Payload issue resolved: Swapped Ram 1500 for 2500

[jeffmc306]

Originally Posted by Hans627

I finally took delivery of my new TV. It is a 2500 with Cummins ordered exactly as I wished it to be (took 3 months to get it).

I had a 2018 2500 with the Cummins and two things I've already noticed about this TV as compared to my old one is that it is considerably quieter and rides a bit better. The interior of this truck is as nice as I've seen in any luxury vehicle.

The added safety features, plus a 10 way adjustable passenger seat, were the primary drivers (no pun intended) for making the switch.

Congratulations! That’s a great looking truck - love the color! What trim level is it? Longhorn or Limited? I’m jealous of the power deployed running boards and the headlights. That’s one beautiful front end... What did your payload end up being?

[Hans627]

Originally Posted by jeffmc306

Congratulations! That’s a great looking truck - love the color! What trim level is it? Longhorn or Limited? I’m jealous of the power deployed running boards and the headlights. That’s one beautiful front end... What did your payload end up being?

Thank you and I thought you would love the color, since yours is the same!

It is a Limited.

The power running boards take a bit of getting used to as they are lower than those on my 2018. But the step is much easier.

The interior is just stunning.The attention to detail is extraordinary. The 12" screen has so many features. Love the ability to customize it with drag and drop.

The payload as per door jamb sticker is 1860#. I didn't order it with a sunroof (seldom used) but did order the rear air suspension which gives about an inch of lift. But otherwise it has just about every option. I took it to the CAT scale on the drive home and it weights in at 8160#, front axle at 4960# and rear at 3200#. Almost exactly what my 2018 weighed.

I'm happy you got your payload issue resolved with FCA and would imagine you are enjoying your new TV. I know we are enjoying ours!

Bob

[DewTheDew]

Originally Posted by poodlegals

We are debating heavily between the ram 1500 and the 2500. With the 25 ft FB it looks like we are marginal with the 1500. Is anyone familiar with Changingears.com and their weight calculation app? It has been revealing to us but we are wondering if it is somewhat weighted towards heavier TV. Would love to see some thoughts on this. Thanks!

I am not familiar with them, but we have an F150 (2017 maxed out for towing but also loaded so less payload) pulling our 27' FB. It works fine but you have to be careful with payload. Just two of us and shorter trips for now. Will get a 3/4 or 1 ton when we start taking longer trips (retire!) and hauling stuff. I thought the Ford was the only one of the Big Three that would work with a 1/2 ton and our trailer because it has a lot of aluminum and therefore the truck itself is lighter. I forget but our payload is about 1300# or so. They all two a lot of weight, but it is the payload that becomes limiting. Have fun! That red Ram just above this post looks pretty tempting..... :-)

[DewTheDew]

Originally Posted by Hans627

I finally took delivery of my new TV. It is a 2500 with Cummins ordered exactly as I wished it to be (took 3 months to get it).

I had a 2018 2500 with the Cummins and two things I've already noticed about this TV as compared to my old one is that it is considerably quieter and rides a bit better. The interior of this truck is as nice as I've seen in any luxury vehicle.

The added safety features, plus a 10 way adjustable passenger seat, were the primary drivers (no pun intended) for making the switch.

We live not too far away so I will keep my eye out for that beauty as we camp around the mid-Atlantic!

[twbucksr]

My 1/2 ton GMC Sierra 6.2L w/ max tow package has the same payload as your 3/4 ton Dodge.

There are plenty of posters on this forum that make the blanket statement that upgrading to a 3/4 ton TV is the answer. You have proven that is not the case.

[Hans627]

Originally Posted by twbucksr

My 1/2 ton GMC Sierra 6.2L w/ max tow package has the same payload as your 3/4 ton Dodge.

There are plenty of posters on this forum that make the blanket statement that upgrading to a 3/4 ton TV is the answer. You have proven that is not the case.

You are absolutely correct! Your 1/2 GMC Sierra 6.2 with max tow is an excellent truck. I seriously considered that truck. Really great TV. There are many 1/2 ton TV's that will do, and are doing, a wonderful job.

But payload was not the primary reason for going with RAM 2500. It was the pleasure of towing with a 3/4 ton diesel. I looked at, and drove, all the 3/4 ton diesels and liked the the Ram the most.

I had a 1/2 ton TV and it did the job. IMHO the 3/4 ton diesel does the job better.

Isn't it great to have choices!

