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Old 06-26-2015, 12:45 PM   #113
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Here is my set up...
VW R50 V-10 TDI with air ride with 19 foot custom built all aluminum frame Trailer with disk breaks, with no WD hitch but I do use sway control. More power than I ever need for this size trailer but must say its fun to buzzzzz right by other SOB's going over !0,000 ft passes in Colorado!
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Old 06-26-2015, 12:57 PM   #114
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Here is my set up...
More power than I ever need for this size trailer but must say its fun to buzzzzz right by other SOB's going over !0,000 ft passes in Colorado!
Nice!
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Old 06-26-2015, 01:38 PM   #115
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Is the Taureg REALLY "Just like the Porsche"??

In re-reading some of the earlier posts on this thread - as well as on other threads concerning the Cayenne & Taureg - I noticed a few of the typical "why pay more for the 'same' Porsche Cayenne as the VW Taureg" commentary. After some extensive research for our own TV search - I feel that there is a real difference between the "cousins" - even if the proud Taureg owners would prefer to have us think of them as "twins" - except that they're not!

First - in reality - if you compare "apples with apples" price-wise (not build-wise) - a comparably equipped Taureg in any year & sub-model/engine type is really not that far off of the Cayenne prices - remarkably so even when new. And the Porsche still has many tangible & worthwhile benefits over the T-reg in terms of power, braking & suspension/handling - as noted below - as well as generally better build quality & quality control over VW.

And that price premium is negligible once you get a few years into the used car market - again for comparable equipment + similar miles & condition/care. Not to mention that you'll find more "rode hard & put away wet" used VW Tauregs which lacked the proper level of maintenance - than with the Porsche Cayenne S, GTS, Turbo, Turbo S & Diesels - & a bit less so on the Cayenne V6, which like the T-regs, tended to be more often less cared for grocery getter soccer mom/dad cars.

There is in fact the "Porsche pride of ownership" effect, which is also reflected in it being easier to find low & very low mile well cared for - even pampered - used Porsche Cayennes, than VW Tauregs. I found it even more so over the other competing used Asian, European & domestic mid-sized V8 powered SUVs/CUVs - which tend to be high mileage & in poor condition within 3-5 years old. As a used car buyer, I prefer that pride of ownership effect!

Second - Just to be perfectly clear for those looking at buying & comparing the two "cousins" - NO - they are NOT exactly the same, the Porsche is 60 - 80% different parts content wise - & they are more % different on the 2011> Series 3 & later Cayennes.

These 3 vehicles are sharing a "platform" with body shells of the Taureg & Cayenne similar - but the Cayenne unibody/chassis still has chassis stiffening & strengthening upgrades/differences from the T-reg - & the Q7 is mostly different due to its longer body/wheelbase to accommodate a 3rd seat row (see below).

It's true that VW builds the basic chassis/body shells for both/all 3 at their plant, but then Porsche line finishes the Cayennes separately within the same plant with Porsche components. This VW-Porsche joint venture is in fact the 2nd JV which financially saved Porsche's b*tt due to its strong sales. Or the third, if you also include the Porsche 924/944/968 models, which Porsche took over after VW left that prospective JV car before its production even started. And the 500,000+ Cayennes sold to date clearly have saved Porsche financially - usually selling about as many Cayennes (now in 2015 MY also including their Macans) - as all other Porsches combined for every year!

Historically & as the Cayenne/Taureg JV corporate precedent - the first VW-Porsche JV to save Porsche financially was in the late 1960s-1976, as embodied in the Porsche 914 (sold by VW as a VW-Porsche for the 4 cylinder models in the rest of the world - see my pic @ post 104) - again selling as many 914s as all other models for 1970-76 model years at 114,000+ in 5 model years, with all the `76 MYs completed in 1975. Moreover, at peak sales before the Dollar-Deutche Mark devaluation killed all German cars' sales - the `73 & `74 MY's 914s sold 27,000+/- each year at the peak - nearly equaling recent Cayenne annual sales!

The 914s too - like the Cayenne/Taureg, were unibody shells/chassis built by VW in their Karmann plant in Osnabruck - with the 914-6 bodies shipped to & completed by Porsche on their Stuttgart line (sold as a Porsche everywhere, but badged as a VW-Porsche outside of the US & Canada), while VW completed the 914-4 models at Karmann.

So you see Mr. Airstreamer67 - there actually is a parallel & strong historical link between my little 914 sports car which you chided me about above - and these Cayenne, Taureg & Q7 cousins of this thread! They were both VW-Porsche joint ventures, with Audi coming along on the latest JV after a few years, as part of the VW empire (pre-acquisition of Porsche, so now all 3 are VW divisions).

