Porsche Cayenne, VW Touareg, Audi Q7 owners

[coolbikeman]

Originally Posted by RivetingTrvl

We have never done as much research for a vehicle as we did for the TV for our 2013 Int'l Sig 30FB.

Didn't like the pickup truck route, so we tried all the Euro-diesels & Jeep GC ecodiesel. Had a deposit on a GL-350, when I (the wife) reluctantly decided to bite the bullet and go look at a 2015 F150 EcoBoost. It had the most beautiful panoramic moonroof! It matched the Airstream! It not only had heated seats -- it had AIR-CONDITIONED seats! So much floor room in the back seat for our 2 littles. Not to mention the cool disco colors you can choose for the interior ambient lights.

Not to be all fluffy, the truck comes with awesome bells and whistles that make it super easy for towing our 30' AS -- integrated brake controller and exterior lights.

Ultimately, it was a joint decision to choose the TV, but DH wanted to be certain that I was happy with it and I love driving it! Never thought I'd be a Ford Truck Girl -- EVER!

Hi, I currently have 2008 Toyota Tundra pulling a 32' Holiday Rambler travel trailer. I am very interested in getting an Airstream Classic 30' model and was wondering if you have weighed your truck to see what the weight is with the trailer connected to see if it is over it's GVWR? I have found out that my Tundra is over the GVWR(7100 lbs.) if the tongue weight goes over 1000 lbs. That is with two people in the front, full gas tank and very little else in the truck. It can pull over 10000 lbs. and has a combined weight rating of a little over 17000 lbs., but the tongue weight is what puts it over my trucks GVWR of 7100 lbs. It seems like most of the Airstreams in the 27 to 34' category have tongue weights in the 700 to 900 lb. range with no cargo added. I am just curious if most of the Airstream owners are able to keep their tow vehicles within the GVWR without going to a 3/4 ton pickup. Thanks for the help.

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by coolbikeman

Hi, I currently have 2008 Toyota Tundra pulling a 32' Holiday Rambler travel trailer. I am very interested in getting an Airstream Classic 30' model and was wondering if you have weighed your truck to see what the weight is with the trailer connected to see if it is over it's GVWR? I have found out that my Tundra is over the GVWR(7100 lbs.) if the tongue weight goes over 1000 lbs. That is with two people in the front, full gas tank and very little else in the truck. It can pull over 10000 lbs. and has a combined weight rating of a little over 17000 lbs., but the tongue weight is what puts it over my trucks GVWR of 7100 lbs. It seems like most of the Airstreams in the 27 to 34' category have tongue weights in the 700 to 900 lb. range with no cargo added. I am just curious if most of the Airstream owners are able to keep their tow vehicles within the GVWR without going to a 3/4 ton pickup. Thanks for the help.

OK .... and so it starts - the Cayenne/Taureg/Q7 topic hijacked by the other truck folks going off on a tangent.

While I really didn't mind Michelle posting about her truck rig after her exploring Euro-Deisels - & it is a really good looking rig & that is the new aluminum bodied F150 - it starts a whole new side tracked subject. Ergo my comment before.

So coolbikeman - please send Michelle a PM with your Tundra GVWR vs 3/4 Ton truck question!

We ask the same for the rest of you F150, Tundra, Dodge, Chevy/GM, Nissan, etc., etc. folks reading here to PLEASE find your own topics on your vehicles, or PM off of this topic about Cayennes/Tauregs/Q7s if you have an off-topic question or comment which comes up here.

Likewise, do the same courtesy on all of the posted topics on these forums.

It just makes them more useful to those reading, just as the F150 & Tundra topic starters would appreciate it if I & others don't hijack their threads with - "hey, do any of you Ford or Toyota types know anything about "X" on Porsche Cayennes?" on their topics.

It's really about common courtesy to all members, & not about "panties in wad" comments to someone old enough to be your parent or uncle or something when they're called on it!

On to C/T/Q on topic stuff ....

Knuff - looking forward to your feedback. Did CanAm send you the reinforcement pieces or is your local shop fabbing them?