[GOUSC]

Originally Posted by Hans627

I finally took delivery of my new TV. It is a 2500 with Cummins ordered exactly as I wished it to be (took 3 months to get it).

I had a 2018 2500 with the Cummins and two things I've already noticed about this TV as compared to my old one is that it is considerably quieter and rides a bit better. The interior of this truck is as nice as I've seen in any luxury vehicle.

The added safety features, plus a 10 way adjustable passenger seat, were the primary drivers (no pun intended) for making the switch.

Congratulations Bob! As a Univesity of South Carolina fan (Garnet and Black) I love the color! For some reason, I thought you had that truck already. Glad it finally came in. you should really enjoy it!

[Hans627]

Originally Posted by GOUSC

Congratulations Bob! As a Univesity of South Carolina fan (Garnet and Black) I love the color! For some reason, I thought you had that truck already. Glad it finally came in. you should really enjoy it!

Thanks Jim!

[sctinman44]

Originally Posted by poodlegals

gas or diesel? We have been looking at the ram 1500 quite seriously also. Have 25 ft front bed safari.

I have a 2015 RAM ECODIESEL 1500 Quad cab 6'4" bed 3:92 rear axle ratio, 2wd. .. GVWR 6950, Payload 1610, tare wgt. 5340, max. trailer 8950 . Last trip to Salem, OR trailer weighed 8400 lbs with 1000 lbs tongue weight. That leaves 600 lbs for myself, DW and 🐕 and minimum misc. in truck bed. I'll typically load the trailer heavier instead of the truck being over weight This truck is also my daily driver. Towing mpg 15--16 , city 21 mpg, highway myself, DW and 🐕 on a trip we get 29--30 on cruise at 65 mph. I towed Colorado, WY, MT mountains no problem. Maintained 50 mph in mountains. I've got 68,000 miles on now with 40k of that towing. I'm a retired OTR truck driver with MILLIONS of safe driving miles. I'm always conscious of my vehicles weight and safety. If you're looking at Ram 1500 go for it. I'm waiting for 2020 Ecodiesel to come out. Lot of improvements, towing and payload increases. THIS MESSAGE IS INTENDED FOR POODLEGALS PRIMARILY. 👍

[crispyboy]

Originally Posted by Hans627

I took it to the CAT scale on the drive home and it weights in at 8160#, front axle at 4960# and rear at 3200#. Almost exactly what my 2018 weighed.

Wow! Your new truck is at least 900 lbs heavier than my 2009 Dodge 2500 CTD. That a lot of fluff on the Limited model - Yep I am green with envy.

[CWSWine]

Has anyone been checking gas mileage? Mine at 64 MPH on flat Kansas roads was getting around 20 mpg over the 500-mile strip. Now bump the speed up to 75 and throw in few hills I'm down to 13 to 15 mpg. Now put the Airstream behind the Ram and added in lots of hills and over a 250-mile trip I was getting between 8 and 9 mpg. Just a little disappointed with the milage.

[twbucksr]

I just traveled from SE Nebraska to Raleigh NC towing our 27FBQ FC with our 2018 GMC Sierra 1500 equipped with the 6.2L and Max Tow Package. My MPG varied from a high of 16.5 for a 400 mile stretch down to 13.5 for the last 400 mile average at the end. The 5% grades in WV killed the MPG as I used the cruise control set at 5 mph slower than my desired speed and engine braked down the 5% grades. These photos are of my dash while going down a 5% grade. My speed dropped just 3 mph going up the 5% grade.

[GOUSC]

Originally Posted by twbucksr

I just traveled from SE Nebraska to Raleigh NC towing our 27FBQ FC with our 2018 GMC Sierra 1500 equipped with the 6.2L and Max Tow Package. My MPG varied from a high of 16.5 for a 400 mile stretch down to 13.5 for the last 400 mile average at the end. The 5% grades in WV killed the MPG as I used the cruise control set at 5 mph slower than my desired speed and engine braked down the 5% grades. These photos are of my dash while going down a 5% grade. My speed dropped just 3 mph going up the 5% grade.
Attachment 349444Attachment 349445

I think those #'s are pretty impressive. They are consistent with my 2018 GMC 2500 HD diesel. I try to travel at 64 mph. I avg 14-15mpg with your same highs and lows towing my 27FB Globetrotter. Without towing I avg 20-21 in Interstate with a best of 26. All of these #'s are better than my 2009 Suburban with a 5.3L engine. Those GMC Sierra 1500 #'s are good to me.

