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Old 10-18-2008, 10:33 AM   #29
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Wingeezer,

We tow a 25ft International with a 2500HD Duramax and have absolutely no shortage of power or problems with sway. Granted, a Classic adds a little more weight and length, but the drivetrain is the same whether it's a 3/4T or 1T.

From kicking tires at the dealers and other forums, if you're concerned about resale value on the 1 ton purchase, make sure you buy a dually. The used truck market for 1 tons has low demand for the single tire set. If you don't want the dually, then go 3/4T.

yakman
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Old 10-18-2008, 10:38 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
Our current TV was also a GM exec vehicle. 06 3/4 Burb 8.1 14.k, still under factory warranty til 3-2010. It's been a super TV. It has the GM Autoride,(without auto leveling) the best riding TV I've driven.
I can appreciate your conundrum, buy now or wait.

IMHO
I would get your Hensley operational, take a few trips, and decide if the investment would be worthwhile. After All, it will take a long time to break even on the money spent. And who knows what the future will bring, maybe there is a better offering down the road.
It took us four years to to jump into replacing our 95 454 Burb.

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Bob,

No doubt your suggestion to take things more slowly, set up the Hensley and get some experience with the 1/2T makes lots of sense.

My only concern is that our winter travels usually take us to South West and we usually encounter some some serious grades. I'd much sooner be sitting back enjoying the scenery rather than worrying about whether we will make the next grade - tranny/engine on the way up and brakes on the way down!

In order to maximize the chances of having a trouble free trip, I was quite prepared to pay the cost of a much more capable tow vehicle rather that screw up our trip with mechanical failures and worries. Getting too old for that!

Besides, our present TV is nearly seven years old and I felt it made some sense to move to a newer one with some warranty left.

It is only when I started to read comments on this (very helpful) forum about heavier trucks beating up the AS that I started to have some doubts about the direction I was going in, particularly when offered a good buy on a one ton rather than the 3/4 ton I had in mind to look for.

So now I am just trying to get a better perspective on whether I would be making a big mistake in buying a 1 ton rather than a 3/4 ton.

Of course I think that comments from folks that have been there/done that are the most helpful, and the impression I am getting so far is that most people with 1 ton trucks have not had issues.

Of course on the other hand, there are detractors that say that these folks may not yet realize the problems they have created with their trailers!


The decision doesn't get a whole lot easier!



Cheers ............... Brian.
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Old 10-18-2008, 10:49 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by yakman View Post
Wingeezer,

We tow a 25ft International with a 2500HD Duramax and have absolutely no shortage of power or problems with sway. Granted, a Classic adds a little more weight and length, but the drivetrain is the same whether it's a 3/4T or 1T.

From kicking tires at the dealers and other forums, if you're concerned about resale value on the 1 ton purchase, make sure you buy a dually. The used truck market for 1 tons has low demand for the single tire set. If you don't want the dually, then go 3/4T.

yakman
Yep, I realize the drive train is the same, the main issue I wanted to nail down is whether the one ton would be more likely to cause damage to the AS than the 3/4 ton I had been considering due to a heavier suspension.

I'm not that concerned about resale as I think that whatever we buy at this stage of our earthly journey (!) "should" see us to the end of our RV'ing days - five to ten years maybe?

The only reason we might get rid of is sooner would be either health reasons (none at present) or if for some reason we were to find it totally unsuitable

Cheers ......... Brian.
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Old 10-18-2008, 10:50 AM   #32
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Toyota is doing some good deals right now... I know it's not a 3/4 ton and isn't claiming it... CrafordGene tows with a Tundra and likes it... I borrowed our friends 2004 28' safari, towed it to Zion and back over some good tall mountain passes... With a Sequoia.. No problems.. I went up the hills at 65-70 mph "with some left" and going down I down shifted to a lower gear "in the manual mode" and hardly had to use the brakes.... the trailer was probably around 7000 lbs.

we had some strong winds 35-45 mph... And the trailer didn't sway or rock about.. Just a reese hitch set up..

Just goes to show you don't need a 3/4 ton....

Just mine two cents....

Would be nice if toyota made a diesel again...

Funny thing is, you go to Europe and they make all kinds of american suv's in diesels... But they are very hard to get here.... Go figure...
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Old 10-18-2008, 11:00 AM   #33
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Toyota is doing some good deals right now... I know it's not a 3/4 ton and isn't claiming it... CrafordGene tows with a Tundra and likes it... I borrowed our friends 2004 28' safari, towed it to Zion and back over some good tall mountain passes... With a Sequoia.. No problems.. I went up the hills at 65-70 mph "with some left" and going down I down shifted to a lower gear "in the manual mode" and hardly had to use the brakes.... the trailer was probably around 7000 lbs.

we had some strong winds 35-45 mph... And the trailer didn't sway or rock about.. Just a reese hitch set up..