You might want to PM member Francois who is the Porsche Master Tech who warned me about not attaching reinforcement to the rear suspension sub-frame to not damage it's mounting bushings. Welding to the sub-frame may also negate the warranty on your Cay-D, according to some dealer reps with whom I was speaking at our OC Porsche Club Concours on Sunday.

Perhaps there is a way that your local shop can attach to a uni-body structural hard-point under there, instead of welding to the sub-frame?

If you haven't read it yet, CanAm's website has Andy's test of the Cayenne Deisel pullin a similar rig to yours, which is linked in their CanAm website's "Hitch Hints" tab.

We're still looking for a nice used 2006-10 Cayenne S for our TV/3rd car.
... if only Porsche offered better paint colors for Cayennes - like that beautiful medium metallic blue on the new Macans!

Cheers!
Tom
///////

[timhortons]

I'd recommend doing this to a Cayenne after the warranty period anyways, why give them an excuse. But as discussed before there aren't enough used diesel cayenne around yet at decent prices.

I usually don't like pickup trucks, but the F150 in the picture is very nice. So far the 3.0TDI barely seems to notice the bambi is there. My Honda still wins points for visibility/scoot-ability/,maneuverability though.

[timhortons]

on a tangent ...

I'm really impressed with the new decor for the 2016 Sport models. Particularly the change it makes in the look of the 22ft. I previously didn't like this layout much, but the new color white/tan/gloss,grey oak scheme really brightens it up. For a heavy user or couple who needs more space than the 16 but less than the full timing size of a 25/27/28ft I think this could be a good choice. Reduced tank sizes, but the 2000lbs lower weight and narrower front profile, a real bathroom and fixed bed, dinette,kitchen space and towability might be worth the trade off.

[Knuff]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

On to C/T/Q on topic stuff ....

Knuff - looking forward to your feedback. Did CanAm send you the reinforcement pieces or is your local shop fabbing them?

You might want to PM member Francois who is the Porsche Master Tech who warned me about not attaching reinforcement to the rear suspension sub-frame to not damage it's mounting bushings. Welding to the sub-frame may also negate the warranty on your Cay-D, according to some dealer reps with whom I was speaking at our OC Porsche Club Concours on Sunday.

Perhaps there is a way that your local shop can attach to a uni-body structural hard-point under there, instead of welding to the sub-frame?

If you haven't read it yet, CanAm's website has Andy's test of the Cayenne Deisel pullin a similar rig to yours, which is linked in their CanAm website's "Hitch Hints" tab.

We're still looking for a nice used 2006-10 Cayenne S for our TV/3rd car.
... if only Porsche offered better paint colors for Cayennes - like that beautiful medium metallic blue on the new Macans!

Cheers!
Tom
///////

So here are some first pictures from the surgery. I am not too much concerned about the warranty - what warranty? Even an oil change on this beast costs an arm and a leg :roll eyes:

We opted for not welding to the sub-frame, but to use ½ inch bolts. We also did not use square tube but a flat iron. It gives more ground clearance and because we tow in the low (Sport) setting of the air-suspension this seems the be the better choice. Given that the weak points of this assembly is probably indeed the sub frame, it is (in my opinion) less of an issue whether the assembly is made from 2" square tube or just a flat piece of steel - it will not buckle.

[Tom_T]

OK Forum Webmaster & IT folks - I've tried 4x to upload 2 pix to this post & Knuff tried some in his post above - but I only got "upload failed" messages! So you've got some problem with the website not accepting uplaods which you need to fix!

Tim -

I agree that the silver 2015 F150 is a great match - if they could just offer it in unpainted polished aluminum for us silver trailer types!

Your TDI is in the later Cayenne body style (i.e.: Series 3) with the lower sloped roof line at the rear (vs. the earlier 2004-2010 body styles), which I assume is why you say the visibility is better in the Honda?

A higher scootability rating for the Honda tho surprises me, unless you mean due to turbo-lag!?

.

Knuff -

Your hitch mods pix didn't come thru on your post above either, so you may want to re-post them later, after they fix this problem.

FYI - the Porsche factory tow bar option on the 928's (made by ORIS) likewise had a flat bar strut forward to the unibody hard point below the rear seat (but oriented vertically to resist bending, but that wouldn't help your clearance issue).

