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Old 06-29-2015, 01:48 AM   #127
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Ohiobrits,

I just know a lot about a few cars - one I own & have for 40 years, & the other I'm looking for as a TV .... and the competitive options for it!

I know what that guy was saying, cuz I only got 7-10 mpg on the gasser V8 3/4T pickups that we've been renting, & the one diesel V8 was only 13-15-ish on mostly flat & gentle grades in SoCal to Central Coast ... & that was no different without the trailer!

Hauling with a big truck vs. a mid-size with a V8 or diesel should really be compared in TV lbs. per HP & TQ - where the 6000-8000# truck will generally lose!

For example, an `06 Cay-S 4.5L V8 is roughly 5000#/340 HP = 14.71#/HP
... but `06 Ford F150 Supercrew 5.4L V8 XLT is 5,406#/300 HP = 18.02#/HP ... hmmm ... 14.7 vs 18 - before hitching the trailer!

& the F150 above is only rated to tow 6500#, GVWR 6,900# & 1,494# max. payload ~ vs. ~
Cay-S is rated to tow 7716#, with a GVWR 6790# & 1840# max payload (less with options in both cases)

& it's roughly the same $20,000+/- price when similarly equipped, as the Cay-S TI with 60,000 mi according to NADA!!

So where is this great big truck benefit!!??

And why do folks assume that a +/- 5000# C/T/Q TV cannot not handle a +/- 6000-7700# TT without being swung around - but a +/- 5000-7000# truck is just fine with a 10,000-20,000 humongous trailer, where the weight differential is the same or higher!!??

Yes - I'm talking trucks here, but only in defense of our C/T/Q's!!

Ohiobrits, your rig has a surprising similarity to Andy's test rig on the link - even down to the White Cay-D! - go to "Hitch Hints" on pg. 6....

RV Lifestyle - Vol. 41 No. 7

BTW to ALL wondering what a C/T/Q trio can tow - the above "Hitch Hints" article was a test evaluation of a 2013? Cayenne Diesel & an AS 30' (not sure of model) by Andy Thompson of CanAm RV in Ontario CAN.

NC is beautiful, although I'm partial to the mountainous parts, since my Mom's side of our family's Cherokee ancestors goes back millennia in the Appalachians! ;-)

Our daughter, hubby & grandson are in the process of moving from Asheville to Charlottesville VA for his new job, after 4 years there.

I look forward to hearing to hearing about your trip & the Cay-D feedback!

So take the wife over to the dealership to test drive the Macan S, Turbo S & Diesel (latter due after Jan. 2016 I think), but then you may still be driving the Cayenne!!

Cheers!
Tom
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Old 06-29-2015, 05:44 PM   #128
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Wow, lots of information that was posted in the past days. Tom, I am looking forward to catching up with what you and others have posted.

Here is my initial first hand report from towing our 25ft FB CCD with our Pepe after new Easylift hitch arrived with mods from CanAm and hitch reinforcement.

Picked up Zeppel2 in Benicia where it also got new shoes (16er wheels and French rubber); also no more wet batteries, we are using 200Ah Li-ion and 200W solar. Btw, stock inverter (1000W) powers a Nespresso Pixie without issues 👍🏼😀

Friday, set up all level (well, inch drop in back of tt), we drove about 100miles NE to Ranco Seca Regional Park (camping near an abandoned nuclear power plant &#128526. Towed like a charm! It is definitely there, but no issues accelerating, hardly any sway. We were mostly cruising backroads, only 20 miles highway. 22mpg, I was amazed!

Next day, across the Sierra, up to Lake Tahoe on 50East. Pepe was doing great. Used mostly 5th and 6th gear, no AC as we approached the top. Air temp was 100, cooling temp at 200, did not buckle. Oil temp mainly around 230-245, rarely over 250. Max at 262 after 15 min straight up without any level stretch of road. I maintained 50-60 mph throughout, did not use cruise control. This was higher oil temp than when towing our 20ft zeppel1, where 254 ir so was the all time high up on Tioga Pass.
We camped at a state park near Carson City. 16 mpg for this 140miles stretch.

