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Old 05-04-2008, 11:21 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Fyrzowt
Oh no, now we have to add Toyota to the Ford/Dodge/Chevy fight
well, toyota is on the nascar circuit now .

i grew up in new hampshire and i'm sure it's still just a ford/chevy fight there with an occasional dodge, toyota sprinkled in
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Old 05-04-2008, 11:28 AM   #16
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Our first tow vehicle was a first generation Tundra (late 03) with a tow package. It was a white knuckle experience even with a 22' CCD. Other then towing it was an awesome vehicle. I took it beach camping, 4-wheeling down in Baja and it was great. But it made trailering a bummer. I spent a month or more compiling data on the 3 US truck brands (diesel offerings) and the Chevy 2500 HD Duramax/Allison combination won out. I have never regretted that decision. I get fantastic milage towing and not towing (25 MPG + last week). None of my Toyota trucks ever did as well. But if Toyota drops a diesel in a Tundra or other model I would give it a real close look. And I will never go gas after living with the diesel torque hammer experience.
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Old 05-04-2008, 02:36 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Jimandrod
The bed bounce video was a real eye opener! Another one to check out is YouTube - New 2009 Ford F-150: Most Capable Light-Duty Truck Ever
I see Ford used the biggest, heaviest Airstream they could find for that video, too...34' classic slideout...
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Old 05-04-2008, 05:10 PM   #18
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The Toys seem to rule in their segment when you get right down to it.

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Old 05-04-2008, 06:54 PM   #19
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Baseball-Apple pie-Chevrolet!

OK-time to come clean (we all have some bones in our closet!), I owned (leased) a Toyota truck a few years back. I know this will shock some of you as I am known to be a GM man to the core… Here’s what happened; totaled my Blazer on a ski trip in Maine, spun off the road on some ice, over a snow bank, bounced off some trees. Luckily no injuries. Drove home next day, 350 miles, truck drove straight as an arrow, 70 mph. The only glass left was the windshield, had the heat goin’ full blast. Drove right to a body shop, shop foreman takes one look, says “it’s totaled”. I said “no-way, I juts drove 350 miles, it was fine” (I really liked this truck and figured it would be OK after some new glass and a couple of grand worth of body work.) Next day the insurance adjuster calls “it’s totaled”. Well, I guess the body man was right; the chassis was bent- no easy fix. Any way, I need a truck right away; the Chevy dealer had moved out of town, the only dealer left in town is Toyota. So I get set up to lease a yota 4x4 for 3 years (it was the only truck I ever leased, I usually purchase. As this was unexpected, I had to get a vehicle that week; it was the easy thing to do at the time). Long story short (if it’s not too late) I disliked that truck so much, I turned it in less than 2 years and paid a significant penalty to break the lease. It ran fine (I would hope so-any new vehicle should run well!) but it was everything I feared of a Japanese vehicle, under powered (this was no Chevy small block!), poor ride quality, tinny feel. I hated it! And paid dearly to get out.
Went back to the General, and have stayed since. I have owned (not leased-never again!) 2 pick me ups, and 2 Suburban’s, since then, and have not spent a dime outside of oil, filters, tires, brakes, and wiper blades, maybe a light bulb or two on any of them. And we have put close to 150k on each of those.
Do I think the Japanese quality is smoke and mirrors? Well, no. I am sure they make fine vehicles (depends on how you define quality, really) but they do not meet my definition of quality. I like dependability, capability, and ride quality. The Japanese vehicles, still do not meet my definition of quality. There is no Japanese truck that can haul what a ¾ ton does, and I still don’t like the ride quality of foreign vehicles. Dependable? I am sure they are, but no more so than any GM I have ever owned. My Wife drove a Z car back in the 90’s, had it for 10 years, put almost 130k on it. What a nice car, most dependable vehicle we ever owned. Fairly quick, had nice seats, never gave a lick of trouble. Sold it for our first Suburban when the little guy came along ( 2 doors are NOT family cars).The two trucks I have owned since then, my previous GMC ½ ton original small block, is still probably my all-time favorite vehicle. What a nice truck. The Suburban’s are awesome all-around family vehicles; towing, ski trips, people haulers…My current ¾ ton D/A is just unbelievable to tow with. I have towed a lot of things, a lot of miles, nothing I ever drove does it like this D/A.
Since I sold my business almost 2 years ago, we have thinned the fleet, from 5 or 6 vehicles at any time, to 2-3 now. Don’t have a Suburban any more (still miss it) the crew cab D/A is more flexible all around. The Wife drives a real nice Buick (super charged V6) 30 mpg on the highway, can seat 6 people for real.
There you go-I am “outed”. I have been to the dark side, but was saved, and have returned to the homeland! Japanese truck? Not for this guy…

