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Old 04-02-2012, 11:55 PM   #15
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Beauty is in the numbers. The topper would be an option. And the one above isn't aero in a strict sense, but only an idea of same. As one truly built for FE is worth a 20% increase in mpg, I'll bet you'd get over a narrow idea of aesthetic quality.

Nothing beautiful about a Herky bird, either, Bob. It's all about what it can do.

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Old 04-03-2012, 06:02 AM   #16
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"Nothing beautiful about a Herky bird, either, Bob. It's all about what it can do."

Red....how can you say such a thing!!!

Beauty is in the beholder of the eye...

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Old 04-03-2012, 06:59 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by tpi View Post
I welcome any and all new thinking on pickup truck design.

Its a very conservative market however. Rugged, big, tall, tough,etc. Is there room for anything else? I'd like a dose (even if small) of efficient, elegant, sophisticated, lower, aerodynamic, athletic.
Were on the same page tpi.

Also, our neighbor is a business man. His previous vehicle was a Lincoln sport sedan which he enjoyed.
He now owns a big, loaded up Ford pickup. In the year he has owned it the only thing he has carried in the truck beside himself is his dog, which sits in the front seat beside him. He doesn't tow anything. IMHO this sport vehicle I posted the pic of would be ideal for him and so much more fun to drive compared to his 1/2 ton, at least in my mind.
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:55 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
"Nothing beautiful about a Herky bird, either, Bob. It's all about what it can do."

Red....how can you say such a thing!!!

Beauty is in the beholder of the eye...

Bob

This beholder has, as you know, always admired the Herc's . . . and has come to appreciate the roadbound vehicles that slip more quietly through the air. Less horsepower demand = more available for fun. Fun being towing a strangely shaped "box" made of metal.

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Old 04-03-2012, 10:37 AM   #19
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To damn ugly....

Bob
Looks like a wash compared to the original post.
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:26 PM   #20
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But neither the pic above nor the SSR were pickup trucks.....they are cars with really big trunks....configured to sorta look like a truck. Study the photo for awhile.
You are completely wrong about the SSR. The SSR is a truck with a full frame. LS2 V8...400hp, 400lb/ft, RWD...it just happens to be a truck that's fun, fast, and PERFECT for exploring the mountains with the top down...WHILE effortlessly pulling my Airstream. With ample power to spare pulling my 75th Bambi prototype, it's GREAT fun flying up mountain passes with throttle to spare.

The SSR is built on the same chassis as the Trailblazer SS which also has the LS2 V8...and a 6700lb towing capacity. The only limiting factors for towing with the SSR vs. the Trailblazer SS are the factory hitch design and the cooling system which were designed with the styling of the truck in mind. With a proper Class III/IV hitch and a Ron Davis radiator/Colvin dual cooling fan setup, the SSR can handle a moderate size/weight trailer with ease. It's only other concern is the wheelbase...but this is where common sense applies with ANY truck considered for a tow vehicle.

Commenting on things you don't know about just adds to confusion and erroneous information on this site.
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:27 PM   #21
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Old 04-08-2012, 07:31 AM   #22
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I didn't say it wouldn't tow. With a smallish carpeted bed, rather flexible frame with the top down, performance tires, etc....it's not a "truck". It is a car with a relatively high tow capacity. A little more than a Traverse for example...which is also not a "truck".

BTW, I would not consider a Trailblazer SS a "truck" either. Yes the frames are there on both, but when you mod for performance, you lose work truck capability....BUT gain GO, GO!!!!!

Believe me, I am not bad mouthing the SSR at all. Great vehicle,
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Old 04-08-2012, 05:12 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
I didn't say it wouldn't tow. With a smallish carpeted bed, rather flexible frame with the top down, performance tires, etc....it's not a "truck". It is a car with a relatively high tow capacity. A little more than a Traverse for example...which is also not a "truck".

BTW, I would not consider a Trailblazer SS a "truck" either. Yes the frames are there on both, but when you mod for performance, you lose work truck capability....BUT gain GO, GO!!!!!

Believe me, I am not bad mouthing the SSR at all. Great vehicle,

Once again, you are wrong.

The Traverse is a unibody car-based crossover. A Traverse has NO FRAME whatsoever. It has absolutely nothing to do in any way with an SSR or a Trailblazer. They are trucks. They have full boxed frames...they are not flexible foamed pseudo-unibody support rails. They are frames. As in a truck frame. Your comparison is akin to comparing a Corvette to an SSR...which is common amongst the uninformed.

The Ford Lightning and Dodge SRT-10 are also trucks.