So I think you're probably right about being okay on your flat bar option. Likewise, a good idea to bolt it on for reversibility, & in order to work on that sub-frame if ever necessary.

It may still be an out for either an original or CPO Porsche warranty, maybe not for something like a Fidelity Warranty (they apparently underwrite VW's & maybe Porsche's CPOs as well as their own).


What we want to find -

This is a spliced pic of 2 pix - L is a 2006 Cayenne S Titanium Ed. in that Iceland Silver (light silvery-blue metallic) 1/2 year color used from June-Dec 2006 (filling in for the no-2007 model until the Jan 2007 early release of the 2008 Series 2 with the 4.8L V8) - & spliced to our 1960 Avion when it was hitched to a rented Pathfinder & parked by our house.

If we don't find one in this color in good condition/low miles/updates & fixes done - then we're also looking at the 2008-10 Series 2 4.8L Cay-S's in either the darker metallic blue, silver, dark gray metallic, tan/gold metallic (I'm using the generic color names, rather than the official Porsche color names, since they changed them between MYs).

So the 1st pic is not our actual Cayenne+Avion rig in the pic below, but what we hope to find. I did it to show my wife to make sure that she'd like the look with "her cute little trailer" before I started searching for Cay-S's!

The 2nd pic is from the 1960 sales brochure for the then new 1961 MY T20, & this could be our actual T20 since it's #2 off the line & originally had that type rear bumper & the interior color is a match, & since they used early production examples for these type of brochures. I show that so you can see what it will look like when again polished, which I won't start until I can set up our fabric garage/canopy for protection!

NOTE - the website is currently not taking downloads as noted above, so I'll have to try again later when fixed, or add them to a later new post!

Cheers!
Tom
///////

[Tom_T]

I see Knuff's pix above, so here goes another try to post those pix intended for my post #86 above....

So the 1st pic is not our actual Cayenne+Avion rig in the pic below, but what we hope to find. I did it to show my wife to make sure that she'd like the look with "her cute little trailer" before I started searching for Cay-S's!

The 2nd pic is from the 1960 sales brochure for the then new 1961 MY T20, & this could be our actual T20 since it's #2 off the line & originally had that type rear bumper & the interior color is a match, & since they used early production examples for these type of brochures.

I show that so you can see what it will look like when again polished, which I won't start until I can set up our fabric garage/canopy for protection!

Cheers!
Tom
///////

[Msmoto]

Well, one advantage if towing a 25' and longer, is, with a truck one generally has longer wheelbase, more stable in crosswinds. I seem to always be in a cross wind, maybe because I am on the road do much. The shorter trailers might work well with a Cayenne, toured, etc.

See you in New Mexico!


Ms Tommie Lauer
Greensboro, NC
2015 Serenity 30 RB / 2008 Dodge Cummins 4 X 4
WBCCI #4165 AIR #31871

[Knuff]

Ok all - perhaps we can com back to the original intention of this thread to share experiences among people who actually use a Cayenne/Audi/Touareg or similar SUVs for towing. In reality there are many roads leading to Rome and for the people who are approaching from the same direction, there is a lot of knowledge and information that can be shared. Information such as the posts by ohiobrits and others for example that really helped me through the process of switching from a 20ft FC to our new 25FB International.
Thank you all!

[Knuff]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

I see Knuff's pix above, so here goes another try to post those pix intended for my post #86 above....

So the 1st pic is not our actual Cayenne+Avion rig in the pic below, but what we hope to find. I did it to show my wife to make sure that she'd like the look with "her cute little trailer" before I started searching for Cay-S's!

The 2nd pic is from the 1960 sales brochure for the then new 1961 MY T20, & this could be our actual T20 since it's #2 off the line & originally had that type rear bumper & the interior color is a match, & since they used early production examples for these type of brochures.

I show that so you can see what it will look like when again polished, which I won't start until I can set up our fabric garage/canopy for protection!

Cheers!
Tom
///////

Tom - Nice, nice, nice! I am looking forward to seeing how the "cute little trailer" will look when done and rigged up. Will be fantastic.

