Thanx on the color info!
Is the R50 designation for the VW "R Line" 5.0 & including other special equipment & options beyond the standard Taureg V10? If built on the Porsche line, does it then also incorporate the Cayenne spec suspension, brakes, etc. as an R50 spec T-reg? Please educate me!
I'm guessing that your T-reg R50 V10 sold for about the same sticker price as a top of the line Cayenne Turbo S with comparable options/standard equipment sets on both - correct?
I agree that the Taureg V10 was an option loaded special vehicle from VW in the Taureg line-up, & will probably end up being one of those highly desirable collectable models featured in the 2025 Vintage Tow Vehicles thread on here, as well as appreciating in value. I'm sure it & the Phaeton will be much like the Westfalias, 19/21/23 window splitty buses, etc. are today - as future high value collector cars!
I would've never expected our 1988 VW Vanagon CamperGL Westfalia which was the most expensive Vanagon at the time & had a $28,000+/- sticker price new (I only paid $22,500-ish thru good negotiating), to be valued today in restored form in the $50-70,000+/- range!
So I strongly recommend that you keep it ...forever... pass it along to kids/etc., & not let it be one of the cars 20+ years from now that you wished you'd kept!
ALL... Notes on V10 5.0 TDI vs V6 3.0 TDI in C/T/Qs:
For those looking for diesel fuel efficiency in the V10 TTDI Tauregs - they were about the same mpg as the Porsche 4.5L V8 & VW 4.2L V8 Gassers
- so you're buying them for monstrous torque (see below) & top of the line features.
They were available on Tauregs from 2004-08 & then the VW V6 TDI came out in 2009> I think - the latter of which is the fuel efficient option. But the price premium & added maintenance costs on diesels makes the fuel savings hard to recoup in purchase price, over a V8 gasser even then. So you can find reasonably priced used VW Tauregs from 2009-11, then their prices climb rapidly to the new car levels.
Whereas, Porsche didn't bring their V6 TDI to the US/Can until 2013, so they are still high in the $50-60,000+ range & are even harder to justify the extra $20-30,000 over a 2008-10 Cayenne S gas V8 for towing.
If you're looking new, then the V6 TDI is a relatively
cost effective option - over the gas V8's in all 3 - Taureg, Cayenne & Q7 lines - for TV duty.
BTW - I'm using "TTDI" sometimes to reflect that some are "twin
turbo diesel injected" - although the general VW/Audi/Porsche parlance is usually just "TDI" in most cases.
For us adding a 3rd car TV & others in a similar situation - it doesn't make sense to spend new car nor recent used prices for a vehicle to sit in our driveway & get used maybe 3-6000 miles per year (currently we only put about 5,200 mi on BOTH our DD cars COMBINED per year).
So the used Cayenne S V8 is our choice poison, although I would jump on a nice low mile Taureg V10 TDI if one came along!
That was the exact YouTube video with Taureg V10 TDI vs. Chevy
2500 HD V8 TDI (I thought it was a Dodge) to which I was referring in my post above! Imagine that type of "pull off" with an AS or vintage kin in tow on a side-by-side drag strip or road course!
I too think that the V8 TTDI Cayenne Turbo Diesel S - the Euro/RoW V8 TDI to which I referred in post #115 - with the air suspension & other usual Porsche tweaks would give Vin's R50 V10 a run for the money performance-wise.
But IIRC the Porsche Cayenne Turbo Diesel S V8 TTDI TQ is about 805 lb/ft, whereas the Taureg V10 TTDI is over 1000 - so that V10 T-reg would still win their pull-off! ... by a shade anyway!
I agree on the VW fit & finish issues vs. Audi & Porsche! VW's problem is that the bean counters equate "Lux" with more profit, but NOT with commensurate quality & quality control!
I also agree that the brand sharing of platforms increases the ultimate quality & reliability of all sharing a platform, as well as possible parts sharing - or at least in a pinch in Podunk wherever lacking the Audi or Porsche dealership or independent shop, in a pinch!
Yes, the new 2011> Series 3 Cayenne lost about 7-800# also, as did the Tauregs, although perhaps only 5-600# on them.
And yes, that is a different Porsche Tiptronic gearbox - but it too is an 8-spd. You must be thinking of the new 7-spd PDK dual clutch (automatic clutch) stick shift (not really a manual), which was introduced for SUV/CUV use in the new for 2015 Macan line.