Just because the Trailblazer SS is a "performance" version of the regular Trailblazer doesn't make the SS version LESS of a truck. As a matter of fact, the Trailblazer SS is the highest tow rated version of the Trailblazer based on the available power and cooling refinements made for that vehicle. If someone wanted to purchase a Trailblazer brand new as a tow vehicle, the SS is the model verified by the factory with the greatest towing capacity. More performance=more ability=greater towing capacity=more truck.

Also, the large diameter rims and very stiff sidewalls are GREAT for towing...not nearly as much flex as your standard truck tire. As long as you are within the weight limits for a given tire and know how to use a tire pressure gauge, stiff sidewalls and less rolling resistance along with better grip and stopping power are ALL positives...not negatives.

More performance and better towing go hand in hand. Why would you want LESS performance for towing? Because that makes someone uninformed think "it must be more of a truck since it has less GO-GO"?!?? Ridiculous.

Just because a truck is "modded" for performance doesn't mean the "truckiness" goes away. By the way, the SSR isn't "modded" for performance. That's just the nature of the truck...it is what it is. It's not "hopped up" or modified...although it certainly can be for even MORE performance, if you wish. But with what I tow, I've already got more than I need to fly up any mountain pass safely and at ANY speed I desire...NOT what my tow vehicle is limited to. That way, I can enjoy the top-down surroundings with a smile on my face rather than watch my water and tranny temps constantly as I limp up a hill in 2nd gear at 30mph. I've already been there in a less able tow vehicle...and it wasn't fun. Isn't camping supposed to be FUN?

Increased performance = worse towing???!?? Right.

It's a truck. A unique, hot-rod styled, fast, powerful, and FUN performance truck, but it's STILL a truck.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:24 PM   #24
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Ggoat:

I stand by all my statements. Although the Frame is from an SUV with a respectable tow rating, that does NOT translate to your SSR. Virtually everything else is different, including a mixture of pieces and parts from various other vehicles in the GM portfolio. Your suspension is vastly different that a PU or a Trailblazer for that matter.



I would never compare it to a Corvette...MAYBE a GTO. And although you obviously disagree, modern unibody construction is more rigid and taught that body on frame vehicles. Just look at the Hz figures on MANY high end SUVs and cars.

This from the 2006 SSR Owner Manual:


Weight of the Trailer


How heavy can a trailer safely be?
It depends on how you plan to use your rig. For example, speed, altitude, road grades, outside temperature and how much your vehicle is used to pull a trailer are all important. It can also depend on any special equipment that you have on your vehicle, and the amount of tongue weight the vehicle can carry. See “Weight of the Trailer Tongue” later in this section for more information.
Maximum trailer weight is calculated assuming only the driver is in the tow vehicle and it has all the required trailering equipment. The weight of additional optional equipment, passengers and cargo in the tow vehicle must be subtracted from the maximum trailer weight.
Your vehicle is a two-wheel drive vehicle. The axle ratio is 3.73, the maximum trailer weight is 2,500 lbs (1 134 kg) and the Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) is 8,000 lbs (3 629 kg).
The Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) is the total allowable weight of the completely loaded vehicle and trailer including any passengers, cargo, equipment and conversions. The GCWR for your vehicle should not be exceeded.
You can ask your dealer for trailering information or advice, or you can write us at the address listed in your Warranty and Owner Assistance Information Booklet.




A 2500 pound trailer rating and an 8000 GCWR is NOT a vehicle built to be a truck.
This also from the same manual:




Loading the Vehicle
It is very important to know how much weight your vehicle can carry. This weight is called the vehicle capacity weight and includes the weight of all occupants, cargo, and all nonfactory-installed options. Two labels on your vehicle show how much weight it may properly carry; the Tire and Loading Information label and the Certification/Tire label.

Caution: Do not load the vehicle any heavier than the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR), or either the maximum front or rear Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR). If you do, parts on the vehicle can break, and it can change the way the vehicle handles. These could cause you to lose control and crash. Also, overloading can shorten the life of the vehicle.

Tire and Loading Information Label

Label Example







A vehicle specific Tire and Loading Information label is attached to the B-pillar of your vehicle. With the driver's door open, you will find the label attached to the door frame, below the door latch. This label shows the number of occupant seating positions (A), and the maximum vehicle capacity weight (B) in kilograms and pounds.
The Tire and Loading Information label also shows the size of the original equipment tires (C) and the recommended cold tire inflation pressures (D). For more information on tires and inflation see Tires and Inflation - Tire Pressure .
There is also important loading information on the vehicle Certification/Tire label. It tells you the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) and the Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR) for the front and rear axle. See “Certification/Tire Label” later in this section.
Steps for Determining Correct Load Limit

