Porsche Cayenne, VW Touareg, Audi Q7 owners

[JerryMcMunn]

We have been using the Aero 2 mirrors with our 2014 Touareg & 25' Airstream for well over a year. We are quite pleased with them.

[Andrew T]

Brake Controller - I posted earlier that I had my max voltage (Tekonsha P3) set at about 6V and Boost 2. I was seeing a lot of front wheel brake dust so did some more testing. I had the wife observe me doing hard stops in a Walmart parking lot and we determined that the TV wheels lock at 9V so we backed it down to 8.8V.

On your Prodigy control try increasing the gain to the maximum setting and turning the boost off, the display will show b_ . This will give you maximum braking in a panic stop and smoother braking at low speed, though it will still be slightly aggressive at low speed. With this setting you will find you can modulate the trailer brakes pretty directly with the foot pedal.

90% of the Airstreams we set up wind up set this way, Occasionally we may wind the voltage down to 10 or 11 if they are too aggressive. If not aggressive enough we may go to B1 but that is rare with an Airstream.

Andy

Andrew T

[Ohiobrits]

Originally Posted by Andrew T

Brake Controller - I posted earlier that I had my max voltage (Tekonsha P3) set at about 6V and Boost 2. I was seeing a lot of front wheel brake dust so did some more testing. I had the wife observe me doing hard stops in a Walmart parking lot and we determined that the TV wheels lock at 9V so we backed it down to 8.8V.

On your Prodigy control try increasing the gain to the maximum setting and turning the boost off, the display will show b_ . This will give you maximum braking in a panic stop and smoother braking at low speed, though it will still be slightly aggressive at low speed. With this setting you will find you can modulate the trailer brakes pretty directly with the foot pedal.

Andrew T

Andy, thanks for the insight, I will for sure give this a go.

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by Andrew T

Brake Controller - I posted earlier that I had my max voltage (Tekonsha P3) set at about 6V and Boost 2. I was seeing a lot of front wheel brake dust so did some more testing. I had the wife observe me doing hard stops in a Walmart parking lot and we determined that the TV wheels lock at 9V so we backed it down to 8.8V.

On your Prodigy control try increasing the gain to the maximum setting and turning the boost off, the display will show b_ . This will give you maximum braking in a panic stop and smoother braking at low speed, though it will still be slightly aggressive at low speed. With this setting you will find you can modulate the trailer brakes pretty directly with the foot pedal.

90% of the Airstreams we set up wind up set this way, Occasionally we may wind the voltage down to 10 or 11 if they are too aggressive. If not aggressive enough we may go to B1 but that is rare with an Airstream.

Andy

Andrew T

Hi Andy, 4 questions related to the above:

1. What do you recommend for the controller settings on the Tekonsha Prodigy RF wireless unit & our 1960 Avion T20?

> We're currently towing with various rented TVs ranging from Nissan Pathfinders to 3/4T pick-ups, while we hunt a good used `06-10 Cayenne S V8 w/ Avion T20 at 2680# dry per factory, probably 3-3500 wet & loaded as restored, with newer `07 Camping World Drum Brakes (in resto by PO, see attached pix below).

PS - HW including Cub Drawbar Stinger is 340-345# on my Sherline w/ full 2x 30# LP tanks & all on tongue.


2. Do you also do that ball back slope you talked about in your last Hitch Hints article for Hensley Cub/Arrow hitches? ...if so, how accomplished?


3. Do you have an alternative recommended forward attachment location for your Cayenne/Taureg/Audi Q7 hitch/receiver reinforcement forward strut that attaches to the unibody - rather than to the rear suspension sub-frame?
(due to concerns about damaging the sub-frame mounting bushings)

(Porsche had a similar forward flat-bar strut to the unibody under the rear seats of their 1978-95 928 on their factory hitch made by Oris - rather than attaching to that car's rear suspension sub-frame.)


4. "Bonus Question" - Are you aware of anyone towing or towed a TT with a Porsche 928? <see my pix at my post #125 on pg.9 of 928s towing in Europe>
... & if so - how did that work out?
.... or how would a 928 be for towing a small 16-20 AS, Avion, etc. - especially older/lighter vintage ones?


Pix of our rig below fyi ....
.... & this cut-n-paste-up would ultimately be our Cayenne rig TBD -
http://www.airforums.com/forums/atta...8&d=1434495953

Thanx in Advance!
Tom
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[Andrew T]

Hi Tom

1) We use the same settings on the RF control as the installed one, the system of operation is the same in both.