[Tom_T]

Thanx Knuff - the search goes on! Lost a nice one right nearby in Newport beach, but they got some fool to pay $6k over top NADA value & did so without checking any of the mechanical gremlins firwt, so wish them luck!

.

Ms. Tommie - Are you at going up to the PCA Porsche Parade in IN this weekend/week?

I think a proper anti-sway hitch like our Hensley Cub (or Arrow or ProPride) & the others eliminates the short wheelbase issue to which you refer.

I also think that the low CG, stiffer & sportier suspension, bigger brakes, & lower weight per HP or TQ make them equally capable within their rated capacity - as compared to a 1/2 ton truck.

I know that you're now using a 3/4 Dodge diesel for your rig, but you had towed with your Cayenne Turbo S - so you might share your Cayenne TV experiences with the others on here for their info.

.

ALL - since this is at least in part about the Porsche TV ....

For folks with Cayennes & other Porsches, there is quite a bit of fun stuff to do with the various chapters or "Regions" of Zone 8 here in SoCal. PM me if you need links for more info.

We had a range of both Cayennes & Macans at our Orange County Concours d'Elegance in Dana Point this past Sunday, with a couple entered for judging in our "Wash & Shine" Division (only ext & int judges), & "Ubergang" Division (it's like Street with ext, int & storage judged but not engine since it's relatively inaccessible anyway), plus several in the Display Car Corral area.

I did a quick walk around survey before I had to start judging & most hat the tow option - including the Macans (4400+/- lbs rating I think they are).

I think the Macan will be a great combo TV & DD/sporty car option for those with smaller & lighter TTs, as would the Audi Q5/S5 cousin!

I just wish Porsche had better paint colors for the Cayenne, such as this gorgeous metallic blue of the Macan Turbo S in the pic below from our OC Concours!

PS - I'm not a fan of either the black wheels, black window trim nor that black side blade - which they make you pay extra to paint as an option!

Cheers!
Tom
///////

[Knuff]

One question to the Cayenne and Touareg crowd with adaptive air suspension:
1) What height setting do you use for towing?
2) What hitch and WD system?
3) General thoughts on how it works for you?

I can only refer back to the last 1.5 years towing the 20ft FC with an Equalizer 1000 lbs hitch. We are using the "Sports" setting in low height (the one that is being automatically set). The ride we set either to normal or comfort. We towed 15,000 miles with this setting and never had any issues beside noise in slow corners. Some sway or movement at >65 mph when getting passed by bulky busses, some large trucks (not all), and some smaller trucks but nothing to complain about. It seems that the shape of passing big rigs is more of a factor than the overall size.

[Ohiobrits]

Knuff, I assume you have Porsche Active Suspension Management with the air suspension? Looks like that is the only way to get the air suspension. That must be a very nice handling Cayenne! I'm your "poor" cousin with old fashioned springs. I'm very interested to hear what others with that setup think. I had heard from an X5 owner with the equivalent BMW system that he had had issues (he thought) with the suspension software with WD applied. PASM is definitely an option I would have liked but opted for the "safe" route of steel springs since I had no info on others towing with PASM.

Gotta love this thread, learning new stuff all the time. By the way, nice receiver mod you have brewing....

[Tom_T]

So a side question for Ohiobrits - are you Brits in Ohio?
If so - are you roundball "Football" or oval ball Rugby fans??
... Rugby World Cup coming to UK this Sept/Oct!

.

On to the subjects at hand ...

On Air Suspension vs. Steel Springs - I've gotten Cayenne owners who tow on both sides of the air vs. steel sprung fence being being better.

I too am of the K.I.S.S. principal crowd & am looking for normal steel sprung `06-10 Cay-S, as noted above. It seemed like more folks actually towing a lot with them - & the service tech crowd - prefer the steel sprung route, in my informal by overly extensive polling & asking.

Since I tend to keep my vehicles until they're classics & beyond - I'm already concerned about trying to find replacements down the line when Porsche stops supporting spare parts for vehicles after the mandatory 10 years as it is - without adding air suspension air bags, pumps, valves, etc. into the mix.

