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Old 05-08-2016, 04:41 PM   #57
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Just to throw a little fuel on the fire, page 689 of the 2016 RAM 2500/3500 owner's manual (available to all on the ramtrucks.com site) states the following:

Quote:
If the gross trailer weight is 5,000 lbs (2 267 kg) or more, it is recommended to use a weight-distributing hitch to ensure stable handling of your vehicle. If you use a standard weight-carrying hitch, you could lose control of your vehicle and cause a collision.
Do as you see fit. Seems to me a small price to pay, but as long as it's not my vehicle - or life - you destroy on that million-to-one occasion, have at it.

Jim
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Old 05-08-2016, 06:07 PM   #58
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Yes, it is a bad idea. The axle location and lateral profile of an AS can result in sway if the tow stability profile is exceeded. A boat trailer places the axles quite far back to balance the aft weight of the engine mass. This provides a different towing stability profile than an AS. A trash trailer is usually shorter than an AS and often is towed at slower speed. Sway is not a problem, until it is a growing problem. It is a bad idea to assume that since you have not experienced sway on prior trailers that it will not ever be a problem on a future coach.

The other issue is that a stiff tow vehicle needs a soft coach connection. Take care with your bar selection.

Travel safe. Pat
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Old 05-08-2016, 06:11 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
I have not read all of the posts to this tread so I will address my comments directly to your original post.

Yes many have towed boats, utility trailers and toy haulers without sway control. I think the difference is that RVs are towed generally over greater distance and over roads that permit high speeds than the the boat to the dock or the utility trailer to the dump. This presents a different driving environment and more frequent chance of a problem and thus many see a need for a WD system.

In your case the your truck clearly will not need a WD system but you might consider the sway control offered by the Andersen system.
I am sorry to rain on you parade friend but the Anderson does "NOT" have sway control! There is nothing in that hitch that counters the sway direction. It does a passable job on WD but even that gets involved by having to add or remove chain links. I lived with one for one year, I wouldn't recommend it to friend for sure.
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Old 05-08-2016, 07:11 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKI View Post
Yes, it is a bad idea. The axle location and lateral profile of an AS can result in sway if the tow stability profile is exceeded. A boat trailer places the axles quite far back to balance the aft weight of the engine mass. This provides a different towing stability profile than an AS. A trash trailer is usually shorter than an AS and often is towed at slower speed. Sway is not a problem, until it is a growing problem. It is a bad idea to assume that since you have not experienced sway on prior trailers that it will not ever be a problem on a future coach.

The other issue is that a stiff tow vehicle needs a soft coach connection. Take care with your bar selection.

Travel safe. Pat
Yes, I have never felt sway on any trailer we pull that was properly loaded. I have crashed when one wasn't. This is the reason the truck after incident has been long wheel base DRW trucks.

Thus my original post. It's great to hear everyone's experiences. I try to figure out if the recommendation is valid for me. Are they towing with a CJ5 or a long wheel based truck? Trailer size?

As I continue to gather info, I will be using some type of sway control rather than going without as I was planning.

I have been researching stand alone sway control but it is very limited as most tie into the WD bars or come together as a set.

Bar selection? Do I call the manufacture and tell them TV, 26' Argosy, weight and they will know?

Any suggestions?
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Old 05-08-2016, 08:17 PM   #61
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I already had towed a 25FB International Serenity with a Hensley Arrow hitch attached to my 2012 Ram 2500HD Cummins, Crew Cab, Short Bed. There were no sway issues with the trailer and we adjusted the jacks plus or minus a quarter inch from the three inch setting.

When The 25FB was traded in I kept the Hensley Arrow. For the ordered 31' Classic, I decided to get the second generation Jim Hensley hitch called the ProPride. I would not trust the selling dealer to install a screw in light bulb let alone install the new hitch.

So I showed up to tow the Classic to the storage unit with just a ball in the Curt 15049 aftermarket receiver (rated 2,550 pound tongue weight and a 17,000 pound trailer). The truck had been modified with a full Kelderman level ride air bag suspension system from new.

Being new and no twin mattresses in the rear (intentionally left them at factory) but full propane tanks, the trailer should have towed fine with a heavier tongue weight than completely empty with rear bedding.. It did not and there were some swaying issues at the 45mph city street speeds and the front wheels felt light despite the level ride functioning to keep it level. It seemed like a very long 20 mile drive to the storage unit.

