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Old 09-12-2017, 08:28 PM   #29
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IMO a properly sized WDH with built-in sway control set up at the CATScale with good weight bias between steer & drive axles is OPs answer number one. For capability with anything smaller than a 30' classic. Assuming you are using the best set ups from any of the five 1/2 ton truck Mfgs. Tundras have the best reputation for durability and the worst reputation for fuel consumption. The pattern for longevity is good maintenance. Here is from our past stable all bought new except one second owner.

89 Buick Park Avenue Buick 3.8 315,000 miles sold.
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:22 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by wave man View Post
I don't intend on living on the edge, hell I get enough of that at work.

My point is merely that "on the edge" is ambiguous when the edge is not clearly delineated...if it was, this would not be a never ending back and forth discussion..am I right?

For example at first it was blood curdling warnings . . .
Oh yeah, blood curdling warnings are the standard of forum argument.

I think you've figured it out though, there is no edge. It would look more like a curved line, that is routinely flattened by great hitch setups (check out the "ridiculous" but successful Can-Am combinations), decent well maintained equipment, common sense in loading, and sensible driving according to weather conditions, terrain, and traffic.

Want some cheap, easy extra safety margin? Reduce your speed by 5 mph when driving conditions are less than ideal.
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Old 09-13-2017, 06:36 AM   #31
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...as I happily tow my 30' Classic with a Tundra 20-something trips per year...
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Old 09-13-2017, 07:55 AM   #32
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Hi

There are a *lot* of people who run this or that model truck for quite a ways with no issues. There are also a few people who on any model truck from any year have a terrible experience. That's just the way things work out. Indeed there are a very few models that have a defective design on this or that in a year, a design defect rarely makes it more than two years. Once corrected ... pretty much no more issues. Yes, I'll never buy a certain brand again after transmission issues, that's not logical, its emotion.

Numbers may be mind numbing, but going through them is important. Overloading a vehicle is more than just some legal mumbo jumbo. It's not a good practice. I know people who grossly overload vehicles and get away with it. I've also seen some very real disasters result from it. The parts don't immediately go snap when overloaded. They wear quicker and become more likely to go snap ....

Bob
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Old 09-13-2017, 08:46 AM   #33
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Payload is the only number that is close to being overloaded even with a 30', but a 30' may have less tongue with than a 25' or 27'.
I haven't heard of any reliability issues with the 2nd generation Tundra. The 5.7 engine, transmission, and 4:30 rear end gears have remained unchanged since 2007. The truck got a slight body style update in 2014. The 2007-2013 Tundras are very similar. The 2014-2018 Tundras are very similar. I would like to see another styling upgrade and maybe an 8-speed transmission.
I have a friend with a 1st generation Tundra who had to get a new shifter. Her truck has over 200,000 miles.
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Old 09-13-2017, 12:00 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
Oh yeah, blood curdling warnings are the standard of forum argument.

I think you've figured it out though, there is no edge. It would look more like a curved line, that is routinely flattened by great hitch setups (check out the "ridiculous" but successful Can-Am combinations), decent well maintained equipment, common sense in loading, and sensible driving according to weather conditions, terrain, and traffic.

Want some cheap, easy extra safety margin? Reduce your speed by 5 mph when driving conditions are less than ideal.
Hyperbole is easy fun for all ages! 🤣

Appreciate the feedback dkottum, you've boiled it down nicely there.
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Old 09-13-2017, 12:03 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by uncle_bob View Post
Hi

There are a *lot* of people who run this or that model truck for quite a ways with no issues. There are also a few people who on any model truck from any year have a terrible experience. That's just the way things work out. Indeed there are a very few models that have a defective design on this or that in a year, a design defect rarely makes it more than two years. Once corrected ... pretty much no more issues. Yes, I'll never buy a certain brand again after transmission issues, that's not logical, its emotion.

Numbers may be mind numbing, but going through them is important. Overloading a vehicle is more than just some legal mumbo jumbo. It's not a good practice. I know people who grossly overload vehicles and get away with it. I've also seen some very real disasters result from it. The parts don't immediately go snap when overloaded. They wear quicker and become more likely to go snap ....

Bob
An important thing to keep in mind to be sure.
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Old 09-13-2017, 12:26 PM   #36
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An important thing to keep in mind to be sure.
Not that important if your head is where it's supposed to be.

When towing, 400 lbs over GVWR distributed evenly across our two 3900 lb axles, but well under our axle ratings is barely relevant to the 7500 lb truck.

When hauling (not towing) 400 lbs over GVWR resting mostly on the rear axle may exceed its 3900 lb rating, is quite relevant because it will have a significant effect on steering control and braking.

Two quite different conditions that manufacturers must account for with one (generic) GVWR number.

As for weight legal mumbo jumbo, there is none for recreational towing. It's a commercial thing inforced by weigh stations that you will not be required to go into. Unless again your head is in the wrong place and you're towing your stick-built house out to the campground for the weekend.
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Old 09-13-2017, 12:32 PM   #37
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10-4, much appreciated
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Old 09-14-2017, 04:24 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wave man View Post
I don't intend on living on the edge, hell I get enough of that at work.

