Porsche Cayenne, VW Touareg, Audi Q7 owners

[bono]

Crazy DEF mileage. I believe that I drive 12-15k miles on 5 gallons of DEF.

Originally Posted by ARF

Thought I would share how our Audi Q5 TDI is performing after the recall work was done on the emissions system. We completed our first extended trip since I had the recall work done, a 5000 mile trip towing our FC 27FB.

Towing - Dropped from 15-16 MPG to 14 MPG. However, biggest change is the amount of Blue Def/Ad Blue we went through. We were only getting about 500 miles per gallon of Blue Def.

Not towing - Dropped from 31 MPG to 29 MPG. We live in Summit County, CO and the MPG drop is more significant after the recall work. Went from 29MPG at high elevation to about 27MPG. In the winter, it is even lower, about 25MPG. Cost of living in paradise at 9500' elevation.

Anyone else experience the huge increase in the amount of Blue Def used when towing?

[HappyHapgood]

We have a 2016 Cayenne Diesel. Bought it after the “fix”. We tow an 8,000ish pound LandYacht. Tows it beautifully, but holy cow does it drink DEF. 300 - 400 miles per gallon sounds about right.

[keweenawbee]

Wow, great thread, first time I've seen it! We purchased a new X3 m-sport a few months before we got the 22fb. It has the factory rear tow setup (just the receiver and dual plug-ins). All we've ever used it for was to tow our pop-up to the junk yard! Seeing this thread, and knowing that the hitch weight of our 22fb is within the BMW's spec, I want to try this next time I move the AS. I haven't read this whole thread please forgive me are there any other X3's who can shout out, and have most of you folks (or any) done rear suspensions mods for this? You can see in this photo that the rear end is slightly lower than normal. Actually looks pretty cool like that!

[jcl]

Originally Posted by keweenawbee

Wow, great thread, first time I've seen it! We purchased a new X3 m-sport a few months before we got the 22fb. It has the factory rear tow setup (just the receiver and dual plug-ins). All we've ever used it for was to tow our pop-up to the junk yard! Seeing this thread, and knowing that the hitch weight of our 22fb is within the BMW's spec, I want to try this next time I move the AS. I haven't read this whole thread please forgive me are there any other X3's who can shout out, and have most of you folks (or any) done rear suspensions mods for this? You can see in this photo that the rear end is slightly lower than normal. Actually looks pretty cool like that!

We have a 2007 X3 3.0si with the 6 speed manual, a previous model to yours most likely. The BMW hitch on it is rated for 3500 lbs, but the vehicle is capable of much more. A previous X5 we owned (same size and weight, but 40 hp less) was sold with a 6000 lb hitch by the manufacturer, and rated above that in other markets (3500 kg). Towing more than the pop up with the X3 requires a hitch receiver change or modification to allow the use of WD equipment. No suspension modifications are required. You will need a brake controller.

Our X3 has a greater load capacity (GVWR less curb weight) than a friend's RAM 1500 Ecodiesel, by several hundred pounds. When I think about it, we had 25 hp more than him as well. He was towing a 27 until he traded the Ecodiesel. Our X3 does very well towing. I haven't towed a larger Airstream with it, but I have towed larger box trailers, including over the Rockies from Vancouver to Calgary and back.

We now return you to regular Porsche/VW/Audi programming

[jcl]

Originally Posted by keweenawbee

You're right, I'm stepping on the thread a little. It's German though, just with a bit more rear driveline bias (I think, just trolling). Plus the Cayenne, Touareg, and Q7 are the next size up. I just read that our 2018 G01 is the first X3 to have a factory tow receiver option. The spec on ours is 248hp,258 ft/lbs, 4400lb tow capacity (with trailer brakes, odd that we have no controller included though), and a 441lb tongue weight. Are you saying that a WD setup cannot be just "slid in" to my factory receiver? Kinda cool that we may have a 2nd TV option!

I haven't inspected the 2018 receiver to know. What does BMW say about WD equipment with it? No surprise that there is no brake controller, as it is a Euro design and they use surge brakes, with no separate controller.

I still think you should start a new thread

[bono]

G01 has square receiver, not Euro design.

[Sweendk]

In response to an earlier question about Sport mode: I use sport mode exclusively. But, not for the reason you mention. At highway speeds under load, Oil temperature can drop as much as 15 deg F with sport mode engaged. Our car is a 2016 Cayenne S.

[vanster]

We tow with a V10 TDI VW and it gets around 17 mpg around town and towing our 17ft Caravel it gets around 17mpg. I'm not sure it knows that it's towing something.

[HappyHapgood]

Interesting. Why do you think sport mode lowers the oil temperature? I love towing with my 2016 Cayenne Diesel, but the oil temps get a little high on long grades in warm weather.