Just goes to show you don't need a 3/4 ton....

Just mine two cents....

Would be nice if toyota made a diesel again...

Funny thing is, you go to Europe and they make all kinds of american suv's in diesels... But they are very hard to get here.... Go figure...
Hi Jason,

I did initially think about the Tundra. I have heard great things about them. I have a good friend who swears by Toyota vehicles. He has owned several Camries and has two at present.

What caused me to drop them from the short list however is that they just don't have the towing grunt of the big three if you compare them with the 3/4 ton trucks.

I had read many times the comment that ideally you shouldn't exceed 75-80% of your tow vehicles rated tow capacity, which is why I was opting for a 3/4 ton (or now maybe a 1 ton).

These vehicles all seem to have max tow ratings around 12,500# or so.

Mine 1/2T is rated at 9200# I believe and the Toyota is only a few # more. I figured if I am moving up in size I should give myself a good margin of capability.

So now my only issue is the suspension question and possible damage causing effect on the trailer between a 3/4 and one ton vehicle.

Cheers .......... Brian.
Cheers ......... Brian.
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Old 10-18-2008, 11:01 AM   #34
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Brian,

I really don't think you need to be too concerned about the one tonner beating up your trailer on all but the roughest backroads. (but that applies to just about any TV.) The MOST important thing is getting the proper hitch set-up. With the ability of the one ton to accept more tongue weight, the correct weight bar adjustment is paramount.
Are any of the vehicles single wheel? For a daily driver I would opt for the single.
As with anything AS, we seem too 'err on the side of, not so much what we need, but what we WANT.

Good luck, keep us posted
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Old 10-18-2008, 11:16 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Wingeezer View Post
Hi Jason,

I did initially think about the Tundra. I have heard great things about them. I have a good friend who swears by Toyota vehicles. He has owned several Camries and has two at present.

What caused me to drop them from the short list however is that they just don't have the towing grunt of the big three if you compare them with the 3/4 ton trucks.

I had read many times the comment that ideally you shouldn't exceed 75-80% of your tow vehicles rated tow capacity, which is why I was opting for a 3/4 ton (or now maybe a 1 ton).

These vehicles all seem to have max tow ratings around 12,500# or so.

Mine 1/2T is rated at 9200# I believe and the Toyota is only a few # more. I figured if I am moving up in size I should give myself a good margin of capability.

So now my only issue is the suspension question and possible damage causing effect on the trailer between a 3/4 and one ton vehicle.

Cheers .......... Brian.
Cheers ......... Brian.
Hi Bob,

Yes, they are all single wheel as far as I know. They just arrived at our local dealer yesterday and the salesman there who sold us our last two vehicles gave me a call as he knew I was actively looking for something bigger.

Of course since it is what he has to sell, he is trying to make the point that these one tons are even better for what I want to do.

I probably would have bought that logic until I came across comments here on teh forum that heavier suspension can cause very costly trailer damage - which of course is what I am now trying to nail down! (ie whether there is any significant difference between 3/4t and 1t in this respect)

I haven't been to see these vehicles yet, as I am down with a cold (that's why I've been on the 'puter so much this am!) but I hope to be back to the world of the living and to go look at them early next week.

I wouldn't be considering a dually, for just the reason you mention.

Likewise, I will be looking only at short box crew cab models.

My wife complains enough about parking with our present extended cab/short box, let alone a crew cab/long box!

Course I just tell her to park well away from others at the mall (Secretly my hope is that in doing so, she is more likely to avoid parking lot door dings!)


Cheers ....... Brian
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Old 10-18-2008, 11:21 AM   #36
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Wingeezer:

I have a 2005 Classic 30 non slide. Before purchasing the trailer I did an extensive tow vehicle analysis as I wanted to have a properly matched tow vehicle.

I came to the conclusion that a 1/2 ton was insufficient. The issue isn't pulling but stopping. You may already know this but I will go over my logic.

There are three weight ratings one must take into consideration in evaluating a tow vehicle.

1) The gross vehicle weight rating of the trailer. In my case the trailer has the heavier axles with a GVWR of 10,000 lbs.

