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Old 10-14-2006, 09:59 PM   #43
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GM trucks are under recall to repair rust that forms under the wheel speed sensor. The rust expands, and forces the sensor away from the tone ring, causing it to lose signal. I bet your GM parts guy didn't tell you about it, either.
The rotors and drums above should be replaced, along with the hardware for the pads and shoes. I would take a close look at the brake hoses, as well, especially at the parts where the rubber hose joins the steel line. Any swelling or expansion there is very bad, and could cause the brakes either to not apply, or not realease.
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Old 10-14-2006, 11:08 PM   #44
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OK everyone ,take a good look at those brake parts there .It is very disturbing to see this .The rotor is severly corroded away by salt roads or the ocean ,whichever it is .the brake pad is barely doing anything ! this is a
very neglected brake system .All that heavy rust is the rotor .the salt is
corrosive as we know and this is a perfect example of the damage it does .
Id suggest getting the ABS tone rings on the front axles a look ,they are probably totally rusted ,causes incorrect signal to ABS system .Even a tiny
dent on one tone ring tooth can cause the ABS light to come on ,seen it
on rebuilt axles alot ,get remanafactured axles with new CV joints on them
and always check the tone ring teeth.Silver toy ,the dealer is should not
use your codes ,if they did ,and did not do there own diagnosis which
would go beyond the codes ,you would pay big bucks ..Any good shop will do there own diagnostics and make there own recommendations .codes are to help find the problem ,direct you to the source ,give you information .I use the codes and the data in the PCM for all sensors ,so if I have a coolant sensor circuit code ,Id run a scan ,if I had a -40 degree reading (open sensor) Id know its bad .nobody likes the dealer ,no surprise there I certainly do not ,but there is more to it than just codes .If you want to do all your own work ,better get a scantool with some data stream capability ,codes are not enough and having autozone diagnosing your car is not a good idea .
getting the codes is ok ,buying parts they want to sell you is not..The bureau
of auto repair has gotten down on autozone on this ,as they are diagnosing
problems by reading codes and selling parts to fix them .they are not a licensed auto repair facility .

Scott
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Old 10-15-2006, 06:41 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottanlily
this is a very neglected brake system .All that heavy rust is the rotor .the salt is corrosive as we know and this is a perfect example of the damage it does.
We have owned the truck for just over a year - we purchased it pre-owned from a dealership. The truck did have an ABS rust recall which we took the truck to the dealer for. The interesting thing about that is hubby indicated to get to the ABS sensor, you have to remove the rotor. Apparently, for the recall, the dealership must have somehow figured out that my truck didn't have the ABS issue because hubby indicated the original factory rotor retaining rings were still in place which means the dealership never removed the rotors.

I'm not sure how we could have known about this issue without 1) the ABS/brake lights in dash warning us of an issue or 2) doing the complete brake inspection we did this weekend. We have pulled the wheels in the past to inspect the brake pads from the side but we never pulled the rotor off until this time. I guess we were also lulled into complacity because the truck is relatively new (i.e., 2003 with just 45K miles on it and it was still under factory warranty when we purchased it). Perhaps the P.O. didn't break in the truck properly and warped the rotors during the break-in period. I do know that the P.O. was pulling horse trailers with the truck and traded this truck in for a diesel dualie.
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Old 10-15-2006, 09:33 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yukionna
The interesting thing about that is hubby indicated to get to the ABS sensor, you have to remove the rotor. Apparently, for the recall, the dealership must have somehow figured out that my truck didn't have the ABS issue because hubby indicated the original factory rotor retaining rings were still in place which means the dealership never removed the rotors.
If your truck is like the other newer GM trucks I have seen, all it takes is a mettric allen socket, and you can unscrew the sensor and replace it without taking the rotor off. If the tech was a contortionist, he could have done it without taking the tire and wheel off as well. Since it's a recall, you can bet they have had to do many of them, and have found the fastest (read make the most $$$ in labor) way to perform the repair.
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Old 10-15-2006, 10:35 PM   #47
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I must emphasize here ,that the those rotors are NOT like that due to warpage !! the severe corrosion from the salt destroyed them ,layers of the steel have been flaking off for a long long time .The ABS rings are not on the rotors unless they are a 2 wheel drive ,yours are 4 wheel drive and the ABS
tone rings are part of the front CV axle shafts,so the rotors can be removed
easily off the front wheel hub ,the axle tone rings are part of the CV joint.
so the dealer most certainly could replace the wheel speed sensor .That
being said the corroded rotors have been like that a while and if the pads
have been checked ,? the rotors are right there cannot miss it ,so I
don't know ,but now you guys can get all that replaced and start fresh
with all new parts ,salted roads make short work to any metal under the vehical especially the rotors .My big concern is that you had good braking to speak of ,no pad to rotor contact happening in any significant amount.
Id recommend to replace the calipars and hoses also and look carefully at the metal /steel brake lines ,if they have ANY rust ,order new lines and have them replaced . One things for sure ,when its all done you will not believe
how great it will stop ,and stop the trailer as well .Oh and one more thing
about the dealer ,most all dealer warranties done do not pay the mechanic
his or her normal rate ,its usually half ,know this for a fact ,even toyota does not pay there techs full rate on warranty work ,so they will get it done as fast as they can .Its possible some dealer managers will go ahead and pay
top rate ,but the factory does not compensate the dealer.

