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Old 05-12-2016, 07:26 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 909kenu View Post
As the original post states, Planning not to use WDH but....I have been "swayed".

My gut feeling and experience is my truck pulling a trailer properly loaded would be fine. People have stated, how do you know its properly loaded? Well, sometimes I don't. For example, pulling equipment on a flat bed. If the skid steer or whatever is positioned a few inches forward or back it changes the tongue weight. I error on the side of more tongue weight, if I must guess. The truck, crew cab, long bed, DRW is tolerent or more forgiving than a short wheel based truck, physics. I think.

That being said, I pondered on the "set it forget it and pray" sway control. Put it on, just to say it's on.

Well, I had the $3000.......but I gave it to Hensley. LOL....sorta....crying.
I did purchase a refurbished unit, as PKI mentioned. Its less $ but still hurts.
Totally eliminate sway is the claim, we shall see.

I believe I have the original axles from 78, torsion bars look neutral. Like me it's got that age thing going on. I am thinking, of getting more belly clearance when replacing the axles. Especially with my sway eliminated, LOL
Good on 'ya...I doubt you'll regret it.


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Old 05-13-2016, 08:19 AM   #72
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In the last ten days, I drove over two thousand miles at 55 mph on Interstates and dual lane state highways and was passed by everyone including more semi trucks than I could count. Never had a wiggle in the rig which is a 2015 23D International Serenity weighing about 6,068 pounds attached to the Mercedes ML320 CDI (short wheel base vehicle) with a Hensley Arrow.

It does what is advertised - no sway from either gusting side winds or passing vehicles.
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Old 05-13-2016, 10:54 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by switz View Post
In the last ten days, I drove over two thousand miles at 55 mph on Interstates and dual lane state highways and was passed by everyone including more semi trucks than I could count. Never had a wiggle in the rig which is a 2015 23D International Serenity weighing about 6,068 pounds attached to the Mercedes ML320 CDI (short wheel base vehicle) with a Hensley Arrow.

It does what is advertised - no sway from either gusting side winds or passing vehicles.
I see one of your TVs is a 3/4 ton truck. Have you used the truck to tow the same trailer? Pros and Cons?

We have a 2011 5.3 Chevy Tahoe w tow package. I'm wondering if that would be a better TV for the Argosy 26? Old and fragile?

The Hensley is on schedule for delivery, Monday. The information I gave them was for my truck.
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Old 05-14-2016, 08:56 AM   #74
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Planning not to use WDH, bad idea?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 909kenu View Post
Recently acquired 26 Argosy, came with a Reese WD hitch (1000lbs bars). I was not planning to use it or any other WD/sway control. But reading the most of the posts it may be a requirement even for long wheel base trucks.



I have experience towing boats, utility trailers, construction equipment since the early 90's. I have even experienced violent sway and hit a K-rail due to a shifted load to the rear. I was much younger then. I check and recheck tie downs from that experience.



I understand the concept of safety vs. cost. But what is it that makes the Airstream different from my friends toy hauler? The shape? Axle placement? Or is it when the front fresh water tank is empty and the rears are full (tongue weight)?



My TV is a crew cab dually. It should be enough truck but reading it's not safe to tow without has me concerned.



Is sway control without weight distribution available or even an option?



Sorry, if its a beat to death topic

It's the wind load. Travel trailers are affected by winds that other trailer types are not. It's the "sail area"'of the sidewalls, in main.

The box type TTs with their squared edges allow winds to pile up along the length of the trailer. Pushing hardest at the rear. The shape of our trailer type allows the winds to go up and over, creating more of a "pull". That ours are also low ground clearance minimizes complications from air flow underneath. Independent suspension means (sort of) a wider stance as to balance. Resistance to tipping.

Towing below 55 generally isn't an area for concern. Bright sunny day with perfectly smooth pavement and long sight lines? No sweat. Broken pavement, that's a problem. Wet, that's a problem. Winding road, that's a problem. Traffic, that's a problem. Etc.