Next day, long haul. Made some hitch adjustment, trailer now perfectly straight. TV nicely balanced. About 450 miles from Carson City to a state park near Caliente, NV: Kershaw ... State park. Desert roads, little traffic, rolling hills, up and down and up an down, between 4000 and 6500 ft, all at 100 degrees. No issues at all, beautiful drive, we stopped at the Black mailbox, but it seems the mailbox was abducted ??! 👽
18mgp for this leg of the trip.

Today, 2h drive to Snow Canyon SP where we plugged in at 108 degrees. AC is trying hard to bring down the temp, looks futile at the moment. 19 mpg for today, also hilly terrain. The new hitch is now worn in, much easier to lift the chain into the hook. I will look a little at this tomorrow, perhaps another chain adjustment. Pepe is doing great. I must say that I am now used to the new setup, know more about how the car and tt feel and react. I am glad that we chose backroads to get here and not the easy route via Bakersfield and Vegas.

No regrets at all and forgotten are the panic days when we thought that we would need a truck.

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Old 06-30-2015, 01:23 AM   #129
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Mirror Extenders VW Touareg

We are very happy with our 2014 Touareg hauling our 2015 Flying Cloud 23FB. But the mirror situation is terrible. The most recommended, locally, are mirrors on rubber straps that are supposed to grip the vehicle's mirror. But because of the curves, they slide over time (not long) and they are very hard to adjust. It can take 10 minutes at the start of each journey, and then they shift anyway.

What suggestions do VW Touareg owners have for extender mirrors, please?

Penny
Vancouver, BC
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Old 06-30-2015, 11:42 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyinNitwits View Post
We are very happy with our 2014 Touareg hauling our 2015 Flying Cloud 23FB. But the mirror situation is terrible. The most recommended, locally, are mirrors on rubber straps that are supposed to grip the vehicle's mirror. But because of the curves, they slide over time (not long) and they are very hard to adjust. It can take 10 minutes at the start of each journey, and then they shift anyway.

What suggestions do VW Touareg owners have for extender mirrors, please?

Penny
Vancouver, BC
Penny,

Those strap on mirrors are junk & also wobble incessantly, so not worth the trouble! Get a refund!

We have the Hensley McKesh door mounted mirrors which go wider, give a better rearward view, have pads to protect the paint & work perfectly without vibration. We've used them on various trucks & SUVs we've rented as TV while we look for our own Cayenne.

McKesh Mirrors - Hensley Mfg., Inc.

Pic below shows them on an `06 Cayenne S (not ours) ....

Cheers!
Tom
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Old 06-30-2015, 12:12 PM   #131
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Exclamation Cautions about Euro Plastics on Euro TVs

I've had several conversations with my longtime (40 yrs.) Austrian mechanic Hans, who has said several times that - due to higher European restrictions on "Green" car parts - all of the European mfgrs. are using plastics with shorter lives & are designed to decompose more quickly (ostensibly in the dumps).

This results in plastic parts failing sooner than ever before, especially in the high heat cycles of car engines, drivetrains & interiors (yes, that greenhouse hot box too!).

This sounds too much like planned obsolescence to me, & it just cannot be better, than to just make the parts more durable in the first place - so that they won't fail in their intended use & end up in a dump, needing to decompose.

IMHO recycling of durable plastics is a better path to greenness!

Apparently the composition of these Euro plastics is also extremely attractive to rodents eating it!

Hans had to have 2-3 year old BMW X5 totaled by the owner's insurance company, which was in for service where rodents ate the wiring harness while parked outside & the cost to rewire exceeded what insurance would cover without totaling it!!

So this affects even new every few years Euro TV owners!

Again - this is NOT "Green" nor environmentally sensitive, nor "sustainable" - considering all of the energy & resources lost in junking a new or used car due to supposedly green parts failures & consumption by rats & mice!!!!

This may also be the case with newer domestic & Asian brands too, but I'm not sure.

There is also already a huge concern in the classic auto collecting community that the modern electronic components will become non-functional & irreplaceable after the manufacturers no longer have to support those cars' parts (10-15 years in most countries) & the remaining stocks run out. How will we replace or repair old tech computers in these 1990s-2000s cars!?

Now this may not matter to those of you who buy or lease new every 2-5 years, but it is a major longevity & durability concern for those of us who buy used &/or those who keep their cars for a long time.

