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Old 07-26-2015, 02:22 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by deepfish View Post
Ok, great to know. I am a bit concerned with how far the ball will be from my receiver tip (12"). Im trying to find out if that is an issue before I install it. Murray
Andy T at CanAm usually recco's it being as close as possible to the rear axle & bumper, so you might want to scroll up to one of his posts on here & PM or email him on the question. 12" seems like a really long tow bar to me!

I'm using a Hensley Cub with a stinger, so it's a completely different set-up than yours, but I've also "towed on ball" in the past & don't recall any of them being 12" back from the receiver.

Cheers!
Tom
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Old 07-26-2015, 02:34 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by WaLee View Post
Oh yea, pictures.....

Attachment 243400Attachment 243401

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WaLee -

I don't know what mileage your 06 CS-TI has on it, but did you check if the coolant pipes update, ignition coils update, front lower control arms/bushings & cardan shaft/mid-bearing were done on it?

(latter usually 2 show up +/- 40k mi & 60-100k +/- mi respectively)

If you don't mind, I'd appreciate it if you could PM or email me with that info & the mileage & price you got yours for, for my reference as a recent sales comp.

I've some good prospects in our color, so recent sales & the other info would be helpful, but no worries if you don't want to disclose.

Thanx!
Tom
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Old 07-26-2015, 03:01 PM   #171
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Ok, great to know. I am a bit concerned with how far the ball will be from my receiver tip (12"). Im trying to find out if that is an issue before I install it. Murray


Here is our CanAm modified Easylift receiver/ball piece. It is very tight.

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Old 08-11-2015, 01:05 PM   #172
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We are towing a 2015 23FB with a 2014 VW Touareg TDi and loving it. No problems on hills, be they long or short/curvy. On our drive from Vancouver, BC to the SF Bay Area and back in March we averaged about 15 miles/US gal (14.9 l/100 km).

You are right the Cayenne and Touareg are pretty much the same, except for sticker price. One of us drives a Carrera and we thought it would it would be fun if the other drove a Cayenne, but we couldn't find a used one that would do the trick.
Can you share which weight distribution system you have and which brake controller.
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Old 08-14-2015, 10:48 AM   #173
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Thanks Jerry -

Yes, after a first panic attach, we are back to "normal"

Checking car dealerships was no fun and nothing was convincing.

After contemplating we will look into making some of the mods (ohiobrits: battery and inverter relocation) and LT tires, ditching the spare. I will give Andy a call tomorrow. I somehow hope that a local hitch shop will be able to fabricate the pipe (it requires some special equipment for bending I think), or perhaps CanAm can ship it (unsure). The goal is to bring the tongue weight down to the Cayenne specs and to use a light weight WD hitch (not the EqualiZer that we currently have) so that we are not only safe from the point of view of many but also safe from any liability issues.
What is it that you don't like about the Equalizer? My dealer is talking me into installing it on my Touareg and a 23 ft Airstream. He said Reese with cams is too heavy and ProPride would be overkill?
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Old 08-14-2015, 12:00 PM   #174
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What is it that you don't like about the Equalizer? My dealer is talking me into installing it on my Touareg and a 23 ft Airstream. He said Reese with cams is too heavy and ProPride would be overkill?
Hi Lia,

Equalizer was one recommended by the vintage trailer resto guy who helped us with the Avion purchase & set-up, & others we've met have liked Blue-Ox, Reese, etc. for their own reasons. So you may get all sorts of folks' likes & dislikes on any & all of them, but best to go by what folks say who actually used them (I haven't so I cannot).

However, as to your guy's advice on the ProPride (similar to Hensley in design & operation & I did seriously look at it too) - with the 4500-4600-ish gross trailer wt. you'd mentioned elsewhere, both the ProPride & Hensley Arrow would be overkill at a 10,000 lb rating & in the mid-$2000 price range. However, they won't make any big mark-up on either ProPride nor Hensley & most I found were very reluctant to sell them for that reason - but the Hensley Cub should fit your needs perfectly for only a little more than a top of the line Equalizer, Blue Ox, Centerline, etc. WD hitch with the Anti-sway included/added. .... IF you want to consider it & have them install it for you, of course.

