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Old 06-06-2015, 08:27 PM   #57
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Knuff, thanks for starting this thread. I was actually at Bay Area airstream today and I noticed what must have been your cayenne in the garage. My salesperson was showing me some add ons that owners have done in the indoor storage area. I thought it was peculiar that a suv with extended mirrors was sitting there. Also looking at a 25ft model and now concerned we need to rethink our TV choice. Did they say they can do any modifications to get them comfortable with hitching up?

Actually our salesperson mentioned that they have one customer towing a 25ft with a Cayenne and i asked whether they can contact the person to give him our email address. Have not heard from the guy yet. I specifically asked about his setup.
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Old 06-07-2015, 12:36 AM   #58
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So quite some development on our side. I mentioned that we were towing our 20FC with our Cayenne Diesel and Equalizer 1000lb WD hitch without issues.

Went to Bay Area Airstream Adventures yesterday to pick up our new 25FB international and when the tech saw the sticker on our hitch receiver, he called his boss over and they ultimately refused to hitch up the trailer. Liability issues and honestly they are probably just protecting their business. We ended up taking their truck rental for over the weekend maiden voyage but wife and I are now really thinking hard about our options.

1) just insist on hooking up the Airstream myself and play with balancing the load, ignoring the max tongue weight to be almost 200lb over the limit.

2) doing (1) and have the hitch reinforced according to Andy's specs.

If we do this, there is still the liability issue. My wife's argument is that she will never be able to relax when on the road. Last year, we towed >15,000 miles, so it is not that we are just using the Airstream around our neighborhood. If we cause an accident and someone gets hurt, we would be in deep sh.t.

This actually leaves us with the ultimate 1st world problem of biting the bullet and to trade the cayenne. But all options that we looked at today are butt ugly. I really do not like the look of any truck - they are useful, but it will be difficult. We looked into the Nissan Armada: nicest one of all options but quite exotic SUV; not many readily available. F150: if safety is our main concern, probably the most reasonable choice. From all the trucks, I liked the Tundra off road version most; perhaps something to get used to. The Toyota Sequoia would be the next option; at least not a truck. We might have a look at the Landcruiser as well; would be an expensive swap though and I have not looked at tongue weight on this one.

Did not think that this is going to happen and we are now pretty confused and really not sure what to do.

This said, we have reservations for a 2 week trip to Nev, Utah, Arizona starting in 3 weeks, so we need to make a decision pretty soon.

Arghhh...
We picked up our new 25Fb in Boise Idaho today and towed it home to Salt Lake City with our 2015 Q7 TDI. Absolutley amazing! I used a Blue Ox 1000 Tow Bar and moved as much weight to the back of the trailer as possiblel, spare tire, generator, tools, everything I could think of. I had weighed everything before we left home to go get it. Using linear math I figured tongue weight was about 695 lbs. A little over the 661 listed but close. I am going to get AGM batteries and move them under the rear dinette at some point.
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Old 06-07-2015, 07:28 AM   #59
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We picked up our new 25Fb in Boise Idaho today and towed it home to Salt Lake City with our 2015 Q7 TDI. Absolutley amazing! I used a Blue Ox 1000 Tow Bar and moved as much weight to the back of the trailer as possiblel, spare tire, generator, tools, everything I could think of. I had weighed everything before we left home to go get it. Using linear math I figured tongue weight was about 695 lbs. A little over the 661 listed but close. I am going to get AGM batteries and move them under the rear dinette at some point.
Let me clarify, the hitch rating is 661#. The trailer weighs 5500#. I added 250# of gear and 250# of water. so the trailer tongue weight was above 10%. I will also remove one of the propane tanks. It does not use very much propane this time of year and that drops the tongue weight by about 45# also.
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Old 06-07-2015, 11:01 AM   #60
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I recommend you speak with Andy Thompson at Can-Am RV Centre about your situation and get his advice. I think I read that there is someone in CA who does Can-Am style hitch reinforcements. FWIW, I had a local hitch mechanic tell me I had to have a pickup with 4 wheel rear axles to pull my trailer. Most people just don't have a command of the facts cause it is hard to get.
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Old 06-07-2015, 07:25 PM   #61
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Thanks Jerry -

Yes, after a first panic attach, we are back to "normal"

Checking car dealerships was no fun and nothing was convincing.