I keep my cars & keep them up, with my newest being our 1988 VW Westy & our 1985 BMW 325e, plus we're now looking for a used `06-10 Cayenne S which I'll probably keep for many years - so I fit both types above.

Given the above, maybe my maintaining my limited number of cars is actually more "green & sustainable" than the governmental mandated green programs!!??

No "Cheers" here!
Tom
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Old 06-30-2015, 12:36 PM   #132
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Knuff - great info!

Check out the link to the CanAm Hitch Hints article with the Cay-D & 30' AS! .... real similar to yours!

Slowing to 55 would reduce both temps & fuel burn in the heat, plus in CA it's 55 max towing & the Chipos love to stop the Porsches & big fancy trucks! More income for the state, cities & counties! Same in other states with 55 mph max tow speed, but I do miss that target myself.

If you compared the same year as your Cay-D of a comparably equipped top end F150 Diesel with their tow, truck bed shell (Cay has enclosed storage too) & all the stereo, leather & other options comparable to the Cayenne, I think you'd find the price is close - if not the same or more!

I think the lighter V-6 TDI would also win in the Lbs/HP & Lbs/TQ comparison, as in my `06 F150 vs. Cay-S V8 gasser comparison.

In 90+ heat with a minimally insulated "aluminum tube" - you're going to need to run that AC a looong time to get the AS cool! Most of us avoid the desert in summer ... well at least us when we can!

If you can run the AS's AC off the solar/inverter set-up + TV 12V while on the go, then that will help keep it cooler once you get to the campsites.

Also, your lifting chains & 1/2-links story is partly why I prefer & love our Hensley Cub with the tensioning jacks, among many other benefits!

Cheers!
Tom
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Old 06-30-2015, 07:20 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyinNitwits View Post
We are very happy with our 2014 Touareg hauling our 2015 Flying Cloud 23FB. But the mirror situation is terrible. The most recommended, locally, are mirrors on rubber straps that are supposed to grip the vehicle's mirror. But because of the curves, they slide over time (not long) and they are very hard to adjust. It can take 10 minutes at the start of each journey, and then they shift anyway.

What suggestions do VW Touareg owners have for extender mirrors, please?

Penny
Vancouver, BC
Right now I'm just towing the Bambi with the Touareg. When I pull the Flying Cloud, I'm getting a pair of these.
Aero 2 Towing Mirrors 2899
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Old 06-30-2015, 09:40 PM   #134
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Ended up fleeing the 105 heat in St George and drove up to Bryce. 75 and calm. Heat was just not enjoyable in Snow Canyon. Drive was uneventful- first time for longer on the Freeway. I-15 at 70, towed like a charm. No sway at all, even with loads of trucks passing. Seems they read max speed 80 and think they can go as mucho as they can. But i passed them on the steep incline up to Cedar City 😁

19 Mpg for the daily stint. Not bad at all. Now we will stay for about a week in the area before heading back. Hope to see some airstreams in Kodachrome Basin SP, our final destination.
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Old 06-30-2015, 09:50 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by Antique Pedaler View Post
Right now I'm just towing the Bambi with the Touareg. When I pull the Flying Cloud, I'm getting a pair of these.
Aero 2 Towing Mirrors 2899
That looks like what I'm using also, works well. A bit of shake at speed but still very good. You can see all the way down the side of the AS on the drivers side when installed. Nice.

I also installed a wireless rear view camera on the back of the AS which is OK but the mirrors give you most of what you need. The rear view camera is very useful when reversing though - not to see where I'm going per se (use mirrors for that) but to see my wife who is out back giving me hand signals (left, right, the other left, stop, no I really mean STOP etc ). I mounted the screen to the rear view mirror in the TV (temporarily) when towing since the mirror is useless once hitched. Works well, glance at the mirror and see what is behind the AS not what is behind the TV - like magic!
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Old 06-30-2015, 09:52 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuff View Post
Ended up fleeing the 105 heat in St George and drove up to Bryce. 75 and calm. Heat was just not enjoyable in Snow Canyon. Drive was uneventful- first time for longer on the Freeway. I-15 at 70, towed like a charm. No sway at all, even with loads of trucks passing. Seems they read max speed 80 and think they can go as mucho as they can. But i passed them on the steep incline up to Cedar City 😁

19 Mpg for the daily stint. Not bad at all. Now we will stay for about a week in the area before heading back. Hope to see some airstreams in Kodachrome Basin SP, our final destination.
Knuff - great to hear all is going to plan.....
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Old 06-30-2015, 10:04 PM   #137
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Ohiobrits,

Ohiobrits, your rig has a surprising similarity to Andy's test rig on the link - even down to the White Cay-D! - go to "Hitch Hints" on pg. 6....