1. Locate the statement “The combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed XXX kg or XXX lbs” on your vehicle's placard.
2. Determine the combined weight of the driver and passengers that will be riding in your vehicle.
3. Subtract the combined weight of the driver and passengers from XXX kg or XXX lbs.
4. The resulting figure equals the available amount of cargo and luggage load capacity. For example, if the “XXX” amount equals 1400 lbs and there will be five 150 lb passengers in your vehicle, the amount of available cargo and luggage load capacity is 650 lbs (1400 − 750 (5 x 150) = 650 lbs).
5. Determine the combined weight of luggage and cargo being loaded on the vehicle. That weight may not safely exceed the available cargo and luggage load capacity calculated in Step 4.
6. If your vehicle will be towing a trailer, the load from your trailer will be transferred to your vehicle. Consult this manual to determine how this reduces the available cargo and luggage load capacity of your vehicle.
If your vehicle can tow a trailer, see Towing a Trailer for important information on towing a trailer, towing safety rules, and trailering tips.
Example 1









Item


Description


Total


A


Vehicle Capacity Weight for Example 1 =


400 lbs (181 kg)


B


Subtract Occupant Weight @ 150 lbs (68 kg) x 1 =


150 lbs (68 kg)


C


Available Occupant and Cargo Weight =


250 lbs (113 kg)

Example 2









Item


Description


Total


A


Vehicle Capacity Weight for Example 2 =


400 lbs (181 kg)


B


Subtract Occupant Weight @ 150 lbs (68 kg) x 2 =


300 lbs (136 kg)


C


Available Cargo Weight =


100 lbs (45 kg)

Example 3









Item


Description


Total


A


Vehicle Capacity Weight for Example 3 =


400 lbs (181 kg)


B


Subtract Occupant Weight @ 200 lbs (91 kg) x 2 =


400 lbs (181 kg)


C


Available Cargo Weight =


0 lbs (0 kg)

Refer to your vehicle's tire and loading information label for specific information about your vehicle's capacity weight and seating positions. The combined weight of the driver, passengers, and cargo should never exceed your vehicle's capacity weight.
Certification/Tire Label





A vehicle specific Certification/Tire label is attached to the rear edge of the driver's door. The label shows the size of your original tires and the inflation pressures needed to obtain the gross weight capacity of your vehicle. This is called the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). The GVWR includes the weight of the vehicle, all occupants, fuel, cargo, and trailer tongue weight, if pulling a trailer.
The Certification/Tire label also tells you the maximum weights for the front and rear axles, called Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR). To find out the actual loads on your rear axle, you need to go to a weigh station and weigh your vehicle. Your dealer can help you with this. Be sure to spread out your load equally on both sides of the centerline.
Never exceed the GVWR for your vehicle, or the GAWR for the front and rear axle.
And, if you do have a heavy load, you should spread it out, and load toward the front of the pickup box.

Caution: In the case of a sudden stop or collision, things carried in the bed of your truck could shift forward and come into the passenger area, injuring you and others. If you put things in the bed of your truck, you should make sure they are properly secured.


Caution: Do not load the vehicle any heavier than the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR), or either the maximum front or rear Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR). If you do, parts on the vehicle can break, and it can change the way the vehicle handles. These could cause you to lose control and crash. Also, overloading can shorten the life of the vehicle.

Using heavier suspension components to get added durability might not change your weight ratings. Ask your dealer to help you load your vehicle the correct way.
Notice: Overloading the vehicle may cause damage. Repairs would not be covered by the vehicle warranty. Do not overload the vehicle. If you put things inside your vehicle — like suitcases, tools, packages or anything else — they will go as fast as the vehicle goes. If you have to stop or turn quickly, or if there is a crash, they will keep going.

Caution: Things you put inside your vehicle can strike and injure people in a sudden stop or turn, or in a crash.
Put things in the rear area of your vehicle. Try to spread the weight evenly.
Never stack heavier things, like suitcases, above the tops of the seats inside the vehicle or in the cargo area when the convertible top is lowered.
If you carry tall objects in the cargo area, secure them properly and have the convertible top fastened in the raised position.
Do not leave an unsecured child restraint in your vehicle.
When you carry something inside the vehicle, secure it whenever you can.

Add-On Equipment

When you carry removable items, you may need to put a limit on how many people you carry inside your vehicle. Be sure to weigh your vehicle before you buy and install the new equipment. Notice: Overloading the vehicle may cause damage. Repairs would not be covered by the vehicle warranty. Do not overload the vehicle. Remember not to exceed the Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR) of the rear axle. See Loading the Vehicle .


Could you please provide the figures from your door jamb label?


This vehicle was a specialty vehicle as designed. It is a factory built street rod, made to be reminiscent, IIRC, a 49 PU. That doesn't make it a PU TRUCK. It has less than 1/2 of the tow rating of a midsized Colorado (properly equipped) and a little more than 1/3 of a properly equipped Silverado, and about 25% of the rating of a max tow package equipped Silverado 1500.