I would posit that the 914 program laid the groundwork for, made possible, & was the historical precedent of the current VW-Porsche Cayenne/Taureg JV - which might not have been as successful - if not impossible - without the lessons learned in the 1960-70's 914 JV program! So a little respectful history of the Cayenne/Taureg is also "on topic" in this case!

As for the differences of the Cayenne line-up - Porsche does a very large number of significant changes throughout the Cayenne line-up - over their Taureg "cousins" - including the fact that the Porsches all have larger displacement & more powerful engines, bigger brakes, a completely different & stiffer & more controlled suspension, different "smart systems" (PSM, PTM, etc. are all different than the VWs), & a number of other differing & improved or better sub-assemblies & functional systems - from the completely VW built T-regs.

In fact with the engines for example - only the gas & diesel V6 blocks/cases are shared, with different Porsche heads/pistons/cylinders, EFI, ignition, cooling & oil systems, etc. And the V8s are better performing & completely Porsche engines of larger displacement, HP & TQ. All Porsche motors all have more HP & TQ, than do those in the competitive T-reg sub-models. The transmissions & AWD systems have likewise been either tweaked by or replaced by Porsche, as are the suspension & brake systems.

The Cayennes simply drive, handle, pull, accelerate, stop, are put together better, etc. better than the Treg - for anyone who has owned &/or driven both.

Does that mean that the VW & Audi cousins are not great SUVs? Absolutely not! That Audi based V10 TDI engined Taureg was/is a monster puller - out pulling the Dodge 3/4 ton V8 Cummins diesel in a YouTube video - even if it is also "Porsche-level" expensive to maintain & repair (try $1600 for a starter, to start with - pun intended). And I have to admit that a clever mispronunciation of Taureg even evokes its TV prowess as "Tow-rig"!

But they also are NOT "just the same as a Cayenne, but for less money"!

With the Audi Q7 - you're usually going that route because you want the 3-row seating option for more passenger capacity - so it stands on its own as an option, but the power/brakes/suspension differences also apply to the Q7.

As to future values' depreciation & appreciation .... will a Taureg become an icon & as valuable in 20-30 years as a then classic car - as will a Porsche? Maybe for the Taureg V10 TDI & a few special models/trim packages, but I doubt for most others. But then I was surprised that my restored `88 VW Westfalia is now worth 3x what it sold new for, due to it's cult following. Will all Cayennes be better "investments"? No, but more so as compared to VWs, if current history is an accurate indicator, and more so for the Porsche V8s & diesels - especially their powerhouse V8 TTDI only offered in Europe/ROW - & other special models/trims.

And I am NOT anti-VW - as you can tell from my long time ownership of 2 VWs - our `88 VW Westy Vanagon, & my`73 914-2.0 powered by a Porsche tweaked VW flat-4 - which Posche improved after VW said they could not make their motor bigger than 1.8L (that was after VW left the JV in 73-74), & Porsche had the 1.7/1.8 motor tweaked by Hans Mezger of 917's 12 & 16 cyl. fame, which 2.0L VW subsequently "borrowed" for use as their own later 412 & Bus engines, & is the genisis of the waterboxer 4 in our Westy!

Of course the Porschephiles shoudn't get too cocky either, since Porsche started out in 1948 with a tweaked VW & continued that in the 356s & 912s for their first 2+ decades! And then the 924/944/968 were essentially VW/Audi based as well!

So I say just pick your vehicle from the 3 cousins - or from the BMW, MBZ, Volvo & other mid-size SUV/CUV competitors - based on your own budget, needs, desires, preferences, styling, towing, etc. - & what is available for sale at the time.

But don't try to spoof us that the VW is just like the Porsche! .... You'll also need to add the "...except for...." & then add the list!

IMHO - these are just some needed clarifications on this C/T/Q topic, so that newbies know the real story behind these great vehicles - of which all 3 are indeed excellent TVs which "punch well above their weight class" - & can still do the daily driver routine in comfort - without the need to take up a lane & a half or 2 parking spaces! .... unless you're just being a very careful owner, that is!

Cheers!
Tom
///////
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Old 06-26-2015, 01:53 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by vinstream View Post
Here is my set up...
VW R50 V-10 TDI with air ride with 19 foot custom built all aluminum frame Trailer with disk breaks, with no WD hitch but I do use sway control. More power than I ever need for this size trailer but must say its fun to buzzzzz right by other SOB's going over !0,000 ft passes in Colorado!
Great looking V10 Vin!

I saw one in that color last year for sale in CO, but it sold too fast for me to see it.

What is that light silvery-blue metallic called in the VW world?

It looks similar or the same as the Porsche "Iceland Silver" only offered for 6 months on the 2006 Cayenne S Titanium Ed. (2007-A MY). which we like & is the only pre-2008 we're looking at buying (see pic).