Originally Posted by Sweendk

In response to an earlier question about Sport mode: I use sport mode exclusively. But, not for the reason you mention. At highway speeds under load, Oil temperature can drop as much as 15 deg F with sport mode engaged. Our car is a 2016 Cayenne S.

[Mr. Merk]

Pretty bummed. We had to cancel our maiden voyage to Colorado due to some health issues our dog is experiencing. Got the Cayenne and the Airstream in the driveway all dressed up and nowhere to go!

Had we not (by chance) discovered what we did while at the Pet ER for another issue, our dog would have died on Pikes Peak.

[bono]

What is the temp range you see? I see mostly 95-105C and once I noticed 135C.

Originally Posted by HappyHapgood

Interesting. Why do you think sport mode lowers the oil temperature? I love towing with my 2016 Cayenne Diesel, but the oil temps get a little high on long grades in warm weather.

[Sweendk]

Originally Posted by bono

What is the temp range you see? I see mostly 95-105C and once I noticed 135C.

Also responding to Mr. Merk's question:

I have seen oil temps as high as 235-240 deg F in the Colorado mountains, driving too fast. I like 200-220 F. Having come from an air cooled background, I was concerned at first. Thinking about modern synthetic oils, I have convinced myself not to worry about it. Yes, I would worry about 135C (~275 deg F).

Also, I have seen a 20 deg F drop in oil temps by switching to sport mode. (I went back and looked at my dash pictures to note it was 20 and not 15 decrease).

Why do I think the temperature decreases with 'Sport' engaged? I don't know since I am not in the business any more, and technical information is nearly impossible to find.

My conjecture? Since my 2016 S does have active flaps for the radiator opening, I can't help wonder if Porsche also put in controls to regulate water flow to the oil cooler (my pure speculation). At any rate, putting it in 'Sport' changes something significant.

Have fun out there (and push that 'Sport' button!)

[Mr. Merk]

Ended up spending Labor Day weekend up in the Ozark mountains. I pulled the Airstream without sport mode or cruise control for about 90 minutes each way, never exceeding 60-65mph on two lane, mostly twisty highway and got about 10mpg until I got to the one last steep mountain that the campground sat on top of. That climb dropped me back down to 8.5mpg.

It was a pretty good shake down of the camper. Learned what we liked and didn't like compared to our Keystone that we renovated last year. The tiny bathroom and the convection oven are the biggest negatives for me.

We took the wife's Carrera 4S and I got a couple hours of GOOD driving in one day.

[Sweendk]

Nice trip! Where did you camp in the Ozarks? Taking the 911 was brilliant (I hope to finish my '71 eventually...). Someday I hope we can have an in-depth conversation about our Porsches.
Kirk
PS: Our Cayenne 'S' also dips below 10MPG, a little more than expected, but not a real concern..

[Mr. Merk]

Originally Posted by Sweendk

Nice trip! Where did you camp in the Ozarks? Taking the 911 was brilliant (I hope to finish my '71 eventually...). Someday I hope we can have an in-depth conversation about our Porsches.
Kirk
PS: Our Cayenne 'S' also dips below 10MPG, a little more than expected, but not a real concern..

We stayed at the Buffalo Outdoor Center RV park. Its a nice spot, very open.

You'll need to bring the '71 down for our Drive OZ rallye, first one is the end of next month. Also, Luftgekuhlt in LA each Spring is not to be missed! We've driven out there twice in my '88 Carrera.

Back on topic: I was pretty disappointed that we only got 8.5mpg on the 4600 mile round-trip to Banff. Now that I think about it, we were in sports mode, with the cruise set much of the time at 70+mph. Every guy I talk to with a gasser 1/2 or 3/4 ton is only get 8mpg going 60mph.

On this trip we had a site neighbor with a Touareg TDI pulling a giant tear-drop. While we were packing up nice retired Veteran with a Tundra came and knocked on our door. He couldn't believe we were pulling these trailers with "such a little car."

[Tom_T]

Sounds like a fun trip Merk!


Small world, as I was over in the not far away Cookson Hills & Sallisaw OK area for Labor Day weekend, also in past years we've camped further up the river at Buffalo River NP a few times in our VW Westfalia before Labor Day on our trip to Sallisaw, when my in-laws were still around & living in Little Rock. Love that section of the Ozarks.



When you come out to SoCal for the Luftgekuhlt in LA, check the PCA Zone 8 website for other events & gatherings in the area during your stay, since we have 8 Regions from Santa Barbara south to the border, & they all have 1-2+ things every week.



Back to the subject at hand ....



As for mpg, you'll get far better mpg at lower speeds 55-65, than 70+ - no matter the TV - but I'm surprised to see 8.5 - 10 mpg on your Turbo, as there were other CT owners on here who reported 12-13-ish mpg in earlier posts.



