Porsche Cayenne, VW Touareg, Audi Q7 owners

[Knuff]

We just returned from yet another 3,000 miles trip from CA through NV, AZ, and back and I can report that we had no issues and lots of fun. We noticed MANY SUV-Airstream combinations including T-regs, Jeeps, Nissan Amadas, Toyotas, ... you name it. It seems that more and more people realize that one does not need a tank to pull an airstream.

After now having put almost 25K on our Cayenne in the last 2 years, with about 23K towing and perhaps another 1K off roading, I can tell that beside the annoying oil service every 5K (and the Blue tank flush every 10K), we had no service related stops at the dealer.

Question for the current owners of Cayennes, T-regs, Audis or other similar SUVs:
How many miles have you towed with your current SUV or how much do you tow per year?
Do you think that using the SUV mainly (or in our case almost exclusively) for towing has adverse affects? I know that wear and tear might be enhanced, but for my part, I am not going crazy when crossing the Sierras or mountain passes in Utah or Colorado, but still we have gone almost on every trip over 7,000+ mountain passes. Frankly, I never felt that I am underpowered, even after swapping the 20ft for a 25FB.

So, how much do y'all tow per year, season?

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by dkottum

They can't sell the new or certified with the TDI right now and I don't know what VW will do to make them legal. Anyone towed with the Touareg gas V6, how is it?

I've read in the automotive press that the 3.0L V6 TDIs from VW/P/A are only needing a software adjustment for the cold running program to meet smog control tests, since they already have the additive & other smog control equipment which the 2.0L TDIs lacked - in additiotn to their "smog test cheater program".

Maybe Knuff & some of you other 3.0L TDI owners can tell us what VW, Porsche or Audi is telling you.

I'm wondering how the current CA owners of them will even get their TDI cars' registration renewed if this is your time for the every other year smog test?

IIRC the 2016> Cayenne TDIs are or will be a Porsche designed 3.2L or 3.6L TDI - so out of that VW debacle loop.

Knuff - the Porsche Certified Techs whith whom I've spoken have all said that a constant diet of towing will work them harder & stuff will wear out faster - more so the more & heavier you're towing - e.g.: our relatively light 1960 Avion T20 vs a heavier modern 25, 27, 30' AS.

How much so will vary, & also depend upon driving habits & road conditions, etc.

However, this is not just a small TV issue, but rather something across the board - even for the "big ole pick-em-up truck & SUV" crowd.

It's not dissimilar to long trip freeway miles being kinder & gentler on your cars/trucks, than is bumper-to-bumper & short trip city traffic - or racing being the worst. It's a basic wear, stress & strain issue.

Cheers!
Tom
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[Popcycle]

In the proverbial case of putting the cart before the horse, I bought the TV before the AS. And now, as it frequently does, circumstances have changed and the AS will not be in our future. So, I'm offering my '14 Diesel Cayenne, Platinum edition with 20K miles to anyone looking at upgrading their TV. Just send me an email to popcycle at mac dot com.

[Knuff]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

I've read in the automotive press that the 3.0L V6 TDIs from VW/P/A are only needing a software adjustment for the cold running program to meet smog control tests, since they already have the additive & other smog control equipment which the 2.0L TDIs lacked - in additiotn to their "smog test cheater program".

Maybe Knuff & some of you other 3.0L TDI owners can tell us what VW, Porsche or Audi is telling you.

I'm wondering how the current CA owners of them will even get their TDI cars' registration renewed if this is your time for the every other year smog test?

IIRC the 2016> Cayenne TDIs are or will be a Porsche designed 3.2L or 3.6L TDI - so out of that VW debacle loop.
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Tom, beside sending apologetic letters and extending the warranty to 100K miles, not a lot has come from Porsche yet. Although the warranty extension is very nice talking about wear and tear. I am hoping that Porsche will continue offering a Diesel engine. In Europe, in addition to the VW 3L engine they offer a sweet beast with a larger engine and >800lbs of torque, but with the current developments I doubt that this one will make to the US in foreseeable time.