PS - That Taureg V10 was apparently built in order to allow Audi to homologate the motor for racing purposes. It is one Taureg where VW one-upped Porsche on the Cayenne line-up! Love it!
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Old 06-26-2015, 05:46 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Tom_T View Post
In re-reading some of the earlier posts on this thread - as well as on other threads concerning the Cayenne & Taureg - I noticed a few of the typical "why pay more for the 'same' Porsche Cayenne as the VW Taureg" commentary. After some extensive research for our own TV search - I feel that there is a real difference between the "cousins" - even if the proud Taureg owners would prefer to have us think of them as "twins" - except that they're not!

First - in reality - if you compare "apples with apples" price-wise (not build-wise) - a comparably equipped Taureg in any year & sub-model/engine type is really not that far off of the Cayenne prices - remarkably so even when new. And the Porsche still has many tangible & worthwhile benefits over the T-reg in terms of power, braking & suspension/handling - as noted below - as well as generally better build quality & quality control over VW.

And that price premium is negligible once you get a few years into the used car market - again for comparable equipment + similar miles & condition/care. Not to mention that you'll find more "rode hard & put away wet" used VW Tauregs which lacked the proper level of maintenance - than with the Porsche Cayenne S, GTS, Turbo, Turbo S & Diesels - & a bit less so on the Cayenne V6, which like the T-regs, tended to be more often less cared for grocery getter soccer mom/dad cars.

There is in fact the "Porsche pride of ownership" effect, which is also reflected in it being easier to find low & very low mile well cared for - even pampered - used Porsche Cayennes, than VW Tauregs. I found it even more so over the other competing used Asian, European & domestic mid-sized V8 powered SUVs/CUVs - which tend to be high mileage & in poor condition within 3-5 years old. As a used car buyer, I prefer that pride of ownership effect!

Second - Just to be perfectly clear for those looking at buying & comparing the two "cousins" - NO - they are NOT exactly the same, the Porsche is 60 - 80% different parts content wise - & they are more % different on the 2011> Series 3 & later Cayennes.

These 3 vehicles are sharing a "platform" with body shells of the Taureg & Cayenne similar - but the Cayenne unibody/chassis still has chassis stiffening & strengthening upgrades/differences from the T-reg - & the Q7 is mostly different due to its longer body/wheelbase to accommodate a 3rd seat row (see below).

It's true that VW builds the basic chassis/body shells for both/all 3 at their plant, but then Porsche line finishes the Cayennes separately within the same plant with Porsche components. This VW-Porsche joint venture is in fact the 2nd JV which financially saved Porsche's b*tt due to its strong sales. Or the third, if you also include the Porsche 924/944/968 models, which Porsche took over after VW left that prospective JV car before its production even started. And the 500,000+ Cayennes sold to date clearly have saved Porsche financially - usually selling about as many Cayennes (now in 2015 MY also including their Macans) - as all other Porsches combined for every year!

Historically & as the Cayenne/Taureg JV corporate precedent - the first VW-Porsche JV to save Porsche financially was in the late 1960s-1976, as embodied in the Porsche 914 (sold by VW as a VW-Porsche for the 4 cylinder models in the rest of the world - see my pic @ post 104) - again selling as many 914s as all other models for 1970-76 model years at 114,000+ in 5 model years, with all the `76 MYs completed in 1975. Moreover, at peak sales before the Dollar-Deutche Mark devaluation killed all German cars' sales - the `73 & `74 MY's 914s sold 27,000+/- each year at the peak - nearly equaling recent Cayenne annual sales!

The 914s too - like the Cayenne/Taureg, were unibody shells/chassis built by VW in their Karmann plant in Osnabruck - with the 914-6 bodies shipped to & completed by Porsche on their Stuttgart line (sold as a Porsche everywhere, but badged as a VW-Porsche outside of the US & Canada), while VW completed the 914-4 models at Karmann.

So you see Mr. Airstreamer67 - there actually is a parallel & strong historical link between my little 914 sports car which you chided me about above - and these Cayenne, Taureg & Q7 cousins of this thread! They were both VW-Porsche joint ventures, with Audi coming along on the latest JV after a few years, as part of the VW empire (pre-acquisition of Porsche, so now all 3 are VW divisions).

I would posit that the 914 program laid the groundwork for, made possible, & was the historical precedent of the current VW-Porsche Cayenne/Taureg JV - which might not have been as successful - if not impossible - without the lessons learned in the 1960-70's 914 JV program! So a little respectful history of the Cayenne/Taureg is also "on topic" in this case!