Scott
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Old 10-16-2006, 12:09 AM   #48
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Hi, I think Scott, on post #47 said just about all there is to say on your brakes. I will say from the looks of your pictures, I don't know how you stopped at all. I agree with Scott, new rotors, new pads, new calipers, and whatever else looks bad. [New means new, not rebuilt] As for dealer mechanics, [I was one] Warranty, campaigns, and recalls pay very little. Most mechanics are paid on commission so time is literally money. Mechanic's time clocks are in tenths of an hour. So if this recall pays three tenths [0.3] of an hour, the mechanic gets 18 minutes to do the job. If he can beat the clock and do this job in 12 minutes, he makes more money per hour. For this 18 minute job the mechanic has to aquire the repair order, find the keys, find the vehicle, drive the vehicle into his office, [stall] hoist the vehicle, order the parts, install the parts, dig into his personal tool collection [a five to twenty five thousand dollar tool investment] return the old parts, do required paper work or computer documentation, verify repair and / or road test vehicle, and then park the vehicle. All for three tenths of an hour! I used to spend about four hours a day doing warranty repairs and about four hours a day doing C.P. [customer pay] repairs; On pay day, my check reflected about 80% to 90% of my pay was C.P. and the rest, 10% to 20% I jokeingly called, my warranty bonus. A job that I did at work as a professional mechanic that I could do in one hour, the average home person couldn't do in eight hours and in some cases, not at all.

Bob
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Old 10-16-2006, 06:32 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottanlily
Id recommend to replace the calipars and hoses also and look carefully at the metal /steel brake lines ,if they have ANY rust ,order new lines and have them replaced . One things for sure ,when its all done you will not believe
how great it will stop ,and stop the trailer as well.
Thanks for all the great commentary on my brake situation. Hubby inspected the system and found he only needed to replace the rotor and brakes. He did need to lubricate some other parts. He also pulled out the ABS sensors and cleaned them but he didn't have easy access to the rest of the ABS system. The system has been back together for two days now but the ABS & brake lights haven't shut off yet.