My current newest car is our original owner & recently restored/refurb'ed 1988 VW Vanagon Camper GL Westfalia (T3/T25), & parts were very hard to find now, if that gives you an idea!

And the Porsche air suspension apparently needs something replaced about 7-10+/- yrs. or +/-100k miles.

I'm also not a fan of the Porsche alphabet-soup "nannies" nowadays, but I guess that's how they get the Cayenne to handle close to a sports car.

.

As to hitches - I obviously can't speak to hitch performance with a Cayenne yet - but we did tow in 2013 with similarly sized rented Nissan Pathfinder V6's - once "on the bare ball" which was a nightmare over 55 when the Avion got squirelly, but thereafter was with the Hensley Cub & had zero sway - even when I'd catch myself crept up to 75-80 (oops!), with 18-wheerlers barreling by us, & in the ubiquitous high coastal winds on US 101 north of Santa Barbara.

While the big trucks which we've rented really don't even notice the Avion behind them, & most have their own anti-sway built-in (esp. Fords). In fact, the big 3/4 tons are so heavy on their own, that we don't eve n see a difference in the mpg on gassers or diesel!

Ergo, my comment above to Tommie/Ms Moto about sway not being a problem with a shorter wheelbase TV like the C/T/Q cousins, even for 25'> TTs within the towing ratings.

I don't know how much those newer Equalizer, Blue Ox, etc. with the anti-sway + WD all in, but for a TT up to 6000# & 600# HW, a $1300-1500 Hensley Cub is cheap insurance for zero sway!

Even the bigger Arrow & PP are not outrageous price vs. the price of repairs or total loss of an AS or kin - whether new or vintage.

Plus, I don't have to lever up chains, nor remove the spring bars & hitch head with my Cub, nor on the Arrow or PP - so there are also other advantages, including the easier to use tensioning jacks for us old fartz!

Cheers!
Tom
///////

[Antique Pedaler]

Just returned from a 2,200 mile excursion into Canada with this rig. Driving this, compared to our DMAX pulling the 25' FB, is a lot less tiring. Averaged 18.1 mpg overall with cruise set 60 - 65 mph.


Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums

[Ohiobrits]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

So a side question for Ohiobrits - are you Brits in Ohio?
If so - are you roundball "Football" or oval ball Rugby fans??
... Rugby World Cup coming to UK this Sept/Oct!

Tom_T, my wife and I are the Brits in Ohio. We have 2 fine upstanding American kids, our eldest just finished his first year of college and our youngest is 12. I have been in the US about 15 years my wife over 20 so we are both now almost fully "assimilated" - except that I don't own a truck of course. My sport was soccer but now are football (pig skin), college in particular "Go Bucks!" I also follow the NBA - predictably the Cavs - "maybe next year".

Back on topic now before we get yelled at by Mr Knuff

[Tom_T]

Great vintage Bambi Antique Pedaler! Maybe we'll see you at a West Coast vintage rally sometime!?

I couldn't see us surviving that 2200 mi trek - nor 1/2 that - pulling our `60 Avion T20 with the 3/4 ton pick-ups which we've been renting either! The trucks just aren't comfortable rides for us! The prior rented Pathfinders were much more comfy, & I expect the soon to be Cayenne S TV to be even more so!

Ohio Brits - while I was born & bred here in the US & fed on Steelers & Pirates, then played pigskin Pop Warner up through high school in San Diego, & I also played Soccer in HS & college (USC), which I wasn't particularly good at, but my coach recognized my other football talents & suggested Rugby, which I played 26 years mostly at Scrumhalf (4 USC, 12 Div I Club + 2 at UCLA GSM, then 8 Old Boyz). I enjoy our football & Rugby now as an elder spectator!

Bucks have a pretty good XV's side in collegiate which you could also root for, but if you're now fully USA inculcated, you must now root fot the USA Eagles - & not the Roses - in the RWC!

Cheers!
Tom
///////

[Andrew T]

Hi Antique Peddler

Which weight distribution system are you using? I can see there is one there but can't tell the brand. I just noticed you are somewhat light on the front tires, though I am sure it works quite well transferring a little more weight forward will improve the ride and handling even more.