As for the differences of the Cayenne line-up - Porsche does a very large number of significant changes throughout the Cayenne line-up - over their Taureg "cousins" - including the fact that the Porsches all have larger displacement & more powerful engines, bigger brakes, a completely different & stiffer & more controlled suspension, different "smart systems" (PSM, PTM, etc. are all different than the VWs), & a number of other differing & improved or better sub-assemblies & functional systems - from the completely VW built T-regs.

In fact with the engines for example - only the gas & diesel V6 blocks/cases are shared, with different Porsche heads/pistons/cylinders, EFI, ignition, cooling & oil systems, etc. And the V8s are better performing & completely Porsche engines of larger displacement, HP & TQ. All Porsche motors all have more HP & TQ, than do those in the competitive T-reg sub-models. The transmissions & AWD systems have likewise been either tweaked by or replaced by Porsche, as are the suspension & brake systems.

The Cayennes simply drive, handle, pull, accelerate, stop, are put together better, etc. better than the Treg - for anyone who has owned &/or driven both.

Does that mean that the VW & Audi cousins are not great SUVs? Absolutely not! That Audi based V10 TDI engined Taureg was/is a monster puller - out pulling the Dodge 3/4 ton V8 Cummins diesel in a YouTube video - even if it is also "Porsche-level" expensive to maintain & repair (try $1600 for a starter, to start with - pun intended). And I have to admit that a clever mispronunciation of Taureg even evokes its TV prowess as "Tow-rig"!

But they also are NOT "just the same as a Cayenne, but for less money"!

With the Audi Q7 - you're usually going that route because you want the 3-row seating option for more passenger capacity - so it stands on its own as an option, but the power/brakes/suspension differences also apply to the Q7.

As to future values' depreciation & appreciation .... will a Taureg become an icon & as valuable in 20-30 years as a then classic car - as will a Porsche? Maybe for the Taureg V10 TDI & a few special models/trim packages, but I doubt for most others. But then I was surprised that my restored `88 VW Westfalia is now worth 3x what it sold new for, due to it's cult following. Will all Cayennes be better "investments"? No, but more so as compared to VWs, if current history is an accurate indicator, and more so for the Porsche V8s & diesels - especially their powerhouse V8 TTDI only offered in Europe/ROW - & other special models/trims.

And I am NOT anti-VW - as you can tell from my long time ownership of 2 VWs - our `88 VW Westy Vanagon, & my`73 914-2.0 powered by a Porsche tweaked VW flat-4 - which Posche improved after VW said they could not make their motor bigger than 1.8L (that was after VW left the JV in 73-74), & Porsche had the 1.7/1.8 motor tweaked by Hans Mezger of 917's 12 & 16 cyl. fame, which 2.0L VW subsequently "borrowed" for use as their own later 412 & Bus engines, & is the genisis of the waterboxer 4 in our Westy!

Of course the Porschephiles shoudn't get too cocky either, since Porsche started out in 1948 with a tweaked VW & continued that in the 356s & 912s for their first 2+ decades! And then the 924/944/968 were essentially VW/Audi based as well!

So I say just pick your vehicle from the 3 cousins - or from the BMW, MBZ, Volvo & other mid-size SUV/CUV competitors - based on your own budget, needs, desires, preferences, styling, towing, etc. - & what is available for sale at the time.

But don't try to spoof us that the VW is just like the Porsche! .... You'll also need to add the "...except for...." & then add the list!

IMHO - these are just some needed clarifications on this C/T/Q topic, so that newbies know the real story behind these great vehicles - of which all 3 are indeed excellent TVs which "punch well above their weight class" - & can still do the daily driver routine in comfort - without the need to take up a lane & a half or 2 parking spaces! .... unless you're just being a very careful owner, that is!

Cheers!
Tom
///////

I think my V-10 TDi with air-ride is way better than what the Porsche Cayenne offers... sure it the rarest of all them...
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Old 06-26-2015, 05:50 PM   #118
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Great looking V10 Vin!

I saw one in that color last year for sale in CO, but it sold too fast for me to see it.

What is that light silvery-blue metallic called in the VW world?

It looks similar or the same as the Porsche "Iceland Silver" only offered for 6 months on the 2006 Cayenne S Titanium Ed. (2007-A MY). which we like & is the only pre-2008 we're looking at buying (see pic).

PS - That Taureg V10 was apparently built in order to allow Audi to homologate the motor for racing purposes. It is one Taureg where VW one-upped Porsche on the Cayenne line-up! Love it!
It was called the same color... My vehicle the R50 was built in the Porsche factory... maybe thats why?!
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Old 06-27-2015, 09:08 AM   #119
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Here is my set up...
VW R50 V-10 TDI with air ride with 19 foot custom built all aluminum frame Trailer with disk breaks, with no WD hitch but I do use sway control. More power than I ever need for this size trailer but must say its fun to buzzzzz right by other SOB's going over !0,000 ft passes in Colorado!