Bill
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Old 05-05-2008, 11:27 AM   #20
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When I bought my latest truck, an '07 GMC 1/2 ton with the towing package, I owned a Dodge, and did not want another one. Don't get me wrong, I had no problems with the Dodge...I just didn't like the fact that it used more gas than my brother's GMC, and you could not select 3rd gear from OD on the shift lever...the computer did it all. I think this is not good for a tow vehicle.

Anyway, with that said, I looked at and drove the Ford F150 5.4 liter, and the GMC 5.3 liter. In my opinion, the GMC ran much better, rode better, and the seat was much more comfortable (I have a very bad back).

To me, the new Toyota is just plain ugly. I know, that's personal, but the way I feel. Also, it's Japanese, and one of the few things left that I can purchase in this country is an American automobile to support America. I know, the Toyota is built here, and when I say "here", it is virtually built in my back yard, but the fact remains, the net profit of the sale of the Toyotas goes to Japan. Just my little "thing".
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Old 05-05-2008, 12:16 PM   #21
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I have a Toyota Tundra of my own and just bought my husband a new Ford-F150, trading in my new (and I mean only a few thousand miles on it new) Chrysler Town and Country for the Ford. My husband is a Ford man and he didn't really want to take my Tundra to his jobsites. I like the Tundra and it has only been in the shop once for a recall item. I like the Ford very much because it has lots more room both in the seats and the cab. So far no service issues with the Ford. I did pull my 24ft Argosy back from the lake with it and I personally think the stiffer suspension was a little harder on the Argosy than the Toyota ever was. I could tow with the Tundra with a coke can on the shelf and it would still be there when I got home. Not so with the Ford. However, that said, the Ford tows the 31ft Sovereign like it wasn't there and left the coffee maker still on the kitchen shelf when we got down to the lake. Now about the Chrysler van. It is my 4th Chrysler product and each one had major mechanical issues that I hoped had been worked out with each new one I bought. Went thru 5 transmissions on the 1990, bad transmission on the 1996, not a bad 2000 model, but when the new 2007 van had a complete transmission rebuild with 2K on it, and the service people did not bolt it back into place nor apologise for the oversight, I knew it was time for a change. Chrysler also told me they would not replace this Mexican transmission with a new one if it went out again, they could only give me a rebuilt one from Mexico as that was their policy. I think that attitude is what drives Americans to look for a better car or truck no matter where it's built. I've bought and bought American, but these cars are very expensive and if the big 3 want my money, they need to give me my money's worth. The Ford was worth the money and it's our 4th Ford. The Tundra has 77K on it and I'm pleased with the quality. Here is proof that American can build a truck that last.
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Old 05-05-2008, 12:54 PM   #22
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BillTex say it ain't so, a Toyota?????? Just kidding. Don't you feel much better getting that off of your chest?? Hey Bill speaking of Toyo quality have you seen the 100's of car carriers going down 95 filled with Toyos with rotted frames?? Big Toyo buy back that alot of people won't ever hear about cause they hushed it up pretty well and wrote some checks.
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Old 05-05-2008, 02:38 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by RIstream'n
BillTex say it ain't so, a Toyota?????? Just kidding. Don't you feel much better getting that off of your chest?? Hey Bill speaking of Toyo quality have you seen the 100's of car carriers going down 95 filled with Toyos with rotted frames?? Big Toyo buy back that alot of people won't ever hear about cause they hushed it up pretty well and wrote some checks.
Yeah, it was somewhat of an impulse. I didn’t know how long the insurance settlement would take, I needed a truck, price was right, it was right there in town…
Any way, lesson learned.
My Wife disliked that truck so much, she pretty much refused to ride in it (it was rather uncomfortable and cramped by US standards. And we are not “super sized” people!). I can remember 2 distinct “incidents”; a tent camping trip to Niagara Falls/Upstate NY and cramming everything in her “Z” car (actually, that trip went fine. We had a good time, even though the car was packed to the gills), and a ski trip to Vermont in a whiteout, and getting a State Police escort the last few miles to the ski lodge as roads were so bad (and our 4x4 truck was home in the garage!) that the police did not think we would make it. I remember the Officer telling me “just gun it real fast and you’ll make it up the last hill”. He of course had chains on his Crown Vic. I remember cursing (under my breath) that this was nuts, we have a brand new 4x4, and here we are in a blizzard with a sports car, because Lorinda refused to ride in the truck!