2) To get reward angle of the torsion bar axis on a Hensley we need to build a custom shank/stinger than angles downward. This works very well, it eliminates the Hensley bump and gives more on center feel to the steering. You would want to have a permanent tow vehicle before going to that system however.

3) When we first connected to the rear suspension subframe on vehicles 30 years ago it was with a great deal of worry about what the consequences might be, vibration busing problems etc. However we only ever had a problem with an early Kia SUV and never any others before or since. We have a lot of customers with pretty high miles on Touaregs now and have not seen any bushing issues. With your hitch weight being as low as it is I am sure the stock receiver will be fine.
4) I have never set up a 928, I am sure it would tow brilliantly but I would have to look under one to see if a hitch is possible. There may not be enough ground clearance. It would be really cool if it could be done. Cooling system brakes etc. are all way overbuilt on that car so I doubt there would be any issue towing.

What tires are you running on the Avion?

Andy

[Tom_T]

Thanx Andy,

I've put my answers in bold - with some follow-on questions - inside your reply below.

The Porsche 928 factory option hitch pic is below - if anyone would consider towing a small & Light AS/kin/other TT with one, shoot me an email or PM for more info.

Cheers! .... & Have a Safe & Happy 4th & Thanx to those who have server &/or are serving - my son & 8 nephews included!
Tom
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Originally Posted by Andrew T

Hi Tom

1) We use the same settings on the RF control as the installed one, the system of operation is the same in both.

I don't see both Boost & voltage settings on my hand unit - unless that is the "Boost" number on the readout, but I usually have it about 6.0+/- (5.8 - 6.2) & that usually stops the rig (both Pathfinders & Ford/Dodge 3/4T pick-ups) effectively without drama (proper distances allowed of course).

What am I missing for the Boost setting at the hand held controller?

2) To get reward angle of the torsion bar axis on a Hensley we need to build a custom shank/stinger than angles downward. This works very well, it eliminates the Hensley bump and gives more on center feel to the steering. You would want to have a permanent tow vehicle before going to that system however.

I agree on waiting! So far I've had to "invest" in 3 stingers 2", 4" & 6" drop due to the varying receiver heights on the various vehicles! Dodge 2500's are ridiculously high at 26" & needed 8" - so I told Enterprise Commercial Rentals to give me only Ford or Chevy/GM only (20-22" hi).

I would probably get the drop made exactly what I'll need on the Cayenne S, since it's custom made anyway!

BTW - the Cub uses a hollow tube stinger - not the solid bar of the heavier duty Arrow.

Are there any Hensley Lifetime Warranty problems with using your custom made drop stinger?

Also, due to the drop of the Hensley Cub's Head & Bars - I don't have a lot of ground clearance - so how much will that down slope lower things?

3) When we first connected to the rear suspension subframe on vehicles 30 years ago it was with a great deal of worry about what the consequences might be, vibration busing problems etc. However we only ever had a problem with an early Kia SUV and never any others before or since. We have a lot of customers with pretty high miles on Touaregs now and have not seen any bushing issues. With your hitch weight being as low as it is I am sure the stock receiver will be fine.

I think the concern is with the high cost of Porsche parts - & Audi & VW are not far behind - that those suspension mounting bushings are not damaged nor worn out prematurely.

The HW & TW will probably be higher when I do tow my 73 Porsche 914-2.0 on a rental flat car hauler to shops for, & later to Porsche PCA Concours after resto.

Those rental trailers are usually about 2-3000# + 2170# for the 914 & 1-200# misc stuff = +/- 4500-5500#- but the rental trailers usually are not WD equipped, but some buddies' with their own which I could borrow have WD -
so would I need the Cayenne's hitch reinforced for that?

4) I have never set up a 928, I am sure it would tow brilliantly but I would have to look under one to see if a hitch is possible. There may not be enough ground clearance. It would be really cool if it could be done. Cooling system brakes etc. are all way overbuilt on that car so I doubt there would be any issue towing.

Porsche designed their Oris made factory hitch with the Euro bent-shank/ball hitch to fit under & behind the rear valance panel & the strut goes up between the spare/battery box & fuel tank, so the same approach with a custom made 2" receiver with the forward link following the same path.

Shoot me an email & I can email you some pix of it installed on a 928, the TUV tow rating sheet, etc. that I collected while researching 928s as our TV - if you want them for future reference.

TUV rated the 928 to tow TT's, boat, horse, etc. trailers for private use up to 4100#+, but the HW was only 165# I think - probably due to the removable bent-shank/ball design. So a proper 2" receiver should be fine for greater HW at the normal 10-15% of that 4100#+ tow rating.