After contemplating we will look into making some of the mods (ohiobrits: battery and inverter relocation) and LT tires, ditching the spare. I will give Andy a call tomorrow. I somehow hope that a local hitch shop will be able to fabricate the pipe (it requires some special equipment for bending I think), or perhaps CanAm can ship it (unsure). The goal is to bring the tongue weight down to the Cayenne specs and to use a light weight WD hitch (not the EqualiZer that we currently have) so that we are not only safe from the point of view of many but also safe from any liability issues.
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Old 06-07-2015, 07:29 PM   #62
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And - I am sorry that I hijacked my own thread. Let's go back to the fun experiences. If people don't mind, I will post updates on our progress and of course, hope to be able to report direct comps between our F150 experience this weekend (it was ok ) and the first steps with the new setup (hope is running high)
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Old 06-08-2015, 12:12 PM   #63
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Knuff - sounds like you are going through some of the same decisions most of us are or have gone through.

A few things.
The Touareg / Cayenne receiver was rated to 770 lbs a few years ago. Not sure why it changed but remember in Europe there is no WD so dropping almost 800lbs back there with no WD would be a handful. I would not want to tow like that at all. Don't know, but I suspect the limit has as much to do with handling dynamics as it does with receiver strength (up to a point).

I towed my 27FB back from the dealers at 900lbs tongue with no mods (but with WD) and nothing happened, receiver did not fall off....

Your dealer appears to be super conservative. If he is that up tight he should be measuring the actual tongue weight of each AS prior to hitching up (the "catalogue" tongue weights are a guide at best), have you run over a CAT scale to make sure you are within tire, axle and TV payload limits. Receiver rating is just one piece of the puzzle. Maybe they had some issues with customer complaints relative to setup / ratings.

In contrast, my dealer had a few customers and a business associate (looking to start an AS rental business) come over to see my rig. It was definitely a novelty. They were not concerned with ratings of any kind (tires, payload, hitch). They just made sure everything was (kinda) level. They made sure I knew how to hitch and unhitch (they made me run through the process whilst they watched). I got some advice on brake controller set up (6V) and then was sent on my way.

Nobody on here can tell you what you should do - that's your decision but you are going about it the right way i.e. making sure you have all the info. I have no regrets picking the Cayenne as my TV.

Good luck.
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Old 06-08-2015, 12:26 PM   #64
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I warned my dealer I was going to be driving away with non-traditional setup. Their response was "we're not the towing police"


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Old 06-08-2015, 03:38 PM   #65
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Knuff, out of interest which F150 did they give you? Turbo 6 gasser or V8? What size wheels did it come with?
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Old 06-08-2015, 04:22 PM   #66
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I was talking on Sat at the Steve McQueen Car Show fundraiser for Boys' Republic in Chino Hills CA with one of our vintage trailer folks who tows their vintage 22' +/- Holiday House at 3500# wet/loaded he thinks (not aerodynamic if you've seen them), with his 2006 Taureg V8 (4.2L) & he doesn't even both using the EZ-Lift or Reese type WD/AS hitch he has with it, & has no problems - & they tow from SoCal to Pismo & other longish trips to vintage trailer rallies with it & is very happy with the T-reg V8 as both an "extra car" & TV. He installed his hitch & brake controller himself with no mods as with the CanAm set-up.

We actually talked with him at the Pismo vintage rally 2-3 years back about towing our Avion T20 (which is aerodynamic & about the same wet/loaded weight or less) with one of the T-reg/Cay-S/Q7 V8 or diesel Triad.