But then, the Turbos & GTSs & gas V6s tend to get a bit lower mpg when hitched, than the normally aspirated V8 CS - while the V6 will be a bit better when not towing. The CS V8s seem to be reporting back 13-15 mpg when towing.





So I'm surprised that Sweendk is also reporting 10 mpg & less in their CS.


Sweendk - is this CS mpg a matter of terrain &/or higher speeds, or what?



I may be looking at a `13 CS this weekend, so would like to know whether the gas normally aspirated V8 is really getting 13-15 mpg running at say 65-ish mpg.



I've been thinking that the n.a. V8 CS was the sweet spot for towing mpg wise, & that's what we're mostly going to use ours for.



Also OT for you Sweendk - I feel your pain on delays in getting my own `73 914-2.0 "914-S" resto going again & done! Just too many other things going on, including a resto/renovation of our 1921 Craftsman home literally in the way of getting it to the shop!



There are some Tulsa & Midwest 914ers who do a Talimena Run in 914s that I'd love to do in mine one day. From what I understand, past runs have had as many as 50 914s from all over.



I'm sure that they'd allow a few "Tail-draggers" tag along with the "Middies" - if it's of interest to either of you.



Cheers!
Tom
///////

[Mr. Merk]

I think having a 957 contributes to the lower MPG having less gears. I know the 958 has the same engine but the different transmission reduces the 0-60 by .5 sec iirc. I'm sure it affects the fuel mileage as well.

[Knuff]

I started this thread in 2015 when we upgraded our Porsche Cayenne / 20ft Flying Cloud setup by replacing the 20ft Airstream with our 25FB International.

I did not check the forum for quite some time - we really enjoy our trailer, being out in mainly state parks or boon docking for about 2-3 months each year (in 2-3 weeks segments). I think that it is time for a quick update about how things are going.

The Cayenne just had its 70K service, probably 65K of all these miles we towed our Airstream.

Still there are no issues. We had one flat tire a few years back, but the TPMS notified us about the problem and we found a tire place within 20 min. We ditched the spare after upgrading to LT Michelins. The Airstream (Zeppel 2) is up for new tires before the end of the year - mainly because I see some early signs of tread separation and rather be safe than sorry.

At 60K, the Cayenne (Diesel) had an issue with its particle filter. It did no longer regenerate and needed to be replaced. This is early, and I wonder that it happened because we mainly use the car for towing. Luckily, Porsche extended the warranty on our 2014 Diesel as part of their response to the scandal. Filter replaced at no cost!

I noticed that the Cayenne drinks BlueDef - we now have a spare canister in the car just in case.

After eating 1 quart of oil every 2000 miles, after about 50K miles, the oil consumption has leveled at about 1 quart/4000 miles.

3rd set of Grapplers on the car. We like to go down gravel roads and some moderate off roads when we are out in Southern Utah. Towing is definitely destroying the tires on the Cayenne much quicker.

For some reason, we have issues with our solar panels (400W should be ample) - it seems that the connectors keep on failing. We still have our Methanol Fuel Cell (Efoy80) and we love it. If there is no sun or little sun, we can go for at least two weeks without plugging in on one cartridge of methanol).

Here are some recent images of the good times

[COSpringer]

We took a long road trip in September from Colorado back East and back, 4,900 miles, 16 states, 27 days. My rig is a '77 Argosy 20 towed by a 2014 Touareg TDI that's had the remap. Lowest mpg was 17.0 for a tank and highest was 21.1, average was probably 18-19. It did drink a lot of DEF, maybe 500 miles per gallon. (If you're going on a long trip, take some to refill; the VW AdBlue works best because the 2 liter refill has an automatic shut off when it's full.) Oil temp stayed on 220 throughout. Had one breakdown and had to replace the EGR cooler but was able to limp into a VW dealer and it was covered by the emissions system warranty. But overall, I love my Treg TDI to tow my Argosy!

[vanster]

We just did a 3000 mile loop towing our Caravel thru BC Idaho and Montana with our V10 TDI. The VW has a towing mode which prevents trailer swing...very cool. Average mpg was around 17. Never got warm going up long grades. Although VW says it's wired for a brake controller I spent hours trying to find the wire and I could not find it, either could the dealer. We know its there somewhere. I bought an Autobrake ( $350 ) which I attached behind the propane tanks along with a junction box ( 67 AS does not have one) The Autobrake is a computer that works off the taillights. Calibrate it once and that's it. No digging into the car wiring. I'm really impressed. The VW weighs close to 6000 #'s and the big front Brembo's haul it down well but and now with this brake system all is good. Our '67 Caravel is around 3200 wet. The sad part about the V10 is that they are hard to find and it's a beast. It's not a daily driver as we now only use it for towing. It likes long trips not a grocery getter. Advice, change the and filter often ( 12qts) and follow the factory manual.