P.S. - It might behoove you to check the profile of the person you are addressing prior to calling them uninformed...and worse.
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Old 04-08-2012, 09:11 PM   #25
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Yeah, m, them danged numbers.
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Old 04-08-2012, 09:24 PM   #26
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Fine, have fun!
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Old 04-08-2012, 09:37 PM   #27
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Where's Crawford Gene to translate this boilerplate? I never knew that if you stop quick that the unsecured items in the bed of the truck may slide forward.

Is this a great teaching moment or what.
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Old 04-08-2012, 10:57 PM   #28
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As I stated in my original posting, the SSR's towing capacity-as delivered from the factory-is limited, intentionally, by the use of a proprietary hitch system and drawbar by Oris which disappears completely when removed; it is actually rated at 350lbs tongue weight/3500lbs towing weight. When removed, the receiver is completely invisible. This was done for the consideration of style, as most do not tow heavy loads with the SSR. However, with the addition of a Trailblazer Class III/IV hitch (which is a direct bolt-on), this hurdle is eliminated. Or, you can do as I did and have a custom welded receiver installed which also allows the use of the original Oris hitch.

The second, and much more critical, aspect of the SSR's towing limitation is the factory cooling system, which is limited by GM's cost saving with a single radiator fan and a smaller but efficient radiator straight out of a Corvette. Given it's size, it does an amazing job. However, as I stated in my original post, cooling issues are easily cured (in my case) with a Ron Davis dual row racing radiator (or others) and a dual Spal fan setup (or other designs from SimpleEngineering.com), all engineered FOR the SSR...some parts specifically engineered by those who actually designed the vehicle at GM. I stated in my original posting that these two factors alone are the difference between the Trailblazer's and SSR's towing ratings...and this information is directly FROM the GM engineer (on the SSR forum) who literally designed the cooling system for the SSR.

Every time I tow my Airstream an amazing amount of people ask about the combo. And, a LOT of people are under the misconception that the SSR is not a truck. I don't want improper erroneous misleading information out there regarding towing with the SSR in case someone (many whom I've steered to this site) wants to use an SSR to tow with. As such, it must be pointed out that the following is completely wrong and misinformed regarding the SSR being accused of not being a truck: Virtually everything else is different, including a mixture of pieces and parts from various other vehicles in the GM portfolio. Your suspension is vastly different that a PU or a Trailblazer for that matter.

Nothing could be further from the truth. The suspension and frame of the SSR and Trailblazer are for the most part nearly identical. ANY GM vehicle is a mixture of other vehicles in the GM portfolio. The SSR suspension is not "vastly different from a PU or a Trailblazer." The SSR weighs nearly 5000lbs, and it actually rides BETTER towing the Bambi. Any accusations of the SSR having a "vastly different" suspension or frame from the Trailblazer should respectfully be made with proof and examples, not pure spectulation and conjecture as this is completely not helpful to someone looking for real information regarding towing with the SSR.

The SSR has the same coil spring rear suspension as the Trailblazer SS, with Bilstein shocks all around and the same Eaton 9.5" 14 bolt rear end from the Hummer H2. Air ride suspension components from both the Trailblazer (if so equipped) and SSR are interchangeable as well. I've spent countless hours researching these vehicles, and I've actually worked on them and set them up for towing and better cooling. I know what is and isn't interchangeable. I also know that the chassis/platform is not a car in any way, shape, or form. Just because the body may look "car-like" to some doesn't make it a car.

The only thing an SSR has in common with a GTO (of all things) is the LS2 V8. The GTO was a unibodied Australian Holden built on a completely different platform. The SSR and GTO are about as much alike as a Yugo and an F-450.

I get a ton of questions in person as well as online (and on the SSR forum) from people wanting to tow with an SSR. I'm glad to share any info that I have, but I will NOT boast personal opinion as fact. I just want someone who may want truthful factual information regarding the SSR and it's towing aspects to be able to find it without reading an opinion piece about an SSR being a car because it is performance oriented or that it's not a truck because it has a carpeted covered bed.

When I steer someone to the site who wants to tow with an SSR I want them to be able to find real world researched information; most of it obtained from real-world use...not speculation and conjecture from those that don't think the SSR is a truck because it doesn't look "trucky" enough and has too much "go go," whatever that is.

The SSR is a fully capable truck for towing a reasonably sized Airstream when (as I originally stated) the hitch and cooling aspects are addressed. Anyone wanting more information from my years of experience towing Airstreams (and other trailers) with an SSR can contact me and I will help all I can.
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