For that type of PPP hitch you'll only need the Hensley Cub good for up to 6000# GTVW & 600# HW for the mid-teen-$1000s - unless your 23D has a GTVW over 6000#, as well as a number of other "traditional" WD hitches in the $800-1200+/- range with anti-sway (either integral or added on depending upon the design of each) - whereas the base level Cub with the same tensioner chains set-up (vs. jacks) & ostensibly better anti-sway control/elimination will only run $1300-ish.

So not a huge difference pricewise there & no overkill IMHO, & well worth considering a Cub - vs. IIRC you said the dealer wanted $1000 or $1200 for the Equalizer.

Call Andy T. too for his 3rd party opinion, since he knows them all & isn't trying to sell you something, like your dealer is (the latter may have better profit on the other hitches & lean their recco's). Terry Powell at Hensley may have some deals on their Cubs he can give you for a break on pricing as well, so worth a call to him too.

I've already given what I liked about the Cub & the $15-1600 I paid was worth the +2-400 over the other WD+AS options for our Avion.

If you got the single axle 23' AS, then you may want to go a little higher on the anti-sway scale for stability & safety's sake (as we did with ours). The single axles can turn & maneuver easier & tighter than dual or triple axle trailers, but can be a little more squirelly at high speeds too due to that benefit.

I don't know if I mentioned it before, but in either case for axle count, the Hensley/PP ones will also generally give you a tighter turning radius than the other typical WD hitches, which I've found very helpful in a few tight RV spaces & other times trying to back, turn around, & otherwise maneuver our rig.

You'll get it figured out & there's lots of folks willing to help on here & in your local FL & NJ Airstream clubs, etc.

I'm not trying to push my nor any hitch, but just trying to clarify some misconceptions relayed by your AS dealer on them, & encouraging you to consider all options & continue to talk to folks with other WD/AS hitch options as well, as you're doing above.

PS - IIRC from a guy who worked for a local SoCal AS dealer here, when we were chatting trailer stuff recently, he said that they have some special distribution deals with certain hitch makers, & I think that Equalizer was one of them, but not Reese. So that may be why your guy is downplaying the Reese with cams, cuz I know at least some folks are using them successfully with the <25' AS & other TTs + Touareg/Cayenne/Q7 TVs on here & at the vintage trailer rallies where we go.

Good Luck!
Tom
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Old 08-21-2015, 07:59 PM   #175
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I have an 06 23 footer with a propride on it. The listed tongue wt for the trailer is just a few pounds out if the sticker. (Without thePP). Should i be concerned? Been using the truck to tow but want to setup the Cayenne. 06 cayenne

Would switching to a hensley cub make more sense overall? I bought the ProPride used and could get out of it what i paid for it.


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Old 08-22-2015, 10:15 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by WaLee View Post
I have an 06 23 footer with a propride on it. The listed tongue wt for the trailer is just a few pounds out if the sticker. (Without thePP). Should i be concerned? Been using the truck to tow but want to setup the Cayenne. 06 cayenne

Would switching to a hensley cub make more sense overall? I bought the ProPride used and could get out of it what i paid for it.


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WaLee, in my opinion you have already bought the best hitch money can buy if safety and sway avoidance are the primary concerns. The cub is lighter (not sure of the exact values) and will provide the same safety and security as the PP however there are a few things to consider when comparing the two:-

Tongue weight and trailer weight are limited for the Cub. Make very sure your AS does not exceed those values. AS are typically heavier on the tongue than the catalogue value.
Many people upsize AS if they start small. This may be you down the road. If you have the Cub, you will be upgrading the hitch as well and having lived with a PPP hitch, your upgrade would almost certainly be another PPP hitch = $$$$
With the PP you are adding about 100lbs to the tongue compared to a conventional hitch with some form of sway control. The Cub is still heavy, probably still adds 50 or 60 lbs over a conventional hitch. For that amount of weight saving (PP to Cub) I'd not bother.
The Cayenne receiver is rated to 616 lbs tongue weight (today), it was rated to 771 lbs a few years ago. There was a long discussion on Club Touareg about why the rating was changed without any conclusion (the hitch on the VW and Porsche are the same). If you have an older Cayenne it may well be rated to 771 - check your manual.
You can reinforce the receiver - details above. For a 23 it's a toss up to reinforce or not (in my opinion). With a 23 and PP (or Hensley) I'd recommend reinforcement. The PPP hitches add tongue weight and do not transfer weight when applying WD as easily as conventional hitches due to the hitch geometry which means you will be cranking on a decent amount of WD load to get things balanced. The reinforcement makes the receiver more able to handle the upward moment that results when WD is applied.