Keeping the Steer Axle at the same weight improves handling. Transferring weight to the trailer axles improves braking.

A WDH with integrated antisway ensures a good amount of insurance in situations, as above, where everything goes wrong in a split second. (The recommendation of the REESE Dual Cam thread above is very good. Lots you can do with that hitch system to dial it in very closely for your specific, EXACT, combined rig).

The point of contention is the TV rear axle tire contact patch. Once traction is lost there, bad things happen.

FWIW, I've seen 1800-lb trailer compressors take DRW pickups clean off the road. Not once, but twice. At below highway speeds. I've also hauled with them commercially. Wet surface traction is lousy.

Sure, you can do without WDH. Or a quality brake controller. Cheap tires. The list goes on. But experience says it's better to do it right the first time.

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Old 05-14-2016, 12:35 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 909kenu View Post

Is sway control without weight distribution available or even an option?
to answer you original question. While i would not suggest using the Andersen with some WD function applied it is the only system that does not require the forces created by the application of WD to cause the WD aspects of the system to function.

Someone has commented that the Andersen has NO WD function. All I can say to that is not someone who has figured out how that system works and thus continue to judge it by outdated ideas.

The sway function of the Andersen is a function of the tongue weight only and is not effected by the amount of force used for WD purposes. You would have to have minimum tension on the chains to transfer angular displacement, between the TV and trailer, to the plate attached to the bottom of the ball shaft. That displacement and it's possibility of it becoming sway is dampened by the friction of the brake material in the ball shaft and thus controls sway.

I suggest you ask anyone using an Andersen for comments and not just take my 3 years usage against my 40 years of bar type WD systems usage as conclusive.
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Old 05-14-2016, 01:37 PM   #76
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We used an Andersen hitch and found it does have friction sway resistance, although it allows considerable sideways movement on normal operation. In other words you will be pushed around by gusting side winds and semi bow wave moving the trailer out of alignment with the truck. It also does not have enough leverage in the design to distribute more than a small an amount of the tongue weight of our Airstream.

The hitch design that completely eliminates the trailer from being pushed out of alignment with the truck, and with no dependency on weight distribution (the two functions are totally independent) is the Hensley/Propride. The possibility of sway is eliminated, and the separate w.d. function is easily adjustable with screw jacks and is plenty substantial.

Because the sway elimination function is independent of trailer weight on the ball, and unlike some built-in friction sway control systems, the sway elimination function applies no resistance to the trailer returning to alignment with the truck after any steering inputs, and it cannot go out of alignment with the truck unless the truck initiates a turn, important on icy roads.

A less expensive type hitch that separates w.d. and sway control is Eaze-Lift, with separate and adjustable friction sway control bar(s).
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Old 05-14-2016, 06:55 PM   #77
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The truck took over towing duties of the 2013 25FB International Serenity with a Hensley Arrow hitch when the Mercedes failed the axle weights at the scales. We did quite a few trips and there were no sway issues and we towed at 65 mpg max.

We traded the 25FB in for the 2014 31' Classic and and I kept the Hensley Arrow Hitch and put it in the storage unit. When the Classic came, it was immediately fitted with the Pro Pride by me after I got the Classic to our storage unit.

So the 2015 23D International Serenity was fitted with the Hensley Arrow hitch I already had in storage. I used the same screw jack measurements for the 23D as the 25FB as both trailers were fitted with the same model 15" Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL tires so the trailers were at the same elevation. The 23D just had a 1,300 pound lower GVW fully loaded.

Where I ran 3" on the 25FB screw jacks, I am running 3 ⅜" on the 23D screw jacks. 3 ½" is too little underway. and the rig will porpoise some at that setting.
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Old 05-14-2016, 07:25 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post

A less expensive type hitch that separates w.d. and sway control is Eaz-Lift, with separate and adjustable friction sway control bar(s).
Is the Eaz-Lift any better (or worse) than what seem to be its twins, such as the Curt or even the Reece SC or Pro, as examples? I know Andy T suggests the Eaz-Lift, but why, as contrasted with the Curt?

