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02-20-2016, 06:27 AM
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#21
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
2019 27' Tommy Bahama
London
, Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,343
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Andrew... many thousands of shorter/lighter Airstreams, in particular.
Actually not shorter and lighter Airstreams. In the 70's and 80's over 80% of production was 31 and 34' Airstreams. People think they were lighter because they look a the brochure weights from the day but those weights did not include options and everything was an option. As well most of those units had more storage space than the current ones so generally going down the road they were heavier than most of today's models.
The folks in this picture have been full timing for close to 20 years now and have always used a 1/2 ton Suburban. I cannot think of another person who has traveled as extensively as they have. Several trips to Mexico, Alaska they even did the Panama Caravan.
Again I hope this helps.
Andrew T
__________________
Andrew Thomson London, Ontario
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions." Tex Johnston, Boeing 707 test pilot
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02-20-2016, 07:06 AM
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#22
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton
, Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
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The practical difference between a 1/2 ton and a 3/4 ton pulling an Airstream is near nothing at all.
Brevi tempore!
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......
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02-20-2016, 07:13 AM
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#23
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
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Welcome Aboard....
OP.....where are you?
Have we skeered you away?
Don't be afraid, it's really not all that complicated.
Asking questions is very important....
Answers here are Free
Correct answers are gained from a combination of experience and a grain of salt.
Bob
BTW.....look for a Dealership with a lot of white on the lot....fleet sales tend to give the staff a better grasp of whats involved with towing a trailer.
__________________
I’m done with ‘adulting’…Let’s go find Bigfoot.
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02-20-2016, 08:03 AM
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#24
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4 Rivet Member
1988 32' Excella
Ojai
, California
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew T
Today brakes on a 1/2 ton are larger for the weight they handle than they are on 3/4's.
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From statements like this, one would assume that 1/2 ton and SUV brakes are better than 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. Why is this trotted out as a fact?
__________________
Dave & MJ
1988 32' Excella 1000 (Beauty)
1999 White Dodge SLT Laramie 3500 Dually, 4x4, 5spd, 5.9 CTD 300k+ (The Beast)
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02-20-2016, 08:25 AM
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#25
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton
, Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
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Powertrain Lessons
I ran the math on late chevy pads and rotors, if memory serves me, the surface area of the front pads (as well as the rotor surface area) is about 13% greater on 3/4 tons over 1/2 tons.
Frankly, for the purpose of towing an Airstream, I doubt that is going to make much of a practical difference.
FWIW, I got 110,000 miles out of my 1/2 ton front pads with a fair amount of material left.
Assuming I am right, which I am pretty sure I am, a 3/4 ton diesel would likely weigh more than 13% more than a 1/2 ton gas, which would kinda make Andrew's claim correct.
Brevi tempore!
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......
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02-20-2016, 10:40 AM
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#26
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Rivet Master
1998 30' Excella 1000
Livingston
, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS
Hi, this is correct for a naturally aspirated engine, but not for a turbo charged, super charged, or blown engine.
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Quite true. I should have added that qualification. Thanks.
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02-20-2016, 03:12 PM
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#27
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Vancouver
, British Columbia
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuco
From statements like this, one would assume that 1/2 ton and SUV brakes are better than 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. Why is this trotted out as a fact?
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If you doubt that fact, a quick way to check it would be to look at the vehicle stopping distances from 60 mph.
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02-21-2016, 09:07 AM
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#28
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4 Rivet Member
1988 32' Excella
Ojai
, California
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcl
If you doubt that fact, a quick way to check it would be to look at the vehicle stopping distances from 60 mph.
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Using stopping distance to determine the work done by the brakes requires us to first determine the Kinetic Energy of the vehicles then divide that number by distance traveled. This will give us the energy (in Joules) that each braking system does per foot of stopping distance.
E =(1/2 mv^2)/d
After calculating this, only the Jeep GC was in shouting distance of the worst 3/4 ton truck I looked at. So is this a fact or an untruth?
__________________
Dave & MJ
1988 32' Excella 1000 (Beauty)
1999 White Dodge SLT Laramie 3500 Dually, 4x4, 5spd, 5.9 CTD 300k+ (The Beast)
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02-21-2016, 09:33 AM
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#29
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Rivet Master
2013 31' Classic
billings
, Montana
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,576
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I have already tried the 1/2 ton pickups, I like the 3/4 diesels, they handle the load a lot easier , 1500 rpm at 63 mph
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02-21-2016, 10:13 AM
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#30
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton
, Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
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I don't consider the tongue weight of an Airstream much of a load.
But that is me.
Last trip home from NM to AR I had my toolbox in the back of my 1/2 ton as well as the tongue load. I was quite satisfied with the way it performed.
I am not going to say I drove the speed limit across Texas, but I might have....
Brevi tempore!
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......
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02-21-2016, 10:18 AM
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#31
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton
, Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
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The mechanical ability of all truck brakes is mitigated (and therefore largely equalized) by the antilock brake system. Stopping a modern vehicle has more to do with weight and the ability of the tires to transfer friction to the roadway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuco
Using stopping distance to determine the work done by the brakes requires us to first determine the Kinetic Energy of the vehicles then divide that number by distance traveled. This will give us the energy (in Joules) that each braking system does per foot of stopping distance.
E =(1/2 mv^2)/d
After calculating this, only the Jeep GC was in shouting distance of the worst 3/4 ton truck I looked at. So is this a fact or an untruth?
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Brevi tempore!
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......