In summary, since you have the PP I'd stick with it. I'd recommend that you consider hitch reinforcement if you plan on racking up some serious miles and keeping the combo for a while. The Cayenne is a very capable TV and from a chassis point of view will handle the 23 and PP tongue weight with ease. If you did not have the PP, a well set up Eaz-Lift with sway control (about 100lbs lighter tongue) would probably have been my choice for a 23 but I would not go back to that arrangement from where you are.

If you can, take your setup to a scale and dial in the WD and AS loading. If you are not sure what to do, ask here. If you do not have access to scales, there are some good instructions (I think posted above) on how to set up a WD hitch using wheel well measurements which works well. Once fine tuned, you will have a spectacular combination. Even without, you already have a superior combination than the majority of people out there.

Enjoy!
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Old 08-22-2015, 08:22 PM   #177
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Loose hitch in receiver.

In case any of the Toureg, Q7, Cayenne crowd have a loose hitch in their receiver (terrible affliction), here is a pretty easy fix that seems to work pretty well.

My PP stinger was originally very tight in the receiver on my Cayenne but has developed a bit of free play over time. It occasionally makes a noise during slow corners as the stinger shifts in the receiver which can be a bit annoying given that the PP is otherwise silent in operation. Got the idea from another thread on here about welding on the hitch shaft, there were a few people on that thread that were using shims instead. Here is what I did.

Using 18 ga steel sheet (Lowes) cut out a piece using tin snips that is about 6" long and 3.5" wide, fold if using a hammer and a block of wood (or preferably a vice if you have one) along the length. Insert into the receiver with about 1/2" protruding with one side vertical, the other across the top. Put a cut at the top corner so you can bend 2 tabs over (stops the shim from sliding too far in). Mark and drill for the hitch pin. I made up some thinner (24 ga) and smaller shims for the top where there was more free play. There is one in there now but I expect I'll need maybe one or 2 more as the WD conforms the shim to the inside profile of the receiver. The PP stinger is now very tight from side to side (takes some effort to push in) but has a little play at the top still. I'm no expert with sheet metal so it does not look too pretty but overall it's much more snug now. No noises so far.

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Old 08-23-2015, 07:50 PM   #178
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WaLee -

Glad to see you survived the fires up there!

As OhioBrits said, the Cub (ours) has a 6000# trailer wt & 600# HW - so your AS would have to be in range.

The Cayennes with all engines from 2003-10 had 7716# towing wt. & 770# HW ratings, but the gas V6s will work awfully hard at high revs in the top end of that range.

So your pretty red 06 CayS-TI will be fine in that respect HW & GTVW.

I don't see us ever going bigger than our little vintage 1960 Avion T20, so thinking ahead & buying the bigger Arrow or PP wasn't an issue for us. You'll need to decide for yourselves, or stow the PP just in case, if you decide to downsize to the Cub. If you decide to, then call Terry Powell at Hensley & he may have a deal to offer &/or a used one reconditioned by Hensley & both will still carry their Lifetime warranty.

For now I would buy a Sherline Tongue/Hitch Wt. scale & get your exact HW with the PP on (as Brits said it about 100#), & our Cub was about 50-60# I think. Then you can decide based on how much you're over the 770# - if any (at 2006 MY, warranty negation won't be a concern).

There are other strategies for reducing HW discussed above, including moving the battery (our PO put an Optima 12V under the dinette cuz the OE battery was a hard to find odd shaped long & narrow battery in the orig. box on the TT front/A-frame base, only replaceable with a current tractor battery); & also downsizing your LP tanks &/or changing them to aluminum if they're now steel (our PO "upgraded" to 2x 30# LPs in 2007 & I did the 1st refill this last Spring `15 when I dismounted them to paint silver & they were still 1/3 full!); & other stuff removed from the front & placed elsewhere. (I'll eventually downsize to 20# aluminum LP tanks whenever ours need replacing.)

I weighed our Avion as is - also with a 15"x18"x3/32" steel mount plate for the Tekonsha RF in the pic below + the PO changed the OE 20 gal aluminum fresh water tank & air pump to a 23+/- gal poly unit with smaller lighter water pump at the front bulkhead - & it was at about 540-545# ~ up from the factory 1960 number of 275# (probably without any LP tanks or the smallest single 10# one).