[jeffmc306]

We’re on our first trip with our 2019 Ram 2500 6.4 gas and 27’ Globetrotter. The truck just turned 500 miles. Traveling west across Iowa at 65 MPH with Tow-Haul engaged the computer reported 11 MPG.

After a fuel stop I noticed the mileage trending up until it hit 13 MPG. I checked the tach and saw it was 1600 RPM’s vs. 2000 prior to the stop. Turns out I forgot to enable Tow-Haul again. The Eco light also went on frequently (4 cylinder mode).

I experimented with our ‘19 Ram 1500 but it wouldn’t go into Eco with the trailer. I think the 6.4 has just enough torque to keep it in 8th gear and occasionally engage the Eco mode.

Once we hit more hills I re-engaged Tow-Haul to avoid more frequent downshifts and the mileage went back to 11 MPG. So, if you’re on relatively flat terrain try experimenting without Tow-Haul.

[hstone]

Just finished a 6,125 mile trip from Atlanta to Doswell, VA to Ft. Benton, MT and back to Atlanta. Tow vehicle is a 2016 Ram 2500 Diesel Limited pulling a 2018 25' International Serenity with Goodyear Endurance tires. Mileage: 14.6 mpg. Fresh tank full and loaded with all our gear. Boondocked 75% of the time once we left Doswell, VA. Wonderful 3 1/2 week trip!

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by Hans627

Thank you and I thought you would love the color, since yours is the same!

It is a Limited.

The power running boards take a bit of getting used to as they are lower than those on my 2018. But the step is much easier.

The interior is just stunning.The attention to detail is extraordinary. The 12" screen has so many features. Love the ability to customize it with drag and drop.

The payload as per door jamb sticker is 1860#. I didn't order it with a sunroof (seldom used) but did order the rear air suspension which gives about an inch of lift. But otherwise it has just about every option. I took it to the CAT scale on the drive home and it weights in at 8160#, front axle at 4960# and rear at 3200#. Almost exactly what my 2018 weighed.

I'm happy you got your payload issue resolved with FCA and would imagine you are enjoying your new TV. I know we are enjoying ours!

Bob

You scaled it with fuel topped off. Driver only?

How about a snapshot of the door sticker showing axle limits. Payload is an arbitrary number. No genuine meaning, as there’s no cross-correspondence with other brands. Even other models.

But the tire/wheel/axle limits DO have meaning. The limits on commercial use.

And where’s the Three-Pass set of scale tickets? A 1,000-lb hitch weight is the province of cars and minivans. WD means barely 750-lbs remains on the TV. 380-lbs on either axle (ballpark).

Does the Drive Axle still weigh less than the Steer, even after WD applied? (Wrong TV)

The effect on payload is 400# more or less. Again, it’s not a valid measure of anything. Fifty years it simply meant, “don’t load the trunk of the car”. Gee, got a trailer back behind us to carry what used to go in suitcases.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by jeffmc306

Just want to say "thanks" to all the Airstream Forum members who shared their experience and advice with us!

Short version: Back in January I posted the payload of our 2019 Ram 1500 (factory stated 1840#) Gypsydad and others politely suggested I check the door sticker. The "real" number on the sticker was 1220# - big difference and not enough for our new 2019 27' Globetrotter's actual 1000# tongue wt.

I contacted the dealer who couldn't believe the difference. He used the Ram Configuration Tools to build the truck based on our trailer's requirements.

After 7 months of back and forth with the dealer & FCA they agreed to take the 1500 back and sold us a 2019 Ram 2500 with 2940# payload.

Again, I can't thank the Forum members enough for your advice and support. We'd still be stuck with a marginal payload otherwise.

We're leave for a two week trip to Colorado next month so have to get the 500 mile break-in done quick!

Worried over imaginary problems. Believing advice from a new guy with limited experience. Great.

Where are the Three-Pass scale tickets confirming WD hitch settings? For as in the above, “payload” isn’t relevant.

There are 3-parts to a safe tow rig. Of equal importance. The two vehicles and the hitch rigging. There is no “safe” workaround by buying a heavier, less stable TV. That’s jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

The only “weight” you need concern yourself with is the Drive Axle scale ticket value once hitched and WD adjusted. As a heavier truck with stiffer springs makes the job that much more difficult. The point of a decent hitch is to keep the Drive Axle tires from losing contact. But the greater spring capacity makes that more difficult UNLESS the bed is loaded to near maximum.

