four-wheel-drive, I authorized replacement of the defective part so often thinking that one time I might need it to be operable. A failed module has never stranded me so I have been able to wait to have it replaced by one of the three dealers that I trust. Over the years, I have been told that the part has been revised three times with little improvement in its longevity. Now, I realize it would be far cheaper to just call either AAA Plus RV -- or Good Sam Roadside Service and have them deal with the situation if I ever get stuck.

A new Suburban is out of the question as a loaded model like the one that I have now is priced way beyond my budget and I never buy someone else's troubles (Used/Pre-Owned). I special ordered my Suburban in January of 1998 so I have the attachment that this vehicle is equipped exactly the way that I wanted. Mechanically there has never been a problem with the motor, transmission, or rear differential; so if I get the four-wheel-drive system defeated or removed my major expense will be gone and forgotten. Unless the Suburban is damaged beyond repair in an accident or storm, I intend to keep it, and replace the motor and/or transmission when they wear out with new Good Wrench parts (I hate trading vehicles and grow very attached to my vehicles so don't mind driving something that is decades old).

Kevin

[WK57ABF]

AnnieD

I would say go with four wheel drive. I wouldn't be without it and use if frequently.

Also it's nice to help out fellow campers stuck on sodden rally fields. Most favours see a bottle of red!!!

John in the UK

[overlander64]

Originally Posted by 63air

Kevin I'm just curious, but could you have used the lemon law in Illinois to get your vehicle replaced?

While I didn't consider it an option since I wouldn't have wanted a new Suburban with the 6.0 Liter (I really like the 7400 VORTEC). My problems didn't begin until the vehicle had over 30,000 miles -- in fact just a bit over 36,000 miles (and two years of service) so it was really beyond the Lemon Law as it stood in Illinois at that time.

Kevin

[Journalist]

I have a relatively steep concrete driveway. Last Christmas, I got stuck on that very concrete in my 2WD Chevy dually with a so-called limited slip differential. It had rained the night before, and I had moved the truck to the bottom of the driveway to make extra room for visiting family to park. The truck simply wouldn't go up the hill on the wet concrete. I never leave the pavement with that truck and thought I'd never need four wheel drive. If I had it to do over again, I'd buy a 4x4.

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, I have been in all kinds of situations with my trailer in tow and I have always got out of it with out using another vehicle. [on ice] There are several driving techniques to help prevent you from getting stuck or getting you unstuck. These are not something I can teach over the internet.

My nephew bought a used Jeep CJ-5 and I bought a new Jeep CJ-5 and although the vehicles were very similar our attitudes were different. Somebody would tell my nephew, "You have a four wheel drive Jeep so you can go anywhere" and he would [with a big smile on his face] say yes I can. When that same statement was said to me, my answer back was that I can only go a little further than I could with a two wheel drive vehicle. Your attitude will get you stuck.

As for all the modules replaced on Kevins truck, my experience with situations like this tells me the dealers/mechanics never fixed the real problem. Any time an electrical part is replaced more than twice, it means that something else is causing the failure. A poor ground, an intermittant short/grounded hot wire, an over charging condition, and even a vibration situation because mounting installation was incorrect can cause multiple failures of a part. This is not a part failure, it is a failure of the mechanics to find the root cause. I have personally repaired similar situations where another dealer [and mechanics in the same dealer as me] gave up and the car was sent to me.