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by Popcycle

In the proverbial case of putting the cart before the horse, I bought the TV before the AS. And now, as it frequently does, circumstances have changed and the AS will not be in our future. So, I'm offering my '14 Diesel Cayenne, Platinum edition with 20K miles to anyone looking at upgrading their TV. Just send me an email to popcycle at mac dot com.

Popcycle -

You might want to try putting it in the RennList Cayenne Forum section & their classifieds - IIRC it's free to both join & list. Ditto for the Pelican Parts website. If you are a Porsche Club of America member, then you can list in their Panorama magazine & online - which is $46/yr for 2 members, includes 12 mos. of Pano - an excellent car magazine, & the local Region's magazine, + a bunch of free & nominal cost events with great people.

However, since Knuff is saying you now have a 100,000 mi warranty & their fix will be out soon since it's a simple & technically not a "smog test cheating" program, since it has all the fluid & hardware on it .... if this Cayenne fits your personal/family needs for a DD, & fuel mileage & maintenance is okay with your budget .... then you might want to hang on to it as being covered to 10 years (??) & 100,000 - only matched by the likes of lesser Hyundai, Kia & maybe a couple of others. Then if any type of boat, travel, tent or other trailer comes into possibility, then you've also got a TV as your DD.

I don't know your situation, but it may be worth a reconsideration thought & chat with all involved (wife/SO, family, etc.).

You might also want to consider a vintage AS or kin which has been restored by someone else & enjoyed for a few years & are now moving on to something else, which will give you the benefits at a fraction of the new AS price - & vintage values are rising, whereas used-new are depreciating to less.

Plus there were a bunch of AS vintage kin like Avion, Silverstreak & many others which were built as well or better than their AS contemporaries, but don't have the "vintage AS effect" price bubble.

Also the 20' & up ones are less $$s than the shorter AS's & some kin, cuz everyone starting in the vintage trailer hobby seem to want to get "a cute little trailer" & run their prices way up - especially AS Bambi/Bubble/etc. in the 12-17' range. A 19-28' restored/refurb'ed vintage kin in good usable/operable condition is possible in the $10-20,000+/- range with some looking (maybe some vintage ASs too). Look in classifieds here, Tin Can Tourists, Craig's Lost (intentional misspell ;-), evil-bay, brand specific forums, Vintge Trailer Camper magazine/website, etc.; & at vintage trailer events.

On that latter, there is also a vibrant, fun & growing vintage trailer rally scene with events almost every weekend (warm weather ones in cold/snow country), which are tons of fun weekend getaways for both families & singles/couples interested in the hobby. So IMHO the vintage scene is more fun due to the wider array of trailers from the history of this hobby/lifestyle which are like an AS Travelcade every weekend - giving folks more opportunities to fit something into their busy schedules.

Good Luck either way!
Tom
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[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by Knuff

Tom, beside sending apologetic letters and extending the warranty to 100K miles, not a lot has come from Porsche yet. Although the warranty extension is very nice talking about wear and tear. I am hoping that Porsche will continue offering a Diesel engine. In Europe, in addition to the VW 3L engine they offer a sweet beast with a larger engine and >800lbs of torque, but with the current developments I doubt that this one will make to the US in foreseeable time.

Knuff -

Is that 100,000 mile extension also extended to 10 years?

... & is it engine only, drivetrain only, or the full vehicle warranty?

Pretty good deal - IF they fix the smog issue - for the aggravation.

I guess time will tell whether & how VW/Porsche/Audi resolves things with CAl-DMV ~ CARB, EPA & the other states' DMVs/ARBs.

I did see their V8 TDI Cayenne Euro/RoW article in Panorama or Excellence or one of the too many other car magazines I get - & on a auto TV show - & it' a great motor/SUV, but I fear that the USA has had their appetite for all diesels due to this VW debacle, & apparently the Europeans are backing away from them now too - blaming worsening urban smog on their proliferation there.

That mid-2000's Audi based 5.0L V10 TDI was also a beast too, with over 1000 Ft/Lb of TQ!