Isolate the bed load. What is it that can’t be carried in the TV passenger compartment or the TT itself that MUST have ventilation, etc? Or, due to bulk size. What does it weigh, AND is it necessary?

Clue: Necessary is clothing/footwear, propane, food & water. All go with the trailer.

Thus, verify. The payload game is armchair guessing. Not “real world” in the least. Find the real numbers. Get the CAT Scale app, and start fresh.

Three-Pass is:

1) Cross scale with max fuel, all passengers and loaded for camping. WD tensioned. Trailer with full propane & fresh water.

2). Second Pass: Loosen the WD bars. Fully slack. All other the same.

3). Third Pass: Park trailer. Cross scale same as above.

(The other baseline number is to scale the truck for a TARE weight on a separate occasion. Max fuel, driver only, and whatever gear is permanent to the day you sell it. On mine as example the truck is at 7,940-lbs; within 40# at all four corners. That’s TARE as it’s short of my 3-400# of work-related gear and of the TT being hitched).

A pic of the axle limit sticker, and of the rig on the scale with hitch tensioned (as it’s dead level).

The load limits are the Axle Limits. Versus TARE, how much weight is available on Steer, first, and Drive, second?

The short version to setting a WDH is that the Steer Axle value is the same in 1 & 3.

While it may be, if the Steer still weighs more than the Drive Axle once all else is loaded and adjusted, it’s a rig waiting for the right problem to appear. A teeter-totter. A MUCH better tow vehicle could have been chosen.

Hope you’re using a Hensley-patent hitch. It’s a requirement for pickups, generally, and the more so with a huge Drive Axle limit against actual load variance.

The best WD rough-in is Andrew Thomson’s RV Lifestyle article from his “Hitch Hints” column entitled, “How to Set Your Torsion Bars”. Last I looked it was still on the company website at CAN AM RV (London, ON).

It is VITAL that the rough-in include having the TT dead-level once hitched and WD set. This is the GO/NO GO point. That 90% plus around here fail. A carpenters level across the doorframe is the tool. Bubble center.

That one may need a hitch builder to help rectify this is no big deal. OEM hitches on pickups are already pretty bad, they do next to nothing to lower frame rail twist when WD is applied. (My 579 Peterbilt twists the rails). You MUST be able to travel with TT dead level.

Then (and ONLY then) one is looking to adjust the WDH so that the Steer Axle value is the same, BUT that the Drive Axle outweighs the Steer by around 10% or better.

I likely see more rigs than any of the rest of you. And what is 99 out of 100 times observable, at highway speeds from far across the travel lanes is a 3/4T pickemup yanking an AS along, hopping on its front axle. (Bye bye steering control and braking). It’s less stable, a lot more work to drive, and makes a mockery of a trailer already more stable at speed than any pickup.

Address the built-in problems you’ve chosen. They can be lessened, but mitigated is not an applicable term.


.

[jeffmc306]

Originally Posted by slowmover

Worried over imaginary problems. Believing advice from a new guy with limited experience. Great.

Where are the Three-Pass scale tickets confirming WD hitch settings? For as in the above, “payload” isn’t relevant.

There are 3-parts to a safe tow rig. Of equal importance. The two vehicles and the hitch rigging. There is no “safe” workaround by buying a heavier, less stable TV. That’s jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

Three-Pass is:

1) Cross scale with max fuel, all passengers and loaded for camping. WD tensioned. Trailer with full propane & fresh water.

2). Second Pass: Loosen the WD bars. Fully slack. All other the same.

3). Third Pass: Park trailer. Cross scale same as above.

.

Okay Slowmover, here’s the three pass scale tickets you asked for plus the door sticker. Just towed 1,400 miles to Colorado into the Rockies through several 11,000 ft passes without a hiccup using a BlueOx SwayPro and 1,500 lbs bars.

Couldn’t be happier with the Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi and 8 speed transmission. Maintained speed downgrades using engine braking automatically.

I may not be an over the road trucker but I’ve spent enough time in a White 4000 4x4 spit shift trans and towing boats and RV’s to know a good setup.

I’m pretty happy with this one.

Hey, some kid just rode his bike across your lawn...

[jeffmc306]

Slowmover, I couldn’t add a fifth photo so here’s the axle ratings for the Ram 2500.

[DewTheDew]

SlowMover gets pretty excited about set up and while he has a point, you would believe from his posts that people are crashing their Airstreams 100 times a day