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02-21-2016, 10:30 AM
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#32
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Rivet Master
Vintage Kin Owner
N/A
, N/A
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuco
Using stopping distance to determine the work done by the brakes requires us to first determine the Kinetic Energy of the vehicles then divide that number by distance traveled. This will give us the energy (in Joules) that each braking system does per foot of stopping distance.
E =(1/2 mv^2)/d
After calculating this, only the Jeep GC was in shouting distance of the worst 3/4 ton truck I looked at. So is this a fact or an untruth?
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Welcome to the fact-free zone, where gut feeling and hearsay rules.
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02-21-2016, 10:48 AM
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#33
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton
, Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
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Powertrain Lessons
All real "science" is built on practical experience and observation.
It is certain that there is bias for the application of simple observation and experience, but likewise there is bias against simple observation and experience.
Brevi tempore!
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......
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02-21-2016, 10:57 AM
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#34
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton
, Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
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Powertrain Lessons
Engineered;
Experience;
http://youtu.be/nFzu6CNtqec
Both are good, and both have their place.
Frankly, those who discount experience as meaningless engage in a kind of arrogance that incites disdain.
#JustSayin...
Brevi tempore!
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......
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02-21-2016, 12:48 PM
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#35
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Vancouver
, British Columbia
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew T
Today brakes on a 1/2 ton are larger for the weight they handle than they are on 3/4's.
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That was the original quote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuco
From statements like this, one would assume that 1/2 ton and SUV brakes are better than 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. Why is this trotted out as a fact?
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Only better in terms of performance for the vehicle they are installed on. Note the reference to the weight they handle. You are constructing a straw man that says that 1/2 ton brakes are better than 3/4 ton brakes. That wasn't the claim. 3/4 ton brakes have to be more powerful to handle the increased weight of the 3/4 ton vehicle (for the same resulting braking performance). They end up not performing as well, as evidenced by the stopping distances. But they make up some of the difference resulting from the increased vehicle weight, just not all of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcl
If you doubt that fact, a quick way to check it would be to look at the vehicle stopping distances from 60 mph.
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This quick check considers the weight that each brake (1/2 ton or 3/4 ton) is being asked to stop (leaving aside tires, reaction times, etc, for now)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuco
Using stopping distance to determine the work done by the brakes requires us to first determine the Kinetic Energy of the vehicles then divide that number by distance traveled. This will give us the energy (in Joules) that each braking system does per foot of stopping distance.
E =(1/2 mv^2)/d
After calculating this, only the Jeep GC was in shouting distance of the worst 3/4 ton truck I looked at. So is this a fact or an untruth?
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You are suggesting that larger vehicles have more powerful brakes. Agreed. A semi has more braking power than a half ton as well. Not sure why that matters though.
Jeff
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02-21-2016, 08:10 PM
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#36
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4 Rivet Member
1988 32' Excella
Ojai
, California
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcl
That was the original quote.
Only better in terms of performance for the vehicle they are installed on. Note the reference to the weight they handle. You are constructing a straw man that says that 1/2 ton brakes are better than 3/4 ton brakes. That wasn't the claim. 3/4 ton brakes have to be more powerful to handle the increased weight of the 3/4 ton vehicle (for the same resulting braking performance). They end up not performing as well, as evidenced by the stopping distances. But they make up some of the difference resulting from the increased vehicle weight, just not all of it.
This quick check considers the weight that each brake (1/2 ton or 3/4 ton) is being asked to stop (leaving aside tires, reaction times, etc, for now)
You are suggesting that larger vehicles have more powerful brakes. Agreed. A semi has more braking power than a half ton as well. Not sure why that matters though.
Jeff
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Jeff, it is far from a straw man to interpret Andy's post as I did. Please note post 15 of this thread.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...-146333-2.html
This isn't the first time and probably won't be the last that a statement like this is made. I do have to wonder where this person got the idea from though. I don't recall a post where a "truck crowd" person stated his brakes were better than a semi's. If you have a link to that post it would be appreciated. If doing more with less is the best answer to towing an AS, then why all the smoke and mirrors to get the point across? The concept of doing more with less fits the needs of many on here, but please give them straight answers.
__________________
Dave & MJ
1988 32' Excella 1000 (Beauty)
1999 White Dodge SLT Laramie 3500 Dually, 4x4, 5spd, 5.9 CTD 300k+ (The Beast)
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02-21-2016, 08:38 PM
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#37
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4 Rivet Member
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Granbury
, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 412
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We have a Platium Expedition EL 4x2 Eco Boost with heavy trailer tow package and couldn't be happier. We have towed our Airstream with no issues and got great fuel mileage. We have a new 28ft Pendleton coming in a month and plan to hook it to the expedition and go. Get you a good equalizer hitch and all is good. The eco boost has more than enough power to handle any Airstream built today. The built in brake controller works great too. We couldn't be happier.
Oh, by the way...we had a F250 diesel prior. We like the ride and comfort of the SUV much better. it also makes for a better everyday vehicle. You will be surprised what you can get in the back of it with the seats laid down.
Only option we didn't get was the air suspension. With the equilizer hitch they recommend you turn it off anyway. Iv'e heard good and bad reviews so we just got the standard which rides like a dream.
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02-21-2016, 09:01 PM
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#38
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Rivet Master
2013 27' FB International
El Dorado Hills
, California
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,023
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I tow my 27FB with an Expedition. An older model without with a regular V8, less powerful than the ecoboost. Use and Equal-i-zer hitch. No complaints.
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02-22-2016, 07:15 AM
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#39
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Rivet Master
2013 31' Classic
billings
, Montana
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,576
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With the heavier trailers the 3/4 ton pickups sure work better, our 31' classic weighs about 9000 lbs loaded, been there and done that, big load , big truck..
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