Now that's a diesel! Who needs a bug truck? Now Porsche, why not a Cayenne Diesel S? Fastest diesel SUV around the Nurburgring - nice partner in crime with the Turbo S gasser?
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Old 06-27-2015, 09:13 AM   #120
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Q7 is the best

I didn't like the appearance of the new Touregs, so I bought a used Q7. Different people like different things. For example I think the porsches look like giant VW bugs to me, lots of people love 'em.

Here in Canada there's +10k difference or so for each tier new, Toureg, Q7, Cayenne Diesel, plus taxes plus fees, plus depreciation, plus parts/service being more expensive on the higher brands.

There are mechanical differences and frills as you go higher as well. If you need drilled carbon fiber ceramic brakes or the stereo that rises from the dash ....

Having driven a badge engineered hondas for 20 years under the acura brand I'm not paticularly bothered that theres a different brand or more mass market vehicle under the skin/hood. Overall that makes for a more reliable vehicle.

I was bothered somewhat that the still super expensive 55- 60kCDN Toureg, had some cheaper surface fit and finish mixed in with the good stuff. In general I think VW main brand is slightly skitzoid in this regard between being a peoples car brand and a luxury brand(remember the Phaton). VAG can build super lux but the bean counters make profitable decisions about what to put in and leave out at each tier.

Conversely you'll note that sometimes the badge/brand/adapted versions of the vehicle will not get mainstream features or vice versa. For example there's a 7 speed auto slushbox(highly tuned) in the Cayenne and the 8 speed DSG, in the Q7 and the Toureg. (the DSG is a little lurchy at lower ranges and may not have seemed refined enough for porsche)

Also there's a new Q7 weight loss program with more high strength steel and aluminum body panels that takes off about 800 lbs ! When this arrives it will be the most modernized member of the family for a year or two I think. Or is there a VW/Porsche version of this already ?
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Old 06-27-2015, 10:09 AM   #121
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lots of great information

this thread has lots of great information and i thank everyone for sharing your enthusiasm and knowledge.

i have an interest in what is being posted. my daily driver is a 2007 porsche cayman s, my airstream a 1965 caravel and my TV a 2011 BMW X5 diesel.

the porsche is getting brutal to drive daily as i get older and i am looking at other daily drivers with the possibility of towing as well.

how do y'all rate the diesel vs gas as a tow vehicle in both the VW and porsche?

if you were buying used in the 4-5 year old range which of each vehicle would you consider the best ?

how many miles do you realistically think that you can put on these vehicles till it becomes a game of diminishing returns?

one of the reasons i didnt really look at the porsche before was because i assumed that the dealership network to be sparse, and if i was travelling all over the country i felt that may be an issue. is that reasonable thinking? i would assume that the vw network was the strongest. any ideas of audi, vw, bmw and porsche penetration throughout the country?
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Old 06-27-2015, 11:21 AM   #122
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Bit of fun for this "non big truck" crowd. I'm sure folks have seen this before but it's one of those videos I wheel out when my truck buddies start telling me to get a "real" TV.

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Old 06-27-2015, 12:25 PM   #123
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[QUOTE=kevinkatz; how do y'all rate the diesel vs gas as a tow vehicle in both the VW and porsche?[/QUOTE]


As far as diesel v gas, more torque with the diesel will be the main difference although a lot of the more recent gas engines are now turbo and have similar torque values to the diesels and usually much more hp. Torque is what you want for towing though, hp is only relevant (assuming you have 200hp plus) if you like to tow at 90 mph or more, aero drag will likely limit your "progress" at that point.
Fuel economy will be the other significant difference. Diesels will get significantly more mpg hitched and unhitched. Towing my 27FB I get about 17mpg in hilly terrain at 65mph and see around 19mpg at 75mph on the flat.
As far as dealers go, I suspect an Audi or VW dealer would be able to help you out with a lot of minor Cayenne issues. Most big cities have at least one Porsche dealer. About the same for BMW, maybe a bit more widespread, VW as you say probably most widespread. There are also plenty of Independents that will cover Porsche/BMW etc.

The BMW X5 you have is a fine TV. Any reason why you are looking to change?
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Old 06-27-2015, 01:50 PM   #124
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not changing but want another vehicle

thanks for reply.
i love the bmw --it is super comfortable and tows really well. in fact in reviewing used vehicles of this genre it appears as though the bmw x5d is slightly cheaper than the others listed on this thread.
i am thinking of getting rid of the cayman s and replacing it with another vehicle. i would like the towing option and am considering either a cayenne or a toureg. that is the reason for the questions.
the cayenne seems to have many different trim packages so that evaluating it is somewhat confusing.
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Old 06-27-2015, 06:10 PM   #125
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Replies to Multiple Posts....