To each his own, but to answer the original post; Japanese is not for me (Clearly, not for Lorinda either…).

Bill
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Old 05-05-2008, 02:54 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by RIstream'n
BillTex say it ain't so, a Toyota?????? Just kidding. Don't you feel much better getting that off of your chest?? Hey Bill speaking of Toyo quality have you seen the 100's of car carriers going down 95 filled with Toyos with rotted frames?? Big Toyo buy back that alot of people won't ever hear about cause they hushed it up pretty well and wrote some checks.
I am curious as to the models and frame issues you speak of.
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Old 05-05-2008, 03:45 PM   #25
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there is such a thing as "too stiff", too. So, I'm not sure exactly what it is they're tryin' to sell, here. I once saw a documentary about the building of Mack trucks, and they kinda did the opposite of what they're doing in the ford videos...demonstrating how "flexible" the frame was on this huge beast of a truck...because if it wasn't, something would snap. forces get "absorbed" rather than transmitted to other parts.
Not to "dis" Ford. I've had good luck with my last couple of Ford cars.

as far as "looking at new vehicles" goes...they're all ~fabulous~, when they're new. Thats why car salesmen are so eager to get you to test drive them. Whatever it is, its WAY better than that smelly old thing you're driving now. .
Talk to me in 5 years. once the shine wears off, and stuff starts breaking...thats the real measure, imo.
I've got a ford car, and a dodge truck, both the same model year...same mileage. The difference in repair costs is absolutely staggering!
CHUCK,... I am going to DISAGREE with you here to the utmost. THERE IS NO,,, I REPEAT NO suck thing as a too stiff frame. EVERY manufacturer does what that can to make stiff frames. The science of a good handly car...truck,,,or RACE CAR lies in the fact...yes FACT that NOTHING should flex but the suspension. I have had this discussion with RACE care manfacturers and Peterbuilt truck. THEY DO NOT WANT FLEX IN A FRAME...PERIOD. The only one who wants flex is off roaders...serious jeepers. If the frame flexes you have lost some control of how the vehicle handles. If you research this you will find this to be true. Its not my opionion its what manufacturers and race car builders have told me. And dont' say a race car isnt a good comparision....its an excellent comparision. Even in the off road truck world of racing they beef up the stock frames so they would not flex. To have total controll only suspension parts need to flex. The ladder frames on trucks is a very hard thing to get perfectly figid because the manufacturers are limited to the triangulation they can use. That is why Ford started putting large frame rales under their trucks. Have you noticed that Fords weight about 400 to 600 lbs more than comparable equiped GM, Dodge or Toyota...its all in the frame and axels,,, and brakes.
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Old 05-05-2008, 04:36 PM   #26
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Ok, ok! I'll take your word for it!

I claim no expertise in this area; I'm just sayin', it kind of smells like a marketing "gimick", thats all.
lots of "big strong structures" have alot of flex in them...more than people realize...on purpose.
Its talked about here, too. axles too stiff...spring bars...3/4 ton rear-ends, pounding the crap out of dainty airstream frames....

But those are suspension parts; not "frames".

again, though, explain that Mack truck documentary, where they demostrated the frames flexibility. The Mack employee giving the demo seemed quite proud of it.

interesting about the ford being the heaviest. When I bought my truck, the Dodge was the heaviest of its ilk (1/2 ton, extended cab/4x4 trucks). with the worst gas mileage, to match. Things change...
Hey, at least the Ford "appears" to have something to justify its inflated tow ratings. Most of the manufacturers just seem to slap bigger ratings on their trucks each year, to out-do the competition, without actually changing anything. at least...anything we can "see". Until some governing body creates some definative measures, they can say whatever they want.
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Old 05-05-2008, 05:02 PM   #27
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I am curious as to the models and frame issues you speak of.
Not sure on the exact year range but it's on Tacomas.
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Old 05-05-2008, 05:08 PM   #28
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The Tacoma's in question are 1995-2000 models. The problem seems to be lack of corrosion protection as the failure occur on trucks exposed to road salt. Toyota has extended the warranty on the frame to 15 years and has sent out letters to the owners on record. If Toyota finds the frame to have failed they will buy the truck at 150% of the high blue book value plus give you an additional $1,000 if you buy a new Tacoma.

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