I know of a few guys who have mounted Curt type receivers behind the bumper cover with a flip-up license plate to access it, but I'm not sure if they also did the reinforcing forward link to the unibody under the rear seats. They tow boats & race car trailers with their 928s.

Here's a pic of the Porsche/ORIS factory option 928 hitch uninstalled below fyi - the "C" plates bolt behing the impact bumper shocks' mounting points L & R behind the plastic bumper cover, & the strut plate mounts up under the rear seat (no idea if there is room for a flat tube or thicker plate strut).

What tires are you running on the Avion?

We're running MAXXIS ST225/75R15-D 8PR M8000 with no problems (new in 7/2012). They were recco'd by the vintage trailer resto guy who helped us with the purchase, PPI, some repairs, etc.

I'm really satisfied with them - despite the ongoing ST vs. LT tire debate on here!

BTW - since ours is the #2 Avion T20 off the line & the original equipment & interior colors seems to match, there's a very good chance that the trailer pictured in the 1960 Avion sales brochure is our trailer!

Andy

[bono]

Please could you let me know which shop you went to in RC? I am from the area and I am also interested in reinforcing the hitch in my BMW X5 diesel.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Knuff

A quick update on our "issue". Hitch reinforcement is being installed by a local shop in Redwood City. Will report the results. Thank you Andy! We had a good talk last Monday morning. Canam has shipped a modified Easylift. Spare tire is gone. Li-ion batteries from amsolar (200Ah) are en route and will be installed next weekend (likely under the dinette compartment - thanks ohiobrits!). Goal is to be ready for the real maiden voyage over July 4: NV, UT, AZ; 2 weeks, 2500 miles. It will be interesting to see the difference in towing behavior, MPG (We did the same trip before with the 20ft FC), oil temp, and generally. The plan is to take it slow over the Sierras - Carson City, Area 51 to Kodachrome Basin which will be our base camp. The trailer is going to be about 2000 lbs heavier than our previous FC - but I think that I will still be at 20MPG by taking it easy (cruise at 62 miles). With the FC, I was, well, driving the Cayenne like it had nothing attached to it .

[Ohiobrits]

Originally Posted by Andrew T

Brake Controller - I posted earlier that I had my max voltage (Tekonsha P3) set at about 6V and Boost 2. I was seeing a lot of front wheel brake dust so did some more testing. I had the wife observe me doing hard stops in a Walmart parking lot and we determined that the TV wheels lock at 9V so we backed it down to 8.8V.

On your Prodigy control try increasing the gain to the maximum setting and turning the boost off, the display will show b_ . This will give you maximum braking in a panic stop and smoother braking at low speed, though it will still be slightly aggressive at low speed. With this setting you will find you can modulate the trailer brakes pretty directly with the foot pedal.

90% of the Airstreams we set up wind up set this way, Occasionally we may wind the voltage down to 10 or 11 if they are too aggressive. If not aggressive enough we may go to B1 but that is rare with an Airstream.

Andy

Andrew T

Andy, gave this setting on my P3 a go (max voltage all the way up, no boost), about 250 miles, mostly flat and I have to say I like it very much. The AS now feels much better "integrated" with the TV when braking. Feels like one long vehicle rather than 2 vehicles braking independently. Certainly would not have thought to try that combination but it works well. Thanks!

[Knuff]

Hi Bono - It was Midnight Automotive in RC. We just returned from towing 2.5K miles and everything worked like a charm. I combined this with a modified Easylift I got from CanAm.

[Knuff]

So, here a quick update from our trip out to the West. I stopped posting 10 days ago because we entered areas where we not even had cell phone reception (nice way to escape).

Towing went better and better and as the Easylift got broken in, I managed to straighten every thing down to the last ½ chain adjustment so that weight distribution and balance of the airstream worked like a charm.

I played with keeping the spare tire in the back of the car vs back of the tt and honestly there was no difference. I opted for leaving it in the back of the tt = more space for our two dogs in the back of the Pepe.

After staying for 8 nights in Kodachrome Basin SP plus one night in Bryce Canyon, we headed back to CA. In Kodachrome, there was one 30ft classic (brand new model with ducted air) and all bells and whistles. TV was a Nissan Armada! Nice setup! I was not able to talk to the couple because our and their dogs started a bark fest and the next days, we missed each other.

Not a lot of airstream sightings on this trip (we counted in total 3 ).

For the trip back, we stopped twice. Once at Cathedral Gorge SP in Nevada and then again in an RV resort (Auburn Gold Country RV park in Auburn CA).