One thing another AirForums member on here who is also a Porsche dealer service tech warned me about, is that the CanAm strut could damage the rear suspension sub-assemly's mounting bushings - if the forward strut link added by CanAm from the hitch to the Cay/T-reg/Q7 at the rear suspesion framing, by putting that suspension sub-assembly under torque stress, & essentially thereby putting added side pressure on the rubber bushings mounting it to the uni-body.

In the pix posted here & elsewhere for that mod, it appears to be the case. He said it would be better to mount that to a uni-body hard point made to take the stress from the WD & receiver.

So that's something else to consider.
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Old 06-08-2015, 05:21 PM   #67
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We have never done as much research for a vehicle as we did for the TV for our 2013 Int'l Sig 30FB.

Didn't like the pickup truck route, so we tried all the Euro-diesels & Jeep GC ecodiesel. Had a deposit on a GL-350, when I (the wife) reluctantly decided to bite the bullet and go look at a 2015 F150 EcoBoost. It had the most beautiful panoramic moonroof! It matched the Airstream! It not only had heated seats -- it had AIR-CONDITIONED seats! So much floor room in the back seat for our 2 littles. Not to mention the cool disco colors you can choose for the interior ambient lights.

Not to be all fluffy, the truck comes with awesome bells and whistles that make it super easy for towing our 30' AS -- integrated brake controller and exterior lights.

Ultimately, it was a joint decision to choose the TV, but DH wanted to be certain that I was happy with it and I love driving it! Never thought I'd be a Ford Truck Girl -- EVER!
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Old 06-09-2015, 12:24 AM   #68
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Knuff, out of interest which F150 did they give you? Turbo 6 gasser or V8? What size wheels did it come with?

It was the V6, Sterling. Ride was ok but very stiff compared to the Cayenne. But it was a different trailer as well. I am actively pursuing the Cayenne route with the goal of hitting the road in 3 weeks. Had a good talk with Andy this morning. Trying to get a 200Ah Li battery installed in the under-dinette compartment in the back by then as well plus Michelin tires, hitch reinforcement and an Easylift with some mods from CanAm. Will post updates as the journey continues....


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Old 06-09-2015, 11:25 AM   #69
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Hello Knuff,

Let me explain what I have learned so far in towing my 25FB with an Audi Q7. For those reading this post that do not know, the Audi Q7, Porsche Cayenne, and VW Touareg are all built on the same platform and can use similar engines, transmissions and suspensions. I work for Audi and have inspected the underpinnings of all three in the last month. Our Shop Foreman worked for ,and was trained by, Audi AG in Germany for 10 years. In a prior post it was mentioned that the Can-Am method of bracing would put stresses on components that were not designed for it. This is absolutely true. A long phone call to one of his engineer friends at Audi in Germany confirmed this and also explained how WD hitches actually work. Because of this I have been working to get the tongue weight down near the 661# that the hitch is rated for instead. "Weight Distributing Hitch# is a misnomer. They do not transfer weight. They transfer load. The tongue weight remains the same. What happens is the load is transferred in order to bring the TV and trailer to level and thereby provide optimum braking and handling, especially in emergency situations. I bought a tire storage bag with handle and move the spare under the rear dinette (-52#) and then put it in the back of the Audi while camped. I removed one of the propane bottles (-55#) when I discovered how little was used just running the refrigerator and water heater. I am planning to replace the batteries with AGM units and mount them under the rear dinette storage area (-90#). You need to add the weight of the WD hitch head, in my case 60#. That will puts me at 695# (832-197+63). I ordered a Sureline Tongue weight scale to be more exact. I believe that by repositioning things while towing I can get to the amount that the hitch is rated for and be above the 10% recommended hitch weight for the trailer (5500# plus 800# of gear and water. I believe this is the safest way to go about it.
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Old 06-09-2015, 12:38 PM   #70
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This discussion has been on and off and on again at least since we bought our '11 Touareg new. Vee Dub handed out some 770# hitch weight stickers in about 2012 to replace the 661# rating...if that's any help to anyone. Although we use an equal-I-zer hitch on our stock receiver, this photo doesn't really count as we're on he road with the Bambi.


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