After installing the ProPride and doing lots of major modifications, the trailer scales about 9,200 pounds with a 1,175 pound tongue weight. There have been no sway events since the hitch was installed.

I put the stored, left over Hensley Arrow on the 23D before leaving the selling dealership lot. I never have experienced any sway issues despite towing with a 2007 Mercedes ML320 CDI diesel. The last three days driving from Show Low, AZ to Paradise, TX on highways US 60 and Hwy 380, I experienced significant curb side and rear curb quarter winds with gusts to over 30 mph with no sway events.

Before really understanding the term 'properly load the trailer", I loaded up a tandem axle U-Haul with too much heavy stuff towards the rear. Going down a long steep descent West of Albuquerque on I-40, the trailer suddenly started fish tailing all over the place. Once stopped and the load adjusted, that issue did not repeat.

So the properly setup hitch with enough rating to properly handle the actual tongue weight as determined by working on a CAT scales is my recommendation to any who ask. The factory literature tongue weights have been historically understated.
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Old 05-08-2016, 09:30 PM   #62
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http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...-43568-24.html

Try this thread. It gives some info on the Reese and using lighter weight bars. Good background with respect to any hitch selection.

Pat
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Old 05-09-2016, 12:06 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKI View Post
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...-43568-24.html

Try this thread. It gives some info on the Reese and using lighter weight bars. Good background with respect to any hitch selection.

Pat
Thank you for that. Now that I'm planning a purchase, is the Reese dual cam set up a respectable one, today? Or is the Haha or PP the only way to go?
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Old 05-09-2016, 01:21 AM   #64
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It is believed that you can tow safely with a variety of hitch designs.

The Reese is a respected hitch, but must be properly setup and maintained. The Equalizer is respected by many, but I do not care for the rigidity of the design. The Anderson hitch is either loved or hated and most believe it only works on light weight coaches. Horse trailers with a longer axle setback seem to do well with the Anderson hitch. The Easylift with brake pad sway control is the least expensive solution and promoted by many as all you need.. The Blue Ox may be the best non-force projection hitch, but it is not respected by many Equilizer and Reese users. I am prejudiced in favor of ithe Blue Ox Sway Pro because it can be set up light and still provide sway control. The PP and HA hitches are generally well respected and only get attacked because of their weight and high cost ($2-3K). They are not a perfect hitch, but most owners would never use any other design.

If you can afford a force projection hitch and your TV can carry the weight, it is likely the best hitch solution. Read the Hensley and ProPride forum threads. Note that used and rebuilt hitches are available for lower cost. They do break and can be repaired under warranty, but you have to pay to ship a very heavy hitch to get it repaired.

The other hitches have threads too. Good idea to understand the value of each hitch design. People have towed thousands of miles with non-force projection hitches. Do your research and make a decision that meets your objectives.

Travel Safe. Pat
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Old 05-09-2016, 05:30 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKI View Post
It is believed that you can tow safely with a variety of hitch designs.

The Reese is a respected hitch, but must be properly setup and maintained. The Equalizer is respected by many, but I do not care for the rigidity of the design. The Anderson hitch is either loved or hated and most believe it only works on light weight coaches. Horse trailers with a longer axle setback seem to do well with the Anderson hitch. The Easylift with brake pad sway control is the least expensive solution and promoted by many as all you need.. The Blue Ox may be the best non-force projection hitch, but it is not respected by many Equilizer and Reese users. I am prejudiced in favor of ithe Blue Ox Sway Pro because it can be set up light and still provide sway control. The PP and HA hitches are generally well respected and only get attacked because of their weight and high cost ($2-3K). They are not a perfect hitch, but most owners would never use any other design.

If you can afford a force projection hitch and your TV can carry the weight, it is likely the best hitch solution. Read the Hensley and ProPride forum threads. Note that used and rebuilt hitches are available for lower cost. They do break and can be repaired under warranty, but you have to pay to ship a very heavy hitch to get it repaired.

The other hitches have threads too. Good idea to understand the value of each hitch design. People have towed thousands of miles with non-force projection hitches. Do your research and make a decision that meets your objectives.

Travel Safe. Pat
Thanks for all your input. I have tried to keep an open mind while ingesting pertinent information from every ones input. I did a quick read on the thread you posted. Seems I have a lot to learn.

I suppose you can have too much truck. A nice ridding smooth TV may be better suited to tow the Argosy/Airstream. With the TV I have, stiffest truck I have ever owned will need a soft connection.