Vinstream... Thanx on the color info!

Is the R50 designation for the VW "R Line" 5.0 & including other special equipment & options beyond the standard Taureg V10? If built on the Porsche line, does it then also incorporate the Cayenne spec suspension, brakes, etc. as an R50 spec T-reg? Please educate me!

I'm guessing that your T-reg R50 V10 sold for about the same sticker price as a top of the line Cayenne Turbo S with comparable options/standard equipment sets on both - correct?

I agree that the Taureg V10 was an option loaded special vehicle from VW in the Taureg line-up, & will probably end up being one of those highly desirable collectable models featured in the 2025 Vintage Tow Vehicles thread on here, as well as appreciating in value. I'm sure it & the Phaeton will be much like the Westfalias, 19/21/23 window splitty buses, etc. are today - as future high value collector cars!

I would've never expected our 1988 VW Vanagon CamperGL Westfalia which was the most expensive Vanagon at the time & had a $28,000+/- sticker price new (I only paid $22,500-ish thru good negotiating), to be valued today in restored form in the $50-70,000+/- range!

So I strongly recommend that you keep it ...forever... pass it along to kids/etc., & not let it be one of the cars 20+ years from now that you wished you'd kept!


ALL... Notes on V10 5.0 TDI vs V6 3.0 TDI in C/T/Qs:

For those looking for diesel fuel efficiency in the V10 TTDI Tauregs - they were about the same mpg as the Porsche 4.5L V8 & VW 4.2L V8 Gassers - so you're buying them for monstrous torque (see below) & top of the line features.

They were available on Tauregs from 2004-08 & then the VW V6 TDI came out in 2009> I think - the latter of which is the fuel efficient option. But the price premium & added maintenance costs on diesels makes the fuel savings hard to recoup in purchase price, over a V8 gasser even then. So you can find reasonably priced used VW Tauregs from 2009-11, then their prices climb rapidly to the new car levels.

Whereas, Porsche didn't bring their V6 TDI to the US/Can until 2013, so they are still high in the $50-60,000+ range & are even harder to justify the extra $20-30,000 over a 2008-10 Cayenne S gas V8 for towing.

If you're looking new, then the V6 TDI is a relatively cost effective option - over the gas V8's in all 3 - Taureg, Cayenne & Q7 lines - for TV duty.

BTW - I'm using "TTDI" sometimes to reflect that some are "twin turbo diesel injected" - although the general VW/Audi/Porsche parlance is usually just "TDI" in most cases.

For us adding a 3rd car TV & others in a similar situation - it doesn't make sense to spend new car nor recent used prices for a vehicle to sit in our driveway & get used maybe 3-6000 miles per year (currently we only put about 5,200 mi on BOTH our DD cars COMBINED per year).

So the used Cayenne S V8 is our choice poison, although I would jump on a nice low mile Taureg V10 TDI if one came along!


Ohiobrits...

That was the exact YouTube video with Taureg V10 TDI vs. Chevy 2500 HD V8 TDI (I thought it was a Dodge) to which I was referring in my post above! Imagine that type of "pull off" with an AS or vintage kin in tow on a side-by-side drag strip or road course!

I too think that the V8 TTDI Cayenne Turbo Diesel S - the Euro/RoW V8 TDI to which I referred in post #115 - with the air suspension & other usual Porsche tweaks would give Vin's R50 V10 a run for the money performance-wise.

But IIRC the Porsche Cayenne Turbo Diesel S V8 TTDI TQ is about 805 lb/ft, whereas the Taureg V10 TTDI is over 1000 - so that V10 T-reg would still win their pull-off! ... by a shade anyway!


Timhortons...

I agree on the VW fit & finish issues vs. Audi & Porsche! VW's problem is that the bean counters equate "Lux" with more profit, but NOT with commensurate quality & quality control!

I also agree that the brand sharing of platforms increases the ultimate quality & reliability of all sharing a platform, as well as possible parts sharing - or at least in a pinch in Podunk wherever lacking the Audi or Porsche dealership or independent shop, in a pinch!

Yes, the new 2011> Series 3 Cayenne lost about 7-800# also, as did the Tauregs, although perhaps only 5-600# on them.

And yes, that is a different Porsche Tiptronic gearbox - but it too is an 8-spd. You must be thinking of the new 7-spd PDK dual clutch (automatic clutch) stick shift (not really a manual), which was introduced for SUV/CUV use in the new for 2015 Macan line.

The downside on the newest Cayenne S is that the V8 is now a purely Porsche made 3.6L V6 TTI gasser from the Macan Turbo S (Macan S is a purely Porsche 3.0L TTI), so the V8 is now only on Cayenne Turbo & up gasser models. It's got great TQ down to about 1250 or 1850 rpm, so it will be competent, but may tend to run at higher revs while towing, than the prior 4.8L naturally aspirated V8s - especially on grades (& the higher than 55 mph towing speed that we're not supposed to exceed in CA & many other states ;-).