For the trip from Cathedral Gorge, we drove NV 93 and 50 via Ely, Eureka, Fallon, Reno, Donner Pass. Multiple mountain passes, windy roads, very nice drive. Shortly before the end of the long haul day (we always have one crazy long haul day). I took a picture of the computer readout on the way down from Donner Pass into the Central Valley. 18.4 MPG! Very happy with the setup, many people asked about how "THIS" car can tow such a large tt

(Don't get fooled by the June 23 date on the panel - I record some radio stations online before trips and play them during long trips; nice way to listen to your favorite home stations when on the road).

Interestingly, many people driving ½ ton pickups (F150 etc) asked me and "complained" about the "need" for a truck but that they would like to have a different vehicle if this would be possible. Well it is. I think that perhaps there are now few people at least thinking about Touareg, Cayenne, Q7, Jeep GC, BMW, MB, etc...

Overall, glad we pulled through with everything, we felt safe in all situations and the car never disappointed .

[Tom_T]

Nice looking rig Knuff!

It's nice to get away from coverage on a good road trip every now & then.

I agree on the idea of storing some of your own music, but unfortunately all of my Oldies stations locally & even nationally are now gone off playing 80's & 90's stuff - even the grandaddy "K-Earth 1-oh-1" KRTH 101.1 here in LA/SoCal that I've listened to since 1971! So I don't have a good source to save my 50's, 60's & early 70's (non-disco) music to save & will have to do something with digital of my old cassette tapes or off of CDs!


ALL -

We're looking at a few 20-40k +/- mile 06 Cayenne S Titanium Editions in our preferred Iceland Silver right now, & they may make it to my next step of having a local do a pre-PPI look-see for me.

Are there any Cayenne owners out there knowledgeable in the quirks of the Series 1 V8s near either Philly/Newark DE &/or Daytona Beach who could look at one or both for us, to tell me whether they're worth proceeding to the next step of a PPI?

TIA
Tom
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[bono]

Knuff - thank you for the hint with the hitch place in Bay Area!

Can anyone post / send a link to the photos with Can-Am hitch reinforcement of BMW X5 (E70)?

Many thanks!

[Knuff]

Bobo - how is your hitch reinforcement coming along?
Would be great to see how this is done on the BMW.

[bono]

The OE hitch is on national backorder (currently I have Euro hitch installed, but this needs to be taken out). I am not in big rush though. I am just ordering all fluids (brake, differential, transfer case, transmission) to prepare TV.

[Jay Counts]

Originally Posted by Knuff

I thought that I start a new Thread just with getting some information on different kind of setups and how people are feeling about their equipment. This is not for judging specific hitch setups, but just for gathering information about possible setups.

Let's start with our setup. We have been towing our 2014 20ft Flying Cloud with a 2014 Cayenne Diesel, equipped with an Equal-i-zer 10K. 15K miles in the last 18 months. We have no special hitch reinforcement.

We just traded our FC up to a 2015 International Signature 25FB and plan to use the same setup.

Towing so far is no big issue, plenty of power, never have the feeling that the Cayenne is/was too weak for the 20ft airstream - I have not had an uphill situation where I could not accelerate and this includes Tioga Pass in Yosemite and several other long inclines in CA and UT. Temp on the Pepper is usually 220-230 but can go up to 250 (rarely over) on long inclines. I usually drive it in Sport mode and switch to manual in mountainous terrain. Consumption is 18 MPG without paying attention to speed and with having fun on uphill climbs. 22 MPG is possible with attention.

Please tell me your experiences fellow VW, Porsche and Audi owners. I picked these three because Touareg/Cayenne is principally the same chassis and engine and the Q7 is closely related as well.

We just recently purchased a 2012 Touareg with factory installed hitch. Book states that we can tow up to 7700 lbs w a tongue weight of 616 lbs which limits the size of airstream we are planning to purchase. How have you handled the tongue weight difference between your new trailer and the 616 lb factory recommended max tongue weight.
Thanks in advance
Jay Counts

[Knuff]

Hi Jay - welcome to the club!