May be I need a new TV with a softer suspension? $50,000? Still would need WD/Sway control.

Or Hensley? $2,000.00+ or so for an original refurbished.

In my head, this is what I'm telling the wife. My justification.......
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Old 05-09-2016, 10:35 PM   #66
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To Franklyfrank: I beg to differ with your comment that Andersen has NO sway control.
Obviously you are not familiar with the hitch.
It does have sway control. The socket that the ball sits in has a 360 degree brake pad. Unlike other hitches the Andersen ball rotates with the tongue of the coach.
The heavier the tongue weight the higher the resistance to sway.
I use the Andersen on my 26' Argosy. Have towed it some 15K miles. No issues with sway.
I previously tried one of those brake bar type of anti sway units. I found it to be noisey and no where close to providing a stable sway control.
When you set the unit tight enough to prevent sway on straight roads then take the curvy mountain roads it takes a lot of force to bring the coach back in line after going thru the curves. The same force that prevents sway on straight roads has to be overcome in order to bring the coach back in line coming out of a curve.
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Old 05-11-2016, 10:39 AM   #67
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Some trailers are fine without sway control and some are not and it depends on how they are loaded. I don't use sway or weight distribution on my 16ft tandem axel flatbed trailer or my 5x8 cargot trailer. I have never had a hint of sway. The 31 ft Airstream needs it over 55mph. If you turtle along most anything is stable. Drive down the road at different speeds and give the wheel a little wiggle and watch the trailer in the rear view mirror. When it starts to wag back and forth it is because it is getting unstable. The faster you go the more unstable after this point. Most sway control tries to damp this with a friction system that works well in most cases. Mine uses a brake that is adjustable which is the old way of doing it but requires some brains to use properly. New systems are more automatic but have few if any adjustments. Set it forget it and pray. If you have $3000 you can get a Hensley and have no sway at all.

Perry
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Old 05-11-2016, 12:33 PM   #68
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I do not know if you need a wd hitch. Mine takes about 3 min to connect the bars. I can set a wide range of wt transfer with no trouble. My truck is a 2500 and the trailer rides smoothly and suffers no damage. Plus one has the option on taking off the bars for slow going on really bad roads or unlevel campsites.

So my question is what would be gained by not using a wd hitch?
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Old 05-11-2016, 01:37 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Bill M. View Post
I do not know if you need a wd hitch. Mine takes about 3 min to connect the bars. I can set a wide range of wt transfer with no trouble. My truck is a 2500 and the trailer rides smoothly and suffers no damage. Plus one has the option on taking off the bars for slow going on really bad roads or unlevel campsites.
And your wd hitch is???
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Old 05-12-2016, 02:34 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by perryg114 View Post
Some trailers are fine without sway control and some are not and it depends on how they are loaded. I don't use sway or weight distribution on my 16ft tandem axel flatbed trailer or my 5x8 cargot trailer. I have never had a hint of sway. The 31 ft Airstream needs it over 55mph. If you turtle along most anything is stable. Drive down the road at different speeds and give the wheel a little wiggle and watch the trailer in the rear view mirror. When it starts to wag back and forth it is because it is getting unstable. The faster you go the more unstable after this point. Most sway control tries to damp this with a friction system that works well in most cases. Mine uses a brake that is adjustable which is the old way of doing it but requires some brains to use properly. New systems are more automatic but have few if any adjustments. Set it forget it and pray. If you have $3000 you can get a Hensley and have no sway at all.

Perry
As the original post states, Planning not to use WDH but....I have been "swayed".

My gut feeling and experience is my truck pulling a trailer properly loaded would be fine. People have stated, how do you know its properly loaded? Well, sometimes I don't. For example, pulling equipment on a flat bed. If the skid steer or whatever is positioned a few inches forward or back it changes the tongue weight. I error on the side of more tongue weight, if I must guess. The truck, crew cab, long bed, DRW is tolerent or more forgiving than a short wheel based truck, physics. I think.

That being said, I pondered on the "set it forget it and pray" sway control. Put it on, just to say it's on.

Well, I had the $3000.......but I gave it to Hensley. LOL....sorta....crying.
I did purchase a refurbished unit, as PKI mentioned. Its less $ but still hurts.
Totally eliminate sway is the claim, we shall see.

I believe I have the original axles from 78, torsion bars look neutral. Like me it's got that age thing going on. I am thinking, of getting more belly clearance when replacing the axles. Especially with my sway eliminated, LOL
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