There's an Euww-Tube of it out-pulling a Dodge 25500 or 3500 Dually Diesel out there too, which someone should post a link to it on here (I lost mine when my old laptop died in Oct.).

There are a couple of Treg V10 owners on here.

Cheers!
Tom
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[Popcycle]

Thanks so much Tom. I'm reconsidering as I write this. I do appreciate your time in responding. All your points were right on.

[bono]

100k miles extension is good... I needed to pay $5k+ for extended warranty 100k / 7 yrs on BMW X5.

I am wondering what VW owners are getting... I read sometime ago about some gift cards worth a couple hundred dollars...

[Andrew T]

Wear & Tear Issue:

Our vehicles spend a much larger percentage of their life towing than most tow vehicles do. Our 94 Intrepid was still running great with 130,000 miles on it of which about 60,000 miles were towing. Our 2010 Jetta has 70,000 miles on it close to 35,000 towing and we tow much larger trailers with it than we would ever send a customer out with. So far zero issues.

I don't have any customers with a really high mileage Treg or Porsche. We do have a customer with over 100,000 miles on a Mercedes GL Diesel towing a 30 Classic a significant amount. Obviously there must be some additional wear but I don't think it is significant. My impression is that city driving with short trips is the hardest thing on most vehicles.

VW has sent us a $1,000 credit at the VW dealer for the 2010 Jetta. No word on what they are going to do to it to fix it. It will be interesting to see what the economy/performance difference is when they do.

Andrew T

[ModernVista]

Thanks guys!

I'm going to stay with the Cayenne for now, after some positive discussions with folks who pull larger with similar setups and with Andy at Canam. Even my dealer was positive about it.

I am going to get a new hitch ball for my rig from Canam that will keep things a bit closer and will likely do some other recommended mods. First we pick the trailer and then I'll update here.

Off to Airstream LA tomorrow!

Chris

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by ModernVista

Thanks guys!

I'm going to stay with the Cayenne for now, after some positive discussions with folks who pull larger with similar setups and with Andy at Canam. Even my dealer was positive about it.

I am going to get a new hitch ball for my rig from Canam that will keep things a bit closer and will likely do some other recommended mods. First we pick the trailer and then I'll update here.

Off to Airstream LA tomorrow!

Chris

Chris,

FYI - I'm pretty sure that LA AS is the same owners as the one down here in OC & anether in SoCal (IE maybe), just in case you ever need a dealer further from the LA spot.

I know a few folks in the Porsche Club (PCA) here who are towing heavier & less aerodynamic enclosed car haulers with a Porsche & parts/wheels/tires/gear inside to both races/autocross & concours with their CayS's - so I think you'll be fine.

Cheers!
Tom
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[cactusjk]

So when do you think Treg TDIs will be released in CA?

[Texas Gal 61]

We had a 2010 TDI. Pulled our 85 sovereign with it the past two years. This fall the NM air rally and trip into northern NM we lost the drive shaft. We had been having some strange computer and electrical issues as well. That was when my husband made me get rid of my Toureg. I lived it as a tow vehicle and daily driver. We could forget the AS was even back there. Now I drive a Tundra. Still can't park it in one try unless there's no cars next to me. It rides nice but it's huge.

[Tom_T]

What are the collective's thoughts on towing with a Euro SUV with Low Profile tires & upsized wheels - is it safe, too much stress on tiny sidewalls, etc.?

We looked at a nice 08 Cayenne S last weekend with upsized aftermarket 22" x 9.5" alloy mulit-piece wheels with 285/35R22 tires (max. Porsche wheel for Cayenne is 21"), but I'm concerned about how well those low profile UHP tires will stand up to the stresses of towing - aside from them riding harsher, wearing out much faster & the fact that the aftermarket wheels (which make I cannot i.d.) may not be up to Porsche spec nor the towing task.

All I can say is - IMHO- it's pretty lame what some guys will do for an extra inch! ;-)

Your sage input would be appreciated.