Andrew T

[timhortons]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

OK Forum Webmaster & IT folks - I've tried 4x to upload 2 pix to this post & Knuff tried some in his post above - but I only got "upload failed" messages! So you've got some problem with the website not accepting uplaods which you need to fix!

Tim -

I agree that the silver 2015 F150 is a great match - if they could just offer it in unpainted polished aluminum for us silver trailer types!

Your TDI is in the later Cayenne body style (i.e.: Series 3) with the lower sloped roof line at the rear (vs. the earlier 2004-2010 body styles), which I assume is why you say the visibility is better in the Honda?

A higher scootability rating for the Honda tho surprises me, unless you mean due to turbo-lag!?

.

Knuff -

Your hitch mods pix didn't come thru on your post above either, so you may want to re-post them later, after they fix this problem.

FYI - the Porsche factory tow bar option on the 928's (made by ORIS) likewise had a flat bar strut forward to the unibody hard point below the rear seat (but oriented vertically to resist bending, but that wouldn't help your clearance issue).

So I think you're probably right about being okay on your flat bar option. Likewise, a good idea to bolt it on for reversibility, & in order to work on that sub-frame if ever necessary.

It may still be an out for either an original or CPO Porsche warranty, maybe not for something like a Fidelity Warranty (they apparently underwrite VW's & maybe Porsche's CPOs as well as their own).


What we want to find -

This is a spliced pic of 2 pix - L is a 2006 Cayenne S Titanium Ed. in that Iceland Silver (light silvery-blue metallic) 1/2 year color used from June-Dec 2006 (filling in for the no-2007 model until the Jan 2007 early release of the 2008 Series 2 with the 4.8L V8) - & spliced to our 1960 Avion when it was hitched to a rented Pathfinder & parked by our house.

If we don't find one in this color in good condition/low miles/updates & fixes done - then we're also looking at the 2008-10 Series 2 4.8L Cay-S's in either the darker metallic blue, silver, dark gray metallic, tan/gold metallic (I'm using the generic color names, rather than the official Porsche color names, since they changed them between MYs).

So the 1st pic is not our actual Cayenne+Avion rig in the pic below, but what we hope to find. I did it to show my wife to make sure that she'd like the look with "her cute little trailer" before I started searching for Cay-S's!

The 2nd pic is from the 1960 sales brochure for the then new 1961 MY T20, & this could be our actual T20 since it's #2 off the line & originally had that type rear bumper & the interior color is a match, & since they used early production examples for these type of brochures. I show that so you can see what it will look like when again polished, which I won't start until I can set up our fabric garage/canopy for protection!

NOTE - the website is currently not taking downloads as noted above, so I'll have to try again later when fixed, or add them to a later new post!

Cheers!
Tom
///////

Tom T

My Cayenne is actually a Q7. That might explain the roof line.

On flat anyways, The Acura TSX is faster 0-60MPH with my 16' trailer than the Q7 based on a seat of the pants measurement. I'm sure the Q7 will dust it in a 45-75MPH range though.

This is because: Turbo Lag, Engine Spinup Time(Mass), and being 2000 lbs heavier. Taller tires and front profile of a brick are smaller factors.

If you don't believe me pull up one of the youtube videos of the Mercedes GL getting on the highway with a 25-28' airstream and notice the actual elapsed time. (hint: you could get a soda).

Once you're at speed it's all good and you can call down to the engine room for unlimited torque.

[Tom_T]

Tim - that's hilarious!

Hmmm ..... long run up getting on the freeway, lotsa weight or mass to get rolling, brick-like front end - 3 things which I'm well acquainted! ... see pic below!

I've been driving a 1988 VW Vanagone Westy since new for 27+ years - & it's been certifiably 0-60 in 30 minutes, maybe 29.5 - so I do know exactly what you mean .... er, well, except for that reserve of torque thing!!??

... "TQ - we don't need no stinking TQ" is a common VW van owner saying!

Got it on the Q7 too, I didn't really blow up the pic & my eyes are old!

Happy Fathers' Day! ... & to all the Dads out there too!
Tom
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