My point is merely that "on the edge" is ambiguous when the edge is not clearly delineated...if it was, this would not be a never ending back and forth discussion..am I right?

For example at first it was blood curdling warnings not to exceed payload... but then after going through a number of strangely similar threads (...the nature of huge sprawling forums everywhere that mature)
and brain numbing fatigue has set in.. and I'm about to blow smoke for immediate evac, the axle weight limits and related issues in the earlier post reveal the mirage effect. The line is moving!

I'm aware that legal eagles everywhere can't stand the thought of rules being broken, but we all know there are, too, many, rules.

I'm aware that standards of good sense in all endeavors have a foundation in mistakes leading to trial leading to better practices- I respect that but decry the inevitable descent from Wisdom into BS bureaucracy..

I'm trying to process it all, filter it, let it simmer, and reduce it to the essence.. looking for straight talk is all.

I'm not a race car driver though I commute with Houston drivers who evidently think they are. I understand what Slowmover (and others) preach: awareness of limits/others/speed/environment/ability etc ad nauseam. I'm deliberate by nature and logical enough to see sense in caution and preparation. But I see the cracks in the veil too much, I'm a grumpy getting old nonconformist who questions the status quo. Not because I think I know better, just because. Language isn't always precise after all, depends on alot of things. As we say.. "Change the question and the answer changes too." All in pursuit of the solution to a problem...
No disrespect intended, just wondering if where the lines may actually be - isn't the same as where some "suit" tells me he wants me to believe they are.

Wow, not so chatty normally this forum is good for me lol.

Thanks for feedback and comments, just seeking....
Might want to have a look at the threads on cracked TV springs and broken axles. If there are any.

The vehicle load is a non-starter, even though it's well-loved.

Braking distance, steering and handling matter.

I haven't had disc brakes on a TT much as I would like to. Have pulled trailers thus equipped.

I have had them on 18-wheelers. Simply said, there is no substitute.

Discs are predictable. Drums aren't.

A VPP hitch with trailer discs makes negotiating surprises a predictable exercise. Antilock TT brakes and trailer stability control are the rest.

If payload is such a concern, get a van. Lower CG, shorter rear overhang and far greater cargo capacity. There's a recent thread or two on the Nissan NV3500 to look at.

A 1k TW will, after WD, leave 400-lbs per TV axle. Since when does that mandate a pickup?

How heavy the combination, so what? It's controlling it that matters. The first is too simple for extended discussion. The second is about TV design, and it is worthy of extended discussion. Too fearful a topic around here.

Example: if the TV of choice doesn't have rack & pinion steering with independent front suspension, then it's the other that does to move to top of the list. If indeed (this is ignored) a pickup is anywhere near being the best choice (as its last). The rollover-prone pickup isnt a good solo choice

Remaining upright and lane-centered is the goal. Solo or towing.

Solo duty dominates TV choice as it's the majority of miles. Is it also a good choice for AS towing? That's a rare thread.

Went past an F350 pulling a 23 or 25 yesterday in NW OK. Bikes, kayaks, all kinds of crap hanging off truck. No thanks. Not the first time I've seen this. "Most toys" isn't a 65-mph proposition (upper speed limit) on a non-limited access two-lane US highway with hard-running cattle haulers and limited sight lines. I'd rather be in my work rig than that thing.

Cargo capacity is meaningless as a measure of safety. Some discipline on what to carry is part of the thing, too.

I'm looking for the threads where the TV was worn out in 200k miles. I've apparently missed them over the past dozen years. Or encountered them after the 1960s otherwise.

These are itty-bitty trailers. And stable as hell. Work with that, not against it.
.
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Old 09-14-2017, 04:30 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
Not that important if your head is where it's supposed to be.

When towing, 400 lbs over GVWR distributed evenly across our two 3900 lb axles, but well under our axle ratings is barely relevant to the 7500 lb truck.

When hauling (not towing) 400 lbs over GVWR resting mostly on the rear axle may exceed its 3900 lb rating, is quite relevant because it will have a significant effect on steering control and braking.

Two quite different conditions that manufacturers must account for with one (generic) GVWR number.

As for weight legal mumbo jumbo, there is none for recreational towing. It's a commercial thing inforced by weigh stations that you will not be required to go into. Unless again your head is in the wrong place and you're towing your stick-built house out to the campground for the weekend.
The legal requirement is the axle/tire/wheel rating. Up to not exceeding 34k on Drives or Tandem, nor 12k on Steer. And at or under 80k. No one cares about a manufacturer advisory (except maybe in Canuckistan).

Officer discretion otherwise.

Citations will be "Too fast for conditions" another topic widely ignored in practice.
.
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Old 09-14-2017, 06:01 AM   #40
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So much for Tundra 5.7 owners...
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Old 09-14-2017, 10:00 AM   #41
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Thanks for your feedback Slowmover, it is appreciated.
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Old 09-14-2017, 10:03 AM   #42
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So much for Tundra 5.7 owners...
Hey, to a degree all input is potentially valuable even if not solicited, I learn a lot by listening to anyone who likes to talk..
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