There is lots of information here and also from OhioBrits on this topic. In short, we have reinforced the hitch receiver (there are some images posted on #85 on this thread), added an Easylift WD hitch (welded in place by CanAm), and have modified the airstream by kicking out the 2 Interstate batteries and replaced them with Li-Ion that are under the bed. We also got rid of the spare tire on the airstream, upgraded to 16" Michelin light truck tires, and we got a full size spare tire that we place in the back of the trailer when traveling (we remove the mini spare from the Cayenne and leave it at home). Loaded for camping, the tongue weight of our 25FB International is still around 800lbs (I measured it on a recent trip), but as you can read in my recent report, towing was no issue on our last trip of 2,500 miles and multiple mountain ranges. The 25FB is particularly problematic with respect to tongue weight and the stated 860 lbs (or is it 840?) will probably be 100-200lbs higher when you measure it. I have no doubt that our 20FC back in time when I did not pay attention to tongue weight was probably close to 800-900 lbs because we loaded all our stuff onto the bed when traveling; we towed the 20FC for >15,000 miles in the last 1 ½ years and never had an issue - and this was without reinforcing the hitch receiver.

If you do a little research you will also find that the VW factory hitch underwent multiple "re-ratings" over the years but the design of the receiver did not change. On some Touaregs the same 616 lbs hitch has a 770 lbs sticker. Go figure. Also there is a lively discussion about WD and whether this affects the tongue weight, stress on the hitch receiver, etc.

[Ohiobrits]

Thought I'd post some actual weights from this weekend. Our 19 year old son freed up his very busy calendar ( ) to come camping with us so the Cayenne was carrying 4 people (essentially 3 adults plus my teenage daughter), our dog and two bundles of firewood and an almost full tank of diesel. This is probably 225 lbs more load than normal.

We have a local CAT scale so I stopped to get a weight with everyone onboard. I wanted to see how close the Cayenne was to GVWR and axle loads hitched and fully loaded. Based on my original calculations I thought that me, the wife and 300lbs in the back seat would be about all we could carry so I knew we would be pretty much maxing out the Cayenne load wise with 4 up, dog and firewood.

The TT was loaded for camping (full water, fridge etc and probably 50 lbs or so more weight than normal for my sons gear).

Numbers are as follows: -

Cayenne ratings, from manual:-
GVWR - 6283lb
FAWR - 3042lb
RAWR (no speed limit) - 3384lb
RAWR (60mph max - towing) - 3693lb
GCWR - 13999lb

Airstream
GVWR - 7600lb

Ticket is below and shows that I had the following margins to max: -
Front Axle - 242lb (3042-2800)
Rear Axle - 333lb (3693-3360)
GVWR - 123lb (6283-2800-3360)
GCWR - 1279lb (13999-12720)
Cayenne tires are rated at 2149 lbs each @ 50 psig (I run them at about 46 front and 48 rear) so no issues there.
Airstream estimated Gross (assuming previously measured 750lb* tongue) = 6910lb so 690lb of AS load remaining.

I added another 1/2" of WD on the ProPride jacks to get the rig level. Ride was similar to normal but definitely felt a bit different. 225lb does not sound like much additional weight to carry but it is close to 20% of my payload and it was noticeable. I suspect the steel springs are getting close to full compression at this point which will start to modify the handling. According to Porsche though, I'm good to rip down the Autobahn at 130 mph with these loads since I squeaked under the weight limit on the rear axle (3384) that brings into effect the 60mph towing limit. Not sure I'd try it, but there you go

So based on the weights we did not exceed any numbers but were close on Cayenne GVWR.

Hitched up with 800lb or so of tongue weight, 2 passengers and minimal additional load in the Cayenne is probably the sweet spot. 4 passengers and other load is pushing things but definitely serviceable for short trips.

Safe travels.

*Note - my 27FB was 900lb tongue from the factory. I moved the batteries to the rear and made some other mods to reduce tongue to 650 with Eaz-Lift and 2 Husky anti-sway units. It is now at 750lb with the ProPride hitch fitted.

[WaLee]

Joined the cayenne clan this weekend! It's an 06 CayenneS titanium edition with only 50k miles. It'll be the wife's daily driver. We'll use it to tow our 23' '06 safari "glamping". Going to bike events and places with hookups. No need to carry two generators and boats etc. We have an '06 duramax HD for more serious camping. I'm going to try it out in the stock configuration first. The tongue was are in the ballpark. Based on what I've read here we should be ok. My trailer is PP3 equipped. Gotta pick up another stinger to keep it simple.

WaLee
06. Safari 23
04 Duramax HD
O6 Cayenne S


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[WaLee]

Oh yea, pictures.....




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[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by WaLee

Oh yea, pictures.....

Attachment 243400Attachment 243401


Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums

Nice! .... Looks like a great score!

.... as you read in my prior posts, we're on the hunt for a similar Iceland Blue `06 CS-TI too .... still looking & checking on a few.

PS - Look out for Chippers etc. with that RED Cayenne - they really do look for red cars, as I found out with my first car back in the late `60's!

Cheers!
Tom
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