RV Lifestyle - Vol. 41 No. 7

BTW to ALL wondering what a C/T/Q trio can tow - the above "Hitch Hints" article was a test evaluation of a 2013? Cayenne Diesel & an AS 30' (not sure of model) by Andy Thompson of CanAm RV in Ontario CAN.
Tom, yes I saw the hitch hints a while back. Here are a few photos Phil Tipler at Can-Am sent me when I was asking if a Cayenne Diesel would tow a 23 - Well obviously it can.....

Knuff - I bet the first photo looks just like your modified Eaz-Lift? Nice clean installation. My ProPride by comparison looks much more "busy".
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Old 06-30-2015, 11:24 PM   #138
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Towing Impressions, brake setup, diesel pumps

Here are a few notes from my recent 1400 mile round trip to South Carolina.

Setup - TT fully loaded, full water, about 7000lbs (guess, not weighed), grey and black tanks drained prior to towing.
TV - Cayenne Diesel, me and 2 passengers
Approx 13,000 lbs CW

The route takes us over the Appalachians, nothing to write home about for you folks out west but over here in the east these hills are pretty big (roads crest at about 3200ft). There are several 5% climbs and 5% downhill sections in repeating waves. Not especially long, maybe 5 miles max each.

Typical towing speed on the interstates is between 50 and 75 depending on speed limit and traffic. On the flat I typically tow at 70, if the road is clear and I'm in the mood I'll tow at 75. On hills I will typically go up and down at 65.

Based on Knuff's input about using Sport mode, I gave this a go and like this better that regular auto for the hills for sure. The engine seems to lug less, downshifts sooner and will hold gear downhill once shifted manually. Interesting fact if you are concerned about a "runaway" when going downhill, the Cayenne will hold this 13,000b rig at 65mph on a 5% downhill section when shifted into 5th. No need for brakes (who needs big truck engine braking?).

I think regular auto is probably a bit less annoying on the flat (takes lower gear, less up and down shifts for small grade changes).

I usually use cruise for all interstate sections including inclines. In Sport it does fine in cruise even on the uphill sections. In regular auto I'd find myself downshifting some manually.

The ambients were very hot, 100F in NC prior to getting to the coast and high to mid 80's on the hills. Oil temp on the long climbs reached a max of 262F (Sport, 5th, cruise) at 65mph. If the grade had been longer I probably would have dropped to 60mph as I don't want to see much higher than that. Towing on the flat at 75mph gives an oil temp in the 220s to mid 230s. Stop go traffic in 100+ temps saw oil temps staying low between 210 and 220. This surprised me but the Porsche seems to do a very good job of keeping things cool.

Brake Controller - I posted earlier that I had my max voltage (Tekonsha P3) set at about 6V and Boost 2. I was seeing a lot of front wheel brake dust so did some more testing. I had the wife observe me doing hard stops in a Walmart parking lot and we determined that the TV wheels lock at 9V so we backed it down to 8.8V. This seemed to work well, very little front wheel brake dust i.e. TT brakes are doing the work they should be to stop the TT. Boost 2 is still the setting I like at highway speeds but it is very "grabby" at low speeds now I have max voltage set to 8.8V so I just toggle Boost off when in town (Boost applies a % of max volts as soon as the TV brake peddle is depressed so this is nice at speed to ensure the TT is leading the TV but feels like the TT brakes are being slammed on at low speed).

Overall - still deeply impressed with the Cayenne Diesel as a TV. Immensely capable. I still can't believe just how good it is to be honest. Can-Am told me the Cayenne was a better TV than any vehicle made in the US currently (meaning trucks, I know some of the Euro SUV's are US made). I have no reference point with trucks as a TV but I doubt another set up using a more traditional truck TV would be any better.