2) The gross vehicle weight rating of the tow vehicle. I have a 2005 3/4 ton Dodge Cummins that has a GVWR of 9,500 lbs.

3) The gross combined weight rating which is the maximum weight the tow vehicle can handle for the trailer and tow vehicle. The GCWR can be less than the maximums of trailer and tow vehicle. This happens frequently with fifth wheels. In my case I can load the trailer to the maximum and tow vehicle to the maximum and still be below the gross combined weight rating because the Dodge has a GCWR of 20,000 lbs. In summary:

Airstream 30 gross vehicle weight rating 10,000 lbs
Dodge Ram 3/4 ton vehicle weight rating 9,500 lbs
Total 19,500 lbs

Dodge Ram 3/4 ton combined weight rating 20,000 lbs.

This if I don't exceed my maximum weight ratings for the Airstream or truck I will never exceed the combined weight rating.

When I was doing this analyis for a classic 25 I was concerned about using a 1/2 ton. I have a friend who has a international 25 and initially pulled it with a 1/2 ton. His conclusion was it was not adequate for his level of comfort for towing and purchased a 3/4 ton Ford.

You will get responses that it can be pulled by a 1/2 ton. You can do the math and determine what you are comfortable pulling with.

Pulling with a 3/4 ton diesel I hardly know that it is there. I just added a Hensley this year for additional safety. My eqalizer hitch worked fine.

In the Dodge trucks the only difference between a 3/4 ton and a 1 ton single rear wheel is in the stiffer springs on the one ton. All other component are the same. The brakes are the same 19" disc.

This is my first truck and is my daily driver. I have 87,000 miles and have owned it since February 2005. I am considering putting on a rear air suspension (Kelderman) to soften the ride but it is expensive. I love the truck.

I believe that you would be ok with a one ton but don't need it.

Good luck in whatever you decide.
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Old 10-18-2008, 11:29 AM   #37
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Brian,

As stated previously I tow with a one ton Silverado diesel with no problems. I choose the one ton at the time because the price difference on the 3/4 ton was negligible. Average fuel milage for the duramax is 20mpg when not towing and 15mpg when towing. Of course diesel fuel has been running a bit more per gallon so pretty much a wash on fuel cost/mile. I do use my truck for other chores and the additional capacity has come in handy. Since retirement the Silverado is also our primary vehicle and other than an occasional strange look when pulling into the Church parking lot it works well for us. One draw back is cab height, requires step bars to get into and out of the truck easily. Best of luck with your decision.
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Old 10-18-2008, 11:35 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebird View Post
Wingeezer:

I have a 2005 Classic 30 non slide. Before purchasing the trailer I did an extensive tow vehicle analysis as I wanted to have a properly matched tow vehicle.

I came to the conclusion that a 1/2 ton was insufficient. The issue isn't pulling but stopping. You may already know this but I will go over my logic.

There are three weight ratings one must take into consideration in evaluating a tow vehicle.

1) The gross vehicle weight rating of the trailer. In my case the trailer has the heavier axles with a GVWR of 10,000 lbs.

2) The gross vehicle weight rating of the tow vehicle. I have a 2005 3/4 ton Dodge Cummins that has a GVWR of 9,500 lbs.

3) The gross combined weight rating which is the maximum weight the tow vehicle can handle for the trailer and tow vehicle. The GCWR can be less than the maximums of trailer and tow vehicle. This happens frequently with fifth wheels. In my case I can load the trailer to the maximum and tow vehicle to the maximum and still be below the gross combined weight rating because the Dodge has a GCWR of 20,000 lbs. In summary:

Airstream 30 gross vehicle weight rating 10,000 lbs
Dodge Ram 3/4 ton vehicle weight rating 9,500 lbs
Total 19,500 lbs

Dodge Ram 3/4 ton combined weight rating 20,000 lbs.

This if I don't exceed my maximum weight ratings for the Airstream or truck I will never exceed the combined weight rating.

When I was doing this analyis for a classic 25 I was concerned about using a 1/2 ton. I have a friend who has a international 25 and initially pulled it with a 1/2 ton. His conclusion was it was not adequate for his level of comfort for towing and purchased a 3/4 ton Ford.

You will get responses that it can be pulled by a 1/2 ton. You can do the math and determine what you are comfortable pulling with.

Pulling with a 3/4 ton diesel I hardly know that it is there. I just added a Hensley this year for additional safety. My eqalizer hitch worked fine.

In the Dodge trucks the only difference between a 3/4 ton and a 1 ton single rear wheel is in the stiffer springs on the one ton. All other component are the same. The brakes are the same 19" disc.

