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Old 10-20-2015, 03:11 PM   #211
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bearded, jump the small Airstreams and get the smallest of the large, a 25 which comes in three completely different configurations, load it like you would one of the smaller Airstreams you're thinking about and use the tips in this thread to manage your hitch weight.

We went from 20' to 25', a world of difference in space, comfort, ease of towing and more brakes (two axles) to stop it. Barely noticed the difference when towing, if at all. The 25 is more stable and easier to back up.
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Old 10-20-2015, 06:35 PM   #212
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bearded,

I agree with dkottum on upgrading the size. A lot of people start small and upgrade (a lot...). Start bigger and save yourself big $ in the long run. In addition to the points that dkottum makes on brakes etc, the bigger AS's also have bigger water storage tanks which you may not be thinking of now but could be a significant limit on how you will use it in the future. The 22 in particular has small tanks, the 23 more comparable with bigger AS's.

I believe Knuff had a smaller AS - maybe he will comment on his reasons for upgrade and perspective now having lived with both. I can only comment based on owning a 27FB - I'm VERY glad I did not go with a 23FB which I was seriously considering. The 25FB would have been OK. I have only once thought, wow, wish I had a shorter AS (very tight spot which I did not notice until later was listed as no longer than 22ft - oops, got in and out OK though with my near 28ft AS). I have however glanced more than once at the longer AS's. Not seriously considering an upgrade but I would only go up in size at this point.

If non of the comments above have made you reconsider and you still have your heart set on a smaller model, definitely go for the dual axle 23FB. With that AS, a flat tire won't be the end of the world (you can tow short distances with one flat), you get 4 drum brakes (2x the stopping power over the 22), better stability over the single wheel and decent water tank sizes.

On your question regarding WD. It is true that VW clearly states in the manual not to use it. My Porsche manual does not, in fact the receiver came with 2 tongue weight ratings on the sticker one when using WD one without - both the same at 616lbs. The receiver is the same PN as the VW, bolted to the same chassis etc so why the difference? Mystery to me. I would use WD. For the lighter tongue weights it will still give you some benefit although not necessarily as much as for a 700lb plus tongue weight.

Note that the 2 AS's you list both have unloaded tongue weights below 10% of gross so expect to load them in such a way to ensure a min of 10% of the loaded weight to ensure good stability. This may mean more than the listed tongue weight in reality. This will not be an issue for the Touareg.

As far as reinforcement goes, for the 2 small AS's I probably wouldn't bother since you will not be applying much WD load. See how it goes, regular inspections and reinforce later if you feel the need. I sometimes wonder if it is required at all. I have got into the habit of inspecting other people's receivers (I know, get a life) and I'm often struck by how puny some of the receivers are on trucks that have a higher tongue weight rating and are rated for WD. The hitch on the VW is very stout!
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Old 10-20-2015, 07:00 PM   #213
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Thanks dkottum and ohiobrits!

You both made great points and I agree with them all for the most part. I love the 25' twin floor plans and who knows what kind of deal I might get on a used one, but my current size ceiling is the 23FB partly due to width considerations when it comes to getting it into my backyard for storage. At least I am reassured that the Toureg can handle the bigger units!
Thank you both for your advice and special thanks to you Ohiobrits for starting this thread. I've read every post so far and am beginning to get a feel for what I want. I'll keep you informed!

Steve
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Old 10-21-2015, 05:43 AM   #214
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Hi Steve

You will be fine with the 23 FB without reinforcing the hitch receiver. It is important to use torsion bars with plenty of travel or range of motion. You want a torsion bar with lots of taper in its design. I have found the Eaz-Lift brand to be the best in that area. 800 pound bars will work well with the 23 FB.

Also redrill the hole in the shank so the ball can be moved in as close as possible to the back bumper. This also reduces strain on the receiver and improves handling.

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Old 10-21-2015, 07:47 AM   #215
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We bought a 2014 Touareg TDI last fall for the newly purchased 22' Sport.
New to towing an RV we used an EZ lift hitch and the Touareg towed as if nothing was in back of it.
After 3 weekends we upgraded to an International 23FB keeping the EZ lift hitch. There was no appreciable difference in towing, in fact the heavier 23 was smoother and easier to back down.
We wound up with over 4000 miles of towing this summer without any worries.
I think the pairing is perfect, there wasn't any instance where I thought we needed more....not even a larger trailer.
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Old 01-04-2016, 08:00 PM   #216
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hey all

We have a 2012 Cayenne S [V-8] pulling a 20' FC 2012, and recently fell in love with a 26U! First i thought i would have to jump on a bigger TV - and looking at recommendations in the forum i checked out the details of a few SUVs,

In my research it seems that the common knowledge that SUV's such as 'Denali's are capable of towing 27' or greater trailers [Airstream2Go uses Yukon Denali to tow 28'] and that Cayennes are not, is very complicated.