The downside on the newest Cayenne S is that the V8 is now a purely Porsche made 3.6L V6 TTI gasser from the Macan Turbo S (Macan S is a purely Porsche 3.0L TTI), so the V8 is now only on Cayenne Turbo & up gasser models. It's got great TQ down to about 1250 or 1850 rpm, so it will be competent, but may tend to run at higher revs while towing, than the prior 4.8L naturally aspirated V8s - especially on grades (& the higher than 55 mph towing speed that we're not supposed to exceed in CA & many other states ;-).
Yes, the Canadian market seems to get "special treatment" when it comes to car pricing. However, I think that if you add on options on the VW & Audi cousins to the comparable Cayenne - which often has a standard set of "included" options or features, which also increase with each sub-model/engine - then some or much of that $10kCAN differential goes away.
Offsetting that with all 3 makers, is when they force you to buy another option or option package, in order to get the ONE option you really want! A rear backup camera is a great example of that BS in our area of needs/wants for towing, & it is beyond me why 3 self-described luxury car makers do not include that feature as standard base equipment on ALL C/T/Q vehicles - period! Bloody stupid IMHO!
Therefore, for anyone looking at the buying one of 3 new, I would strongly suggest listing what equipment & features you really want & need + colors, interior, etc. - then go to each manufacturers' website to use their active "build your car" feature to compare them in actual cost to get your desired "package" between the 3 makes - then go negotiate!
If you really do need the 3rd row added seating - whether for your towing time, or in it's "off duty" time as your "car" - then skip the Cayenne & Taureg, & concentrate on the Audi, & perhaps the 3 row BMW X5 (I don't think the ML350/550/320TDI offers a 3rd row) for your Luxo Euro TV alternatives.
I really didn't research the Audi Q7 option much myself, for several reasons, & these are considerations for other folks looking at the Euro TV options:
1.) We're now empty nesters & don't need a 3rd row seating for a crowd;
2.) We didn't want the extra 10-14" +/- of length the 3rd row requires to further complicate our tight street & driveway situation;
3.) The Audi Q7 weighs more than the other 2 cousins - due to the added weight of that 3rd row & extra body length also reduces the Q7's max. tow rating proprtionately - relative to the ratings of the comparable year/engine Taureg & Cayenne (7716# & 700# on they years we're looking at buying used);
4.) The softer & more compliant ride settings for the Audi, vs. a more sporty & stiffer Cayenne (or Taureg), which is both more fun on a Porsche Club event, but also better resistance in towing use;
5.) We are looking for the smallest possible mid-size SUV with a V8 package due to our tight driveway & street conditions, plus my wife's reluctance to drive anything bigger than "her cute little happy van" (Westy).
I've included a bunch of info relevant to your post, in my replies above - intentionally so. Here's some more food for thought...
What I've found in my researching the same "how to service a Cayenne on the road" dilemma, is that there is enough similarity, that a VW or Audi dealer or independent shop could service the Cayenne in a pinch - at least enough to get you to the next big town with a Porsche dealership or Indie shop. The BMW & MBZ franchiises don't have that advantage - & it's even less so for the Land Rovers, to add another Euro TV not mentioned here to date.
There are some parts of the USA & Canada where none
of the Euro brands are common even in 2015, so there could be situations where something happens with your X5 or any of these, depending on how actively Murphy's Law is working that day!
In any of the cases for the Euro TVs, I think you're well served to buy to top tier AAA Premier or other roadside assistance plans with the 100, 200, ++ mile towing benefits.
Likewise, the Fidelity Extended Warranty has been recommended to me by several C & T owners for cars not on a CPO, since they apparently underwrite the VW CPO's in the USA (& maybe Audi & Porsche too).
Fidelity Warranty Services - Home Page
As for your target of 4-5 years old, depending on your intended use profile, mileage & how long you'd keep it - I'd suggest that your target age or perhaps new could be broadened a bit.
If you plan to trade in or sell off 2 cars - Cayman & X5 - then you may get your net cost down into used car territory - even on a new Cayenne etc. If you're a car keeper like me, then the drop doesn't really hurt unless you get in an accident in the first few years & insurance only pays you for your depreciated ACV value (my only 2 new cars ever are the 88 Westy & 85 BMW 325e - both of which I still own & the Westy at least is worth more now than new).
However, I don't like to "lose" 20-25-30% of the value when I drive a new car off the dealer's lot, so I personally think that a slightly used 1-2 year old PCNA staff or dealer demo Cayenne is a good option (ditto for VW, Audi, etc.).