You can also change your weight & balance in the AS by the way you pack &/or add wt. to the rear with a cargo rack off the back. That will lever the HW off a bit, & Terry Powell at Hensley assured me it's not an issue to need 10-15% of GTVW as HW with Hensley (nor PP) hitches due to their design, heads & stinger, etc.

Our Avion was "upgraded" in the PO's `07 resto with a 4" sq. steel bumper for the sewer lines (originally it was a "base model" shaped flat steel bumper), & I'm adding a Curt 4" receiver that bolts onto them for this purpose (& for bike racks), with a modified Curt folding aluminum 24"x60" cargo rack with adaptions to carry the TT spare underslung (facing our when folded up - & I may adjust it to carry that + Cayenne spare too), & some brackets to carry our beach cruiser bikes on top, & an empty rolling grey water tank (until I add one when we re-rivet the belly pans) &/or a Honda generator (if we ever get one??), along with additional aluminum tube & angle bracing to steady it ~ plus a few vintage lights for clearance & safety with a nostalgic touch! It's a work in progress... so stay tuned!

So check you HW to see if you are over the 770#, & if so to see if losing 40-50# with a Cub &/or other tweaks above gets you under!

Cheers!
Tom
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Old 08-23-2015, 07:57 PM   #179
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Doh!! I forgot the pic ....

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Old 09-09-2015, 12:49 PM   #180
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My game plan

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A quick update on our "issue". Hitch reinforcement is being installed by a local shop in Redwood City. Will report the results. Thank you Andy! We had a good talk last Monday morning. Canam has shipped a modified Easylift. Spare tire is gone. Li-ion batteries from amsolar (200Ah) are en route and will be installed next weekend (likely under the dinette compartment - thanks ohiobrits!). Goal is to be ready for the real maiden voyage over July 4: NV, UT, AZ; 2 weeks, 2500 miles. It will be interesting to see the difference in towing behavior, MPG (We did the same trip before with the 20ft FC), oil temp, and generally. The plan is to take it slow over the Sierras - Carson City, Area 51 to Kodachrome Basin which will be our base camp. The trailer is going to be about 2000 lbs heavier than our previous FC - but I think that I will still be at 20MPG by taking it easy (cruise at 62 miles). With the FC, I was, well, driving the Cayenne like it had nothing attached to it .
Thanks for the road map! I hope to find someone closer to NC than CanAm to do the work you described. My 2014 Diesel Pepper and 25fb serenity will be identical to your setup. Looking forward to the journey !
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Old 09-10-2015, 12:20 AM   #181
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Thanks for the road map! I hope to find someone closer to NC than CanAm to do the work you described. My 2014 Diesel Pepper and 25fb serenity will be identical to your setup. Looking forward to the journey !
Popcycle, this is going to be a great setup. We will be heading out tomorrow for a 4-day trip to Lassen NP. Having now towed almost 20K miles with our setup, I feel carefully optimistic that I know what I am doing. Doubting the setup and being careful at all times is the name of the game. I do not want to put the family at risk and have gone through rounds of careful consideration to ultimately realize that the Pepper is probably one of the best TV out there, no question at all. It is not about racing up Tioga pass to beat a ton truck pulling SOB or a 25FB, no, it is about having fun and enjoying your airstream. The whole discussions that are going on on some other threat feel strange given the fact that we are all not in a race about bigger, better, and most powerful; but ultimately, it is all about common sense.

Would be great to meet you some day - half way... for a beer, wine, or spirit... or just a good BBQ...
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Old 09-10-2015, 12:28 AM   #182
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What is it that you don't like about the Equalizer? My dealer is talking me into installing it on my Touareg and a 23 ft Airstream. He said Reese with cams is too heavy and ProPride would be overkill?
Andy from CanAm did not recommend it (the equalizer) and I must say that it was pretty "stiff" when towing out 20ft FC. This means that there is little room for any play when you hit a bump, or drive through a ditch. The Eazylift is much more forgiving in that sense. It is also a more responsive setup when it comes to maneuvering, so the whole thing does not feel like the TGV train (or ICE if you know what I mean). The ProPride is going to be sweet - you consciously will go over the tongue weight rating, attracting s%it from the tank crowd, but it probably is going to be an even better setup. Realistically, any airstream when pulled over and weighted for true tongue weight will probably weigh in at easily >1000lbs, even some bambis. So if you are conscious about this and try to keep the weight down using some of the discussed tricks, you probably will be all right.
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