Setting aside wheelbase differences [116 v 118 based on search], the Denali is tow rated to 8300 and Cayenne to 7700, enough for a 26U. However, when it comes to load capacity, the Cayenne handily beats it. When you plug in the data from the manufacturers [online in case of Denali, from manual in case of Cayenne] into a towing capacity worksheet - and then i plug in my family, gear etc, in my case the Denali is over capacity [only a little, likely within tolerance] and the Cayenne is still under.

Of course, the hitch weight is a problem for both vehicles, but that seems to be the case of moving batteries and/or leaving a propane tank at home etc.

i'm not intending to get into an argument or debate, but i found the numbers don't lie and i find it interesting that the Denali is used to tow larger SUV's without much criticism, while the Cayenne/Touareg is constantly debated. I find it doubly interesting that a company 'airstream2go' uses the Denali - anyone know if they do any modifications to TV or to Trailer?

in any case, i'm going to look at the 26U and get some advice from Can-Am and my local dealer before i commit to the combination.

anyone crunch the same numbers?
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Old 01-05-2016, 01:08 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ModernVista View Post
hey all

We have a 2012 Cayenne S [V-8] pulling a 20' FC 2012, and recently fell in love with a 26U! First i thought i would have to jump on a bigger TV - and looking at recommendations in the forum i checked out the details of a few SUVs,

In my research it seems that the common knowledge that SUV's such as 'Denali's are capable of towing 27' or greater trailers [Airstream2Go uses Yukon Denali to tow 28'] and that Cayennes are not, is very complicated.

Setting aside wheelbase differences [116 v 118 based on search], the Denali is tow rated to 8300 and Cayenne to 7700, enough for a 26U. However, when it comes to load capacity, the Cayenne handily beats it. When you plug in the data from the manufacturers [online in case of Denali, from manual in case of Cayenne] into a towing capacity worksheet - and then i plug in my family, gear etc, in my case the Denali is over capacity [only a little, likely within tolerance] and the Cayenne is still under.

Of course, the hitch weight is a problem for both vehicles, but that seems to be the case of moving batteries and/or leaving a propane tank at home etc.

i'm not intending to get into an argument or debate, but i found the numbers don't lie and i find it interesting that the Denali is used to tow larger SUV's without much criticism, while the Cayenne/Touareg is constantly debated. I find it doubly interesting that a company 'airstream2go' uses the Denali - anyone know if they do any modifications to TV or to Trailer?

in any case, i'm going to look at the 26U and get some advice from Can-Am and my local dealer before i commit to the combination.

anyone crunch the same numbers?
The difference it the Denali is bigger & heavier on the TV itself than the Cay/Treg with similar loading of people/gear/etc.

I know that CanAm has set-up Cayennes for 27-30 AS trailers, so you may want to contact Andy T. on what you need to do with yours.

There are also several others on AirForums who are towing 27 AS with Cay/Treg TVs, so do some searching & contact them directly.

Our `60 Avion T20 is much lighter at 3-3500# wet & loaded, so I won't have that issue whenever we find the right Cay S for our permanent TV in coming months (we've decided to only consider 2008> Series 2 or 3 Cay S though, & dropped the 206 Cay S Titanium Ed. after looking seriously at several during 2015).

Good Luck & have fun!
Tom
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Old 01-05-2016, 06:53 PM   #218
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Hello Modern,

After much searching in the forums and some PMs with folks pulling with Cayennes we opted for a Treg TDI to pull our Eddie Bauer 28. Other than sometimes thinking more space in the back of the TV might be useful, we have been very happy with the set up recommended by Andrew T at Can Am RV. The available torque makes pulling the AS a non-issue, at least in eastern North America. Some on here have been through the mountains and can advise in their experiences. Having a is very usable for daily commutes is a plus, and parking the AS has been a breeze, even in some tight spots as the Treg so far seems more manoeuvrable than the truck I once pulled with. Given that the Treg and Cayenne are similar as far as towing is concerned you should be ok, but Andy T can provide great advice.