I've made my case in this & other similar topics on these Euro haulers, that I think the Cayenne S V8 or GTS/Turbo/Turbo S are the best options for a sportier driving in daily non-tow mode & for car club driving treks, than the others (except that Taureg R50 V10 & V10 comes close, but the newest is 2008).
Likewise, you can look beyond the 4-5 year old window which you mention - & instead broaden it a bit based on some maximum mileage with which you're comfortable driving - given your profile. So the 4-5 year is now a 2010-2011 & soon to be 2011-12 come the Fall 2016 release.
But with the Cayenne for example - the Series 2 2008-10 are all pretty similar, so you could consider any of them under say 40, 50, 0r 60,000 miles - so long as they have documented service records for everything which needs done on them by miles & wear & factory maintenance (same for any make).
If you were to look at <2008 in the C/T/Q trio V8s (V6 & TDI will have their own quirks to verify were fixed too), then you'll need to make sure that the plastic coolant pipes were updated to metal, ignition coils were updated (all 8 of them) per the factory specs & service bulletins, & that the front lower control arms/bushings (@ +/-40-60k miles), & cardan shift/mid-bearing (driveshaft - @ +/-40-100k miles), timing chain tensioners & water pumps (@ +/-40-100k miles) were all done if & when needed (these items are not disimilar to the Cayman/Boxster/996/997 IMS issue, with which I'm sure you're familiar).
Those 2 update issues were all fixed on the 2008> Cayenne V8 models with their new 4.8L, but the other wear items above are still an issue on all C/T/Q models/years.
In addition to the other BMW, MBZ, etc. options - for your relatively light weight 17' AS Caravel
- you may also want to consider one of the new Porsche Macans &/or the cousin Audi Q5/S5 - as more of a close match to something between your Cayman & X5 TDI, & possibly
more fun in non-TV mode than a Cayenne.
The Macan S (3.0L TTI) & Macan Turbo S (3.6L TTI) & the soon to be released in North America Macan S Diesel (3.0L TTDI out since March 2015 in Europe/UK) are all rated at 4400+ lbs. for towing (don't recall the HW rating), & all have their TQ kicking in low enough at 1250-1850 rpm
I'm not sure about the Audi Q5 ratings & engines, except that their S5 is the closest to the Macan S, so worth looking into as well.
I was able to price out a new Macan S - at about the same expected $45,000+/- starting price as the Macan Diesel - with my desired options for the $52-55,000 range & not far off of a new base Taureg V6 TDI! But my wife wanted more rear storage room, so we went back to the `06-`10/`11 Cayenne S plan (see the 928 comments below).
You'll have less net useful load & cargo room on those Macan/S5 - than on the Cayenne, Taureg & Q7 (latter doesn't seem your style anyway), but they are smaller, lower slung & drive more sports car-like, than the C/T/Q trio.
So I'd suggest doing some research on both your towing & non-towing needs & desires relative to those cars, & then go out & have a bunch of fun test drives - including going out on a test run hitched to your Caravel
with any final contenders - to make you decision.
Then you can decide if you want to try new, or at least know more what to try out for the used cars in your 4-5 year old range, & make a used
Also note that I was originally hoping to make a Porsche `86.5 928S or `87-89 928S4 with it's 4200+ lb. tow rating work for our little Avion + more fun classic car GT cruiser 3rd car!
.... oh well, I lost that one to my wife's desire for "real back seats & more storage room"!
Pre-89 Porsches can qualify for cheaper classic car insurance with most companies offering it, but only certain ones also allow daily driver level of usage & more miles, so look at several to compare (Panorama, Excellence, Hemmings Sports & Exotics magazines all have ads for those collector car insurance companies).
But you could probably make it work for your Caravel!
...see 928 & Macan pix below - note the factory hitch/connector at the rear shot (Macan sideview was shown at prior post above)....
And before anyone chides me for including the 928 in a Euro SUV topic, the fact is that the Porsche 928 - while a GT - was factory TUV (German DOT) rated to tow 4200+ lbs for travel trailers - only about 200# shy of the new Macan's 4400+ lbs.!
So since there were no pre-2003 versions of the C/T/Q trio - I say that the factory tow rated 1978-95 V8 powered 928 line WAS & IS that predecessor of the pre-SUV/CUV era
, & therefore not OT!