I had to return the factory service manuals because the dealer received the manuals for 2004 and not 2003 so we are planning on waiting until the manual comes in so he can look at the ABS system in more detail to see if there is more he can do. I don't know if the ABS brakes are working yet as hubby indicated I need to go easy on the rotors for the first 50-100 miles.
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Old 10-16-2006, 11:06 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS
Most mechanics are paid on commission so time is literally money. Mechanic's time clocks are in tenths of an hour. So if this recall pays three tenths [0.3] of an hour, the mechanic gets 18 minutes to do the job. If he can beat the clock and do this job in 12 minutes, he makes more money per hour. For this 18 minute job the mechanic has to aquire the repair order, find the keys, find the vehicle, drive the vehicle into his office, [stall] hoist the vehicle, order the parts, install the parts, dig into his personal tool collection [a five to twenty five thousand dollar tool investment] return the old parts, do required paper work or computer documentation, verify repair and / or road test vehicle, and then park the vehicle. All for three tenths of an hour! I used to spend about four hours a day doing warranty repairs and about four hours a day doing C.P. [customer pay] repairs; On pay day, my check reflected about 80% to 90% of my pay was C.P. and the rest, 10% to 20% I jokeingly called, my warranty bonus.
Very interesting information. So, I wonder if the mechanic takes his time doing C.P. repairs vs. rushing like heck on the warranty repairs???!!! But, I suppose that is what "cost estimates" are for so the consumer can find out up front what the expected cost of the repair will be.
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Old 10-16-2006, 11:53 AM   #51
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Very interesting information. So, I wonder if the mechanic takes his time doing C.P. repairs vs. rushing like heck on the warranty repairs???!!! But, I suppose that is what "cost estimates" are for so the consumer can find out up front what the expected cost of the repair will be.
It's "rush" al the time, the more flat rate hours you can turn in, the more you get paid.
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Old 10-16-2006, 04:18 PM   #52
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Codes? What Codes?

Well, That was an interesting read of the situation you encountered over the weekend.
One thing I haven't seen yet is what were the codes the dealer pulled out of the ABS module? I've seen rotors that end up in that condition without ever causing an ABS fault. Sometimes we'll pull a fault for an implausable signal from a wheel speed sensor caused by rust accumulating in the sensor wheel but that would be about it.
If the light doesen't go out on it's own, and the dealer checks and clears the fault, I'd be interested in knowing what it was.

If someone would have told me 35 years ago that I would have to plug a computer into a car, to turn on the computer, that turns on the computers, that run the headlights, wipers, windows and something called Sat/Nav I would have told them they were crazy and to stop smokin' the cheap weed they bought outside the Student Union. No one in their right mind would buy or make a car with that on it. Oh Well. It seemed like a good career move at the time.

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Old 10-17-2006, 09:53 PM   #53
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I got mine!!!

I got mine!!!

I received my ODB-2 reader and the associated cables for my truck. Costs $52 plus shipping. I downloaded and installed software to interface with the reader into my Palm-IIICe. The software interfaces with the ODB-2 reader and tells me all kinds of information besides what pending and active engine trouble codes I have in. Things like % load on the engine, throttle position, O2 sensor data, Air flow, fuel flow, etc....

It also data logs all the points and I can chart that if I need. Nice little unit. Only problem is that I need a RS-232 Null Modem (which I of course have) to connect it to my Palm. What I don't have is a female to female adapter for the RS-232 connector so that I can actually connect the palm to the reader. I'll be getting that tomorrow.....
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Old 10-18-2006, 05:59 AM   #54
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Tell us more!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup
I got mine!!!

I received my ODB-2 reader and the associated cables for my truck. Costs $52 plus shipping. .....
What make/model did you buy? Where did you purchase it?
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Old 10-18-2006, 09:27 AM   #55
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I got the reader from ScanTool.net for 59+shipping. I have a Palm Pilot PDA (model 3xe) and on that I installed ODBgauge. So for less than $65 I have an ODB-2 reader of a good enough quality to fill my needs. I will say that I am finding lots of software out there to interface with the various readers out there. I use a MAC and there isn't really any software out there for that but if you have a PC, you can set up quite a system for monitoring, data-logging and analyzing the information you can get.


Here are the links for SanTools and for the interface software I use.




http://www.scantool.net/products/pro...&products_id=1


http://www.qcontinuum.org/obdgauge/
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Old 10-22-2006, 07:15 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Nugler
...
One thing I haven't seen yet is what were the codes the dealer pulled out of the ABS module? ...
No codes yet...still working on that. I just picked up the 2003 factory service manuals and all things "ABS" start with an ABS scan. My dealership indicated they would charge me $40 to hook my truck up to an ABS scanner to just get me the codes. At this point, unless some other solution pops up, that looks the way I will have to go to get the codes. There are no after market ABS scanners at this time.
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