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Old 01-05-2016, 07:15 PM   #219
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They can't sell the new or certified with the TDI right now and I don't know what VW will do to make them legal. Anyone towed with the Touareg gas V6, how is it?
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Old 01-05-2016, 08:29 PM   #220
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We have a few customers with the V6 Gas Touareg. The newer gas models that are mated to the 8 Speed ZF transmission work very nicely. If you did not know it was a V6 you would likely not guess it to be one.

I have not been able to look under one yet but the new Jaguar SUV Diesel looks interesting and the price point is about the same as the Treg.

Andy
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Old 01-06-2016, 07:58 PM   #221
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We just returned from yet another 3,000 miles trip from CA through NV, AZ, and back and I can report that we had no issues and lots of fun. We noticed MANY SUV-Airstream combinations including T-regs, Jeeps, Nissan Amadas, Toyotas, ... you name it. It seems that more and more people realize that one does not need a tank to pull an airstream.

After now having put almost 25K on our Cayenne in the last 2 years, with about 23K towing and perhaps another 1K off roading, I can tell that beside the annoying oil service every 5K (and the Blue tank flush every 10K), we had no service related stops at the dealer.

Question for the current owners of Cayennes, T-regs, Audis or other similar SUVs:
How many miles have you towed with your current SUV or how much do you tow per year?
Do you think that using the SUV mainly (or in our case almost exclusively) for towing has adverse affects? I know that wear and tear might be enhanced, but for my part, I am not going crazy when crossing the Sierras or mountain passes in Utah or Colorado, but still we have gone almost on every trip over 7,000+ mountain passes. Frankly, I never felt that I am underpowered, even after swapping the 20ft for a 25FB.

So, how much do y'all tow per year, season?
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Old 01-06-2016, 08:24 PM   #222
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They can't sell the new or certified with the TDI right now and I don't know what VW will do to make them legal. Anyone towed with the Touareg gas V6, how is it?
I've read in the automotive press that the 3.0L V6 TDIs from VW/P/A are only needing a software adjustment for the cold running program to meet smog control tests, since they already have the additive & other smog control equipment which the 2.0L TDIs lacked - in additiotn to their "smog test cheater program".

Maybe Knuff & some of you other 3.0L TDI owners can tell us what VW, Porsche or Audi is telling you.

I'm wondering how the current CA owners of them will even get their TDI cars' registration renewed if this is your time for the every other year smog test?

IIRC the 2016> Cayenne TDIs are or will be a Porsche designed 3.2L or 3.6L TDI - so out of that VW debacle loop.

Knuff - the Porsche Certified Techs whith whom I've spoken have all said that a constant diet of towing will work them harder & stuff will wear out faster - more so the more & heavier you're towing - e.g.: our relatively light 1960 Avion T20 vs a heavier modern 25, 27, 30' AS.

How much so will vary, & also depend upon driving habits & road conditions, etc.

However, this is not just a small TV issue, but rather something across the board - even for the "big ole pick-em-up truck & SUV" crowd.

It's not dissimilar to long trip freeway miles being kinder & gentler on your cars/trucks, than is bumper-to-bumper & short trip city traffic - or racing being the worst. It's a basic wear, stress & strain issue.

Cheers!
Tom
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Old 01-07-2016, 09:22 AM   #223
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2014 Cayenne Diesel needs new home

In the proverbial case of putting the cart before the horse, I bought the TV before the AS. And now, as it frequently does, circumstances have changed and the AS will not be in our future. So, I'm offering my '14 Diesel Cayenne, Platinum edition with 20K miles to anyone looking at upgrading their TV. Just send me an email to popcycle at mac dot com.
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Old 01-07-2016, 09:33 AM   #224
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I've read in the automotive press that the 3.0L V6 TDIs from VW/P/A are only needing a software adjustment for the cold running program to meet smog control tests, since they already have the additive & other smog control equipment which the 2.0L TDIs lacked - in additiotn to their "smog test cheater program".

Maybe Knuff & some of you other 3.0L TDI owners can tell us what VW, Porsche or Audi is telling you.

I'm wondering how the current CA owners of them will even get their TDI cars' registration renewed if this is your time for the every other year smog test?

IIRC the 2016> Cayenne TDIs are or will be a Porsche designed 3.2L or 3.6L TDI - so out of that VW debacle loop.
///////
Tom, beside sending apologetic letters and extending the warranty to 100K miles, not a lot has come from Porsche yet. Although the warranty extension is very nice talking about wear and tear. I am hoping that Porsche will continue offering a Diesel engine. In Europe, in addition to the VW 3L engine they offer a sweet beast with a larger engine and >800lbs of torque, but with the current developments I doubt that this one will make to the US in foreseeable time.
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