The Curt has zerks for the bars and the Eaz-Lift doesn't, but otherwise they appear virtually identical.

I understand why many recommend the Hensley/ProPride, but for those of us using 1/2 tons with real payload limitations, aren't there other pretty acceptable solutions? I note that Andy Thomson doesn't much like the Hensley/ProPride option, for reasons not articulated.
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Old 05-14-2016, 07:42 PM   #79
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Colonial RV is selling me an Equal-I-Zer hitch on the sale of a new trailer. Take that for what it's worth.
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Old 05-14-2016, 08:23 PM   #80
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Bob662, Can-Am has been doing this for 40 years, the only hitch experts on this forum. I've talked to them and they have helped us set up two tow vehicles. I don't think they have anything against the Hensley design because they do use it on some vehicles, but they have taken the hitch setup process to a level where they feel they can get plenty of sway control choosing good tow vehicle design, tires, shocks, hitch placement and adjustment, and especially ideal weight distribution, all tailored your specific vehicle.

We also use a half-ton and were never able to get anywhere near the towing behavior the Hensley/ProPride gives. They are heavy but the heavy weight is mounted on the hitch head and stays there. It weighs about 180 lbs or about 100 lbs more than conventional hitches.

We justify it this way, 100 lbs distributed across truck and Airstream axles adds about 40 lbs per truck axle and 20 lbs to the trailer over a conventional hitch. Our truck/trailer weighs 11,000 lbs give or take, the ProPride difference compared to a conventional hitch is easily accepted considering its many benefits, incomparable towing comfort being the most significant.

FCStreamer, our dealer sold us an Equal-I-Zer as well. Good weight distribution, slow to resist wind gust and semi push, very stiff w.d. bars. For what it's worth Colonial also sells ProPride.
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Old 05-14-2016, 08:35 PM   #81
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IMO, you don't need a heavy, complex, and expensive hitch for safe and comfortable towing. Nothing wrong with those hitches. I'm sure they are great and work as advertised. But to suggest that not using them compromises safety or towing comfort is just not accurate. Tens of thousands of white box trailers are pulled safely and comfortably all over the country with simple hitches with pickups. Why can't aerodynamic airstream, which has low center of gravity, independent suspension, be pulled comfortably with a simple hitch? If you MUST use the most complex hitch in the market for safe towing, what does it say about towing characteristics of an Airstream?
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Old 05-15-2016, 12:17 AM   #82
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Why do people buy Airstreams when white box trailers are so much cheaper?

My two Airstreams want to sway above 60 mph. With my Hensley they tow like a dream.

Certainly any trailer can be safe if it is not towed past its safe limits, but like I have said before, I cant drive 55. 🚜




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Old 05-15-2016, 02:26 AM   #83
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IMO, you don't need a heavy, complex, and expensive hitch for safe and comfortable towing. Nothing wrong with those hitches. I'm sure they are great and work as advertised. But to suggest that not using them compromises safety or towing comfort is just not accurate. Tens of thousands of white box trailers are pulled safely and comfortably all over the country with simple hitches with pickups. Why can't aerodynamic airstream, which has low center of gravity, independent suspension, be pulled comfortably with a simple hitch? If you MUST use the most complex hitch in the market for safe towing, what does it say about towing characteristics of an Airstream?
Well said.
All this fancy hitch stuff is more about status, fear of towing and a lack of understanding of towing characteristics than anything else. I think there's a bit of comspicuous consumption thrown into the mix as well.
The OP is towing with a ONE TON pickup for cripesakes.
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Old 05-15-2016, 07:39 AM   #84
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Question

Another 'fact' from the non-user-fancy-status group....

A one ton TV has no effect or control over sway, you may not feel it in a 3500 dually, but it still can happen.... the PPP system prevents sway from starting when properly set up.

"I don't even know it's there" does nothing for safety and may even be a bit dangerous.

...... if you haven't tried it just say it's to expensive and leave it at that.



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