Yes, the Canadian market seems to get "special treatment" when it comes to car pricing. However, I think that if you add on options on the VW & Audi cousins to the comparable Cayenne - which often has a standard set of "included" options or features, which also increase with each sub-model/engine - then some or much of that $10kCAN differential goes away.

Offsetting that with all 3 makers, is when they force you to buy another option or option package, in order to get the ONE option you really want! A rear backup camera is a great example of that BS in our area of needs/wants for towing, & it is beyond me why 3 self-described luxury car makers do not include that feature as standard base equipment on ALL C/T/Q vehicles - period! Bloody stupid IMHO!

Therefore, for anyone looking at the buying one of 3 new, I would strongly suggest listing what equipment & features you really want & need + colors, interior, etc. - then go to each manufacturers' website to use their active "build your car" feature to compare them in actual cost to get your desired "package" between the 3 makes - then go negotiate!

If you really do need the 3rd row added seating - whether for your towing time, or in it's "off duty" time as your "car" - then skip the Cayenne & Taureg, & concentrate on the Audi, & perhaps the 3 row BMW X5 (I don't think the ML350/550/320TDI offers a 3rd row) for your Luxo Euro TV alternatives.

I really didn't research the Audi Q7 option much myself, for several reasons, & these are considerations for other folks looking at the Euro TV options:

1.) We're now empty nesters & don't need a 3rd row seating for a crowd;

2.) We didn't want the extra 10-14" +/- of length the 3rd row requires to further complicate our tight street & driveway situation;

3.) The Audi Q7 weighs more than the other 2 cousins - due to the added weight of that 3rd row & extra body length also reduces the Q7's max. tow rating proprtionately - relative to the ratings of the comparable year/engine Taureg & Cayenne (7716# & 700# on they years we're looking at buying used);

4.) The softer & more compliant ride settings for the Audi, vs. a more sporty & stiffer Cayenne (or Taureg), which is both more fun on a Porsche Club event, but also better resistance in towing use;

5.) We are looking for the smallest possible mid-size SUV with a V8 package due to our tight driveway & street conditions, plus my wife's reluctance to drive anything bigger than "her cute little happy van" (Westy).


kevinkatz...

I've included a bunch of info relevant to your post, in my replies above - intentionally so. Here's some more food for thought...

What I've found in my researching the same "how to service a Cayenne on the road" dilemma, is that there is enough similarity, that a VW or Audi dealer or independent shop could service the Cayenne in a pinch - at least enough to get you to the next big town with a Porsche dealership or Indie shop. The BMW & MBZ franchiises don't have that advantage - & it's even less so for the Land Rovers, to add another Euro TV not mentioned here to date.

There are some parts of the USA & Canada where none of the Euro brands are common even in 2015, so there could be situations where something happens with your X5 or any of these, depending on how actively Murphy's Law is working that day!

In any of the cases for the Euro TVs, I think you're well served to buy to top tier AAA Premier or other roadside assistance plans with the 100, 200, ++ mile towing benefits.

Likewise, the Fidelity Extended Warranty has been recommended to me by several C & T owners for cars not on a CPO, since they apparently underwrite the VW CPO's in the USA (& maybe Audi & Porsche too).

Fidelity Warranty Services - Home Page

As for your target of 4-5 years old, depending on your intended use profile, mileage & how long you'd keep it - I'd suggest that your target age or perhaps new could be broadened a bit.

If you plan to trade in or sell off 2 cars - Cayman & X5 - then you may get your net cost down into used car territory - even on a new Cayenne etc. If you're a car keeper like me, then the drop doesn't really hurt unless you get in an accident in the first few years & insurance only pays you for your depreciated ACV value (my only 2 new cars ever are the 88 Westy & 85 BMW 325e - both of which I still own & the Westy at least is worth more now than new).

However, I don't like to "lose" 20-25-30% of the value when I drive a new car off the dealer's lot, so I personally think that a slightly used 1-2 year old PCNA staff or dealer demo Cayenne is a good option (ditto for VW, Audi, etc.).

I've made my case in this & other similar topics on these Euro haulers, that I think the Cayenne S V8 or GTS/Turbo/Turbo S are the best options for a sportier driving in daily non-tow mode & for car club driving treks, than the others (except that Taureg R50 V10 & V10 comes close, but the newest is 2008).

Likewise, you can look beyond the 4-5 year old window which you mention - & instead broaden it a bit based on some maximum mileage with which you're comfortable driving - given your profile. So the 4-5 year is now a 2010-2011 & soon to be 2011-12 come the Fall 2016 release.