Cheers!
Tom
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[mojo]

Sounds like you answered your own question. My first Touareg came with 19" wheels which I made the dealer swap out for 18's because of the limited selection of tires, the cost of tires and the fact that they were soft performance tires that like to attract nails and screws like magnets.

If you tow only on nice highways and avoid potholes, they may hold up. But I prefer something more substantial than rubber bands for tires.

[bono]

I switched from 18" to 20" and like the result very much. The ride is not as bouncy as before and this is the most important thing for me. I got tire insurance from America tires.

I believe that this could be also advantage when towing, as the setup will be more stable.

Personally I would not use aftermarket wheels, even without towing. But this is me...

[Tom_T]

FYI All -

My question above is in general as I look for "THE Perfect" Cayenne S for us. So I suppose my question would likewise apply to the Porsche 21" & 20" factory wheels with "rubber bands" on them too.


Mojo -

I'd be happiest with a CayS on 18" or 19" for the same reasons as you, but could live with 20" at a 45-ish profile. Cost & selection are issues.

We will mostly be on paved roads when towing our vintage Avion, as opposed to the heavy duty off-oad camping that you do! ;-)

Did you ever sell your Treg V10?

FYI - we decided to move on to post Series 1 CayS's after spending 14 months searching for the perfect 2006 Titanium Ed. on in Iceland Silver proved to be a beach to get proof the coolant pipes update was done & other issues. As of 2016 we're looking for 2008>.


Bono -

I probably don't have enough experience riding/driving in a CayS (or similar) yet to see the bounciness issue between 19 & 20" - although you make a good point, so I think that I should try test driving some to feel the difference myself.

I can always change wheels/tires to what I really want later, or if a certain size gets too hard to find.

Like you, I'm really uncomfortable with anything aftermarket on Porsches, since they usually cause other problems, & don't like the 22's on it anyway, plus both rear tires had sidewall splits, so I won't touch that without them replaced & didn't even test drive it!


This one last weekend also had its OE Porsche Nav-PCM2.1/Bose Audio unit changed out for a new aftermarket one, resulting in its rare factory back-up camera opening/closing every time a door opened or the key was turned on - rather than just when put into reverse - so I have the "Willies" about electrical gremlins & a hacked up electrical harness.

Otherwise, I thought it was the perfect one: in our #1 Marine Blue paint with #2 Havana/Sand Beige interior, Nav, Rear Cam, just 45,000+/- miles with 2nd owner, on CPO up to a year ago & well maintained, very good to great cosmetic condition ... & just 6 miles from home! But it can't even be PPI'ed with those bad rear tires on it!!

The hunt goes on!

.... but more ultra low profile tire while towing input is still appreciated!

Cheers!
Tom
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[Tom_T]

PS - Bono -

I can see 20" Porsche wheels since they're 45, 50 or 55 profile (don't recall which), but these 22" are 35 profile & maybe 1.5 - 2" tall sidewalls. Not much cush to the cushion with those thin rubber bands!

And that 22"-285/35R22 combo may also have the Speedo & Odo off a bit, as well as suspension geometry!

In any case of actual wheel size we end up with, I'll get a 5th wheel/tire in a matching size to carry along as a full sized spare, as others have recco'd on here to do.


Tom
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[ModernVista]

I have 19s on my 2012 S and would get them again. I ran into someone towing with a cayenne GTS and she wasn't happy with the ride. She had 22s iirc, but it may also have been the tuning of the GTS. Otoh, she had Air ride (PASM?) and I have steel springs.

Whatever the case, I've been so happy with mine if I got another one I would stick with steel springs and the 19s!

Chris

[Knuff]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

Knuff -

Is that 100,000 mile extension also extended to 10 years?

... & is it engine only, drivetrain only, or the full vehicle warranty?


Cheers!
Tom
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It is 6 years / 100,000 miles.

Covers:
Engine
Fuel / Cooling system
Power train / Transmission
Suspension / Steering
Brake system
Heating / Air condition
Electrical Systems
Body
Comfort Electronics

Not shabby, particularly with keeping in mind how expensive a warranty extension with P actually is...