This is my first truck and is my daily driver. I have 87,000 miles and have owned it since February 2005. I am considering putting on a rear air suspension (Kelderman) to soften the ride but it is expensive. I love the truck.

I believe that you would be ok with a one ton but don't need it.

Good luck in whatever you decide.
Thanks for the useful info.

My gut feeling is that even though it might just do the job, I don't want to stick with my 1/2 ton at this point.

I don't want to buy new, I usually buy vehicles a year or two old and am happy with that, My only dilemma at the moment is that I am presented with this collection of one ton trucks to select from but no 3/4 ton models, and which way to jump.

Since my only concern with the 1 ton is maybe increasing the chances of damaging the trailer I just bought (which sounds like the twin of yours) your comments about air suspension are interesting. Don't know much about that, what sort of $$ is involved?

Cheers ....... Brian.
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Old 10-18-2008, 11:56 AM   #39
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Just posted this on another thread, but since the T word came out (Toyota), I thought it relevant here too:


YouTube - Ford F150 vs Toyota Tundra - Frame Strength

YouTube - Ford F150 vs Chevy vs Toyota - Bed Bounce

As I said on the other thread, I have seen very similar results between the Toyota and the GM offering. I really only have GM vehicles, but as in the other thread, I saw a Toyota on a piece of very rough road here do the exact same thing as found in one of these videos. Followed my brother driving my dads '00 Silverado 3/4 ton down the same road I saw the Toyota pickup event and the Silverado also did what is seen in the video.

Based on my observation and these videos, I would NOT suggest anything larger than 23, maybe 25' with a Toyota pickup.
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Old 10-18-2008, 11:59 AM   #40
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Wingeezer:

I'm looking at Kelderman. Their web site is: Kelderman Air Ride

The internet research I did (reading forum boards, etc.) indicates that they are considered one of the best.

My truck can only take a rear air suspension. This will not increase the payload capacity but only soften the ride.

Installed it's approximately $1,800 if I recall correctly. However I want the on board air compressor with auto leveling so it would be around $2,500 installed. They are located in Iowa and I am close enough to have them do the install.

Hope this helps.
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Old 10-18-2008, 12:04 PM   #41
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Brian,

As stated previously I tow with a one ton Silverado diesel with no problems. I choose the one ton at the time because the price difference on the 3/4 ton was negligible. Average fuel milage for the duramax is 20mpg when not towing and 15mpg when towing. Of course diesel fuel has been running a bit more per gallon so pretty much a wash on fuel cost/mile. I do use my truck for other chores and the additional capacity has come in handy. Since retirement the Silverado is also our primary vehicle and other than an occasional strange look when pulling into the Church parking lot it works well for us. One draw back is cab height, requires step bars to get into and out of the truck easily. Best of luck with your decision.
Thanks again, I am particularly interested of course in input from folks that actually use one ton trucks!

I just sent an email regarding suspension stiffness between 3/4 & one ton trucks ti GM Canada so I'll see what, if anything, that brings. Wouldn't surprise me if they just look at the tow ratings and tell me that the 1/2ton I have is fine!

As for cab height, we are quite used to that, my wife & I are both short and I needed to put step bars on our 4x4 1/2T and no doubt the 3/4 or 1 ton will be an inch or so taller.

What size is your trailer? I haven't spent enough time looking at ours yet (!) but it looks the same as yours - 30ft classic?

In your pic, there are a couple of things I don't recognize over the entry door - are those some sort of lights you have added?


Cheers ......... Brian.
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Old 10-18-2008, 12:20 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebird View Post
Wingeezer:

I'm looking at Kelderman. Their web site is: Kelderman Air Ride

The internet research I did (reading forum boards, etc.) indicates that they are considered one of the best.

My truck can only take a rear air suspension. This will not increase the payload capacity but only soften the ride.

Installed it's approximately $1,800 if I recall correctly. However I want the on board air compressor with auto leveling so it would be around $2,500 installed. They are located in Iowa and I am close enough to have them do the install.

Hope this helps.
Dave,
Thanks for the link - I have bookmarked it.

The testimonials made me think I was on the Hensley arrow website!

Wonder if many folk are using air ride suspensions when towing Airstreams.

Not something I had ever considered. Seems to me that years ago i had that feature on some vehicle we owned, can't recall which - I think maybe it was on an old seventies Monte Carlo that we used to use to tow a 20ft light wt travel trailer. I don't recall if someone had added it or if the car came with it.


Cheers .......... Brian.
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