But with the Cayenne for example - the Series 2 2008-10 are all pretty similar, so you could consider any of them under say 40, 50, 0r 60,000 miles - so long as they have documented service records for everything which needs done on them by miles & wear & factory maintenance (same for any make).

If you were to look at <2008 in the C/T/Q trio V8s (V6 & TDI will have their own quirks to verify were fixed too), then you'll need to make sure that the plastic coolant pipes were updated to metal, ignition coils were updated (all 8 of them) per the factory specs & service bulletins, & that the front lower control arms/bushings (@ +/-40-60k miles), & cardan shift/mid-bearing (driveshaft - @ +/-40-100k miles), timing chain tensioners & water pumps (@ +/-40-100k miles) were all done if & when needed (these items are not disimilar to the Cayman/Boxster/996/997 IMS issue, with which I'm sure you're familiar).

Those 2 update issues were all fixed on the 2008> Cayenne V8 models with their new 4.8L, but the other wear items above are still an issue on all C/T/Q models/years.


In addition to the other BMW, MBZ, etc. options - for your relatively light weight 17' AS Caravel - you may also want to consider one of the new Porsche Macans &/or the cousin Audi Q5/S5 - as more of a close match to something between your Cayman & X5 TDI, & possibly more fun in non-TV mode than a Cayenne.

The Macan S (3.0L TTI) & Macan Turbo S (3.6L TTI) & the soon to be released in North America Macan S Diesel (3.0L TTDI out since March 2015 in Europe/UK) are all rated at 4400+ lbs. for towing (don't recall the HW rating), & all have their TQ kicking in low enough at 1250-1850 rpm

I'm not sure about the Audi Q5 ratings & engines, except that their S5 is the closest to the Macan S, so worth looking into as well.

I was able to price out a new Macan S - at about the same expected $45,000+/- starting price as the Macan Diesel - with my desired options for the $52-55,000 range & not far off of a new base Taureg V6 TDI! But my wife wanted more rear storage room, so we went back to the `06-`10/`11 Cayenne S plan (see the 928 comments below).

You'll have less net useful load & cargo room on those Macan/S5 - than on the Cayenne, Taureg & Q7 (latter doesn't seem your style anyway), but they are smaller, lower slung & drive more sports car-like, than the C/T/Q trio.

So I'd suggest doing some research on both your towing & non-towing needs & desires relative to those cars, & then go out & have a bunch of fun test drives - including going out on a test run hitched to your Caravel with any final contenders - to make you decision.

Then you can decide if you want to try new, or at least know more what to try out for the used cars in your 4-5 year old range, & make a used

Also note that I was originally hoping to make a Porsche `86.5 928S or `87-89 928S4 with it's 4200+ lb. tow rating work for our little Avion + more fun classic car GT cruiser 3rd car! .... oh well, I lost that one to my wife's desire for "real back seats & more storage room"!

Pre-89 Porsches can qualify for cheaper classic car insurance with most companies offering it, but only certain ones also allow daily driver level of usage & more miles, so look at several to compare (Panorama, Excellence, Hemmings Sports & Exotics magazines all have ads for those collector car insurance companies).

But you could probably make it work for your Caravel!
...see 928 & Macan pix below - note the factory hitch/connector at the rear shot (Macan sideview was shown at prior post above)....

And before anyone chides me for including the 928 in a Euro SUV topic, the fact is that the Porsche 928 - while a GT - was factory TUV (German DOT) rated to tow 4200+ lbs for travel trailers - only about 200# shy of the new Macan's 4400+ lbs.!

So since there were no pre-2003 versions of the C/T/Q trio - I say that the factory tow rated 1978-95 V8 powered 928 line WAS & IS that predecessor of the pre-SUV/CUV era, & therefore not OT!

Cheers!
Tom
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Old 06-28-2015, 08:02 PM   #126
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Tom, you are a veritable Porsche encyclopedia!

I really like the Macan. I heed to persuade my wife she needs a new car, trade her the Cayenne (which she loves) so I can have the Macan. Pipe dream maybe but that's how the Airstream idea started.....

By the way I'm on my way back from South Carolina today, pulled into a rest stop and there was a Airstream Classic towed by a Ford SuperDuty Powerstroke. The owner immediately came over and asked the usual questions about the TV- "Does it get pushed around?" (no), "How is it on the hills?" (great, 65 mph is no problem on a 5% climb) -"Fuel economy?" (17 average on the hills, 19 on the flat at 75mphClick image for larger version

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Seriously though, I will post some impressions of the 1400 mile round trip trip in the next few days. All good, and may help some folks. I also played around with my brake controller setting and will share a few observations there as well.
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