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Old 05-09-2008, 10:16 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by UpNorthAir
Who Killed the Electric Car?

Pretty neat movie....... Anybody else ever seen it?

BTW, I want one of those Plug in Hybrid Suburbans. I have six kids, that thing would fit my family perfectly. Bummer they are not available
Excellent movie and and it makes you wonder why all of us do not have a solar panels on our roof producing juice back to the grid. In theory the utility should turn our meter backwards for a credit. So, why has it not happened? I think I know why, big utilities and oil see this as a threat. Look at it this way, Rich in Orlando, and those out west with days and days of sunshine, you could produce enough watts to basically power an electric car, and your house, for most of your local needs. Use your gasser for the big trips. We have had no leadership in this area ever. I blame both dems and republicans for this. They are both in the bed of big oil and electric companies. Just think of where we could be, that big solar engine millions of miles from us is free energy. It is a sad, and we are all guilty as charged.
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Old 05-09-2008, 11:18 PM   #44
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Grid-tied systems are just starting to show up here. These systems generate solar electricity and route it to the electric utility grid, offsetting a home's power consumption and, in some cases, turn the electric meter backwards.
I don't think the systems are subsidized and are pretty expensive to install. I know of one house in my neighborhood with this setup.
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Old 05-10-2008, 07:34 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by safari 28
Excellent movie and and it makes you wonder why all of us do not have a solar panels on our roof producing juice back to the grid. In theory the utility should turn our meter backwards for a credit. So, why has it not happened? I think I know why...
Well... either that, or solar is more expensive than the alternative. Neat chart on this site Solar Photovoltaic Industry Cost and Price Trends shows the relative costs for remote industrial (favors solar) through urban grid-tied (solar is more expensive).

I've toyed with looking into both grid and non-grid tied solar for our house, and came to the conclusion that the return on investment is around 20 yrs - longer than I think worthwhile. Even if you could sell power during peak use, we're still talking about comparing something like 7-10 cents per KWH (Duke Energy) to something more along the lines of 50 cents to a couple bucks per KWH. Now, I haven't done a simulation with a wide variety of energy prices scoped out ten years and including all the obvious things (lost value of money, increased value of home, tax benefits, etc), and if I ever get to the point where I want to sell Mrs Redshed on this I'll have to do all of that first.

That aside, I could see a solar powered non-grid system as a viable backup to provide enough juice to run the furnace after an ice storm, for example.
Battery life cycle costs are probably balanced against fuel stability for gasoline generators, but the solar would score much better if the power remained off for several days.

Obviously, I haven't finished thinking about it, but right now it's just a theoretical exercise.

But I find the suggestion that Big Oil is the entity that conspires with Big Coal to keep solar off everyone's roof is hard to take seriously.
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Old 05-10-2008, 10:20 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by RedSHED
Well... either that, or solar is more expensive than the alternative. Neat chart on this site Solar Photovoltaic Industry Cost and Price Trends shows the relative costs for remote industrial (favors solar) through urban grid-tied (solar is more expensive).

I've toyed with looking into both grid and non-grid tied solar for our house, and came to the conclusion that the return on investment is around 20 yrs - longer than I think worthwhile. Even if you could sell power during peak use, we're still talking about comparing something like 7-10 cents per KWH (Duke Energy) to something more along the lines of 50 cents to a couple bucks per KWH. Now, I haven't done a simulation with a wide variety of energy prices scoped out ten years and including all the obvious things (lost value of money, increased value of home, tax benefits, etc), and if I ever get to the point where I want to sell Mrs Redshed on this I'll have to do all of that first.

That aside, I could see a solar powered non-grid system as a viable backup to provide enough juice to run the furnace after an ice storm, for example.
Battery life cycle costs are probably balanced against fuel stability for gasoline generators, but the solar would score much better if the power remained off for several days.

Obviously, I haven't finished thinking about it, but right now it's just a theoretical exercise.

But I find the suggestion that Big Oil is the entity that conspires with Big Coal to keep solar off everyone's roof is hard to take seriously.

Well at least you have explored it. That is more than most. I read it quickly, did you add in the tax credits and any current incentives for your state? I live about 2 months of the year in Colorado, the utility is required by law to pay for all the equipment to turn the meter backwards. It seems with all the incentives and tax credits they quoted my daughter a 5-7 year pay back. You can bet the gas water heater and clothes dryer will be replaced if they go with the system. It is sunny 350 days/year where she lives.

Your comment on big oil and utilities is interesting. I would think the lobby group they have in washington is huge. It is here the glaring lack of leadership and politicians from both sides of the aisle are guilty as charged. I would imagine all the money we have given away over say the past 10 years to other countries( who mostly hate us) would have put up solar panels on every house and building in this great country and more. I mean even a simple solar water heater would have been a huge contribution. O well, we can only hope this is done for our children and their children before it is too late. To be honest, I am ashamed of the mess we are handing over to them. We have let them down big time. To see my son who works very hard for his money spend 85.00 for gas last night to fill his car was just pitiful.
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Old 05-11-2008, 02:56 PM   #47
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i have devised this amazing energy saving plan.CAUTION , this amazing energy saving plan should not be viewed by IQ joke sensitive individuals.here is the plan......#1.drive shorter distances to camp(no matter what fuel you use). #2.turn off motor and camp longer. #3. repeat steps #1 and #2. #4. (optional) lighten - up,have a good time !
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Old 05-11-2008, 03:01 PM   #48
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(repeat-this is IQ joke sensitive material)
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Old 05-11-2008, 08:00 PM   #49
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short film clip sums it all up.....jon stewart comedy central interviews chris paine who owned an electric built by GM.look it up,then give it up and revert to steps #1,2,3,and4(optional).
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