One more thing, a bit of an annoyance. You have to be a bit picky about which diesel pumps you fill up at. The Cayenne has an error proofed diesel fill connection. This means that ONLY the newer diesel nozzles will slide in and open the snap closed gate. These newer diesel nozzles are slightly larger diameter that the unleaded nozzles. I found several pumps that still have the old smaller diameter (unleaded) nozzle fitted on the diesel pumps. These will not allow you to insert the nozzle - stops you putting unleaded in but also diesel!. I actually had one guy at a BP garage change the "old", small diameter diesel nozzle for a new larger diameter diesel nozzle whilst I waited. Apparently BP requires that diesel nozzles have back boots, unleaded green (this appears to be different to most other car service garages which are green diesel, back unleaded, truck stops are all black for diesel). His correct diesel nozzle was of course booted in green which was against BP policy but he was losing business so he changed it over. The other point is that the truck stop diesel pump nozzles are often too BIG diameter to fit in. Your best bet therefore is to head for a regular looking pump not a truck stop type pump. If you must use a truck stop type diesel pump, they will sometimes have 1 nozzle with the big "truck" size and one the smaller "car" sized nozzle so try both - you may get lucky - I have twice

Moral of this story - start looking for diesel when you get to about half empty if you will need a fill prior to reaching your destination. Stops you sweating if you can't fill up at the next few gas stations. You can also be more picky about filling up where there is plenty of room to swing up to the pump and get out again without any drama. Most of us are camping because it is fun and relaxing so why get more stressed about it than needed

We are camping again this weekend....only been home a few days and I'm ready to hit the road again Restocked the AS fridge tonight with the essentials, you know, beer.....two more days of work then a long weekend....
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Old 07-01-2015, 12:33 AM   #139
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Great info guys!

Now if we can also get some C/T/Q V8 Gassers to chime in as well!

I've done the Cedar Breaks UT grade & NC Smokies/Appalacians in our `88 Westy many times since `88-now with 4 of us & our stuff - you both would've passed us, even with trailers!


Gas vs Diesel Cayennes -

While I'll give up maybe 4-5 mpg from those diesel numbers with a Cayenne S V8 - I'll also be towing about half the weight (3-3500 wet & loaded), & will avoid all that nasty nozzle surprise BS - as well as the additive regimen.

Up until recently, the diesel around here was 20-30 cents more than Premium gas, so the fuel cost can be the same if/when diesel passes gas prices again.

At the 13-15 mpg my buddy got with his `04 Cay-S & 22' SOB "Hi-Axle Box" running 65-75 at $3.60-3.80-ish Premium vs. 17-19 mpg on Diesel at the then $3.90-4.20-ish (2014 - early 2014 in SoCal) + cost of additive & 2x the engine oil at changes - the diesel operating cost advantage fades quickly!

I think you go diesel for the extra torque to pull a bigger/heavier trailer more easily, rather on cost savings.


Mirrors -

Also - I'd asked another vintage trailer guy early on about those Aero 2 mirrors & a few others - after the strap-on were proven crappy. He had the same vibration problems at speed, so he went to the McKesh & recco'sd them to me. So that's how I got to them & no vibration, plus they extend out further than the Aero 2 & others that connect to the car's mirrors. However, they are more expensive too, but they do get sold used cheaper on "evil-bay" & "Craig's Lost" sometimes.


CanAm Hitch Setup with Ball Backslope -

http://www.airforums.com/forums/atta...4&d=1435719699

I see in this pic link above that Knuff posted above, when blown up full size, that ball back slope or angle which Andy T talks about in his Hitch Hints articles (again in the most recent one not online yet too).

I suppose that with a PP & Hensley it's a moot point, since the ball is enclosed in the articulating head anyway - at the angle required by those units??

Have fun on the road folks!

Cheers!
Tom
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Old 07-01-2015, 08:03 AM   #140
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We couldn't get mirrors for our truck when new. I like the Aero mirrors...saw them on a Cayene at Can Am but with the experiences noted above I'm staying with my McKesh; lots of mirror and easy to extend in tricky back-in campsites. It is also a lot easier to remove just the mirror when trucking around town without upsetting the adjustments.
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