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Old 02-15-2016, 10:47 AM   #113
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Just got a new Titan XD to pull my 26U.
Please keep us updated on your experiences towing with the XD...the good, the bad, and hopefully not the ugly!
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Old 02-22-2016, 08:53 PM   #114
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I stopped by a Nisan dealer today to look at the new diesel 1/2 ton. The one I looked at was a crew cab tricked out with every option offered, except 4 wheel drive. My first thought was it was a really nice truck that I would consider. Then I looked at the door sticker, $59k+. Then I looked at the door placard payload capacity. It was 1,444 lbs. It is not rated to haul me and the 34's tongue weight at the same time!

The 2016's not the truck for me!

Maybe they are just being conservative with the new truck and will up the payload capacity in future year models.
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Old 02-24-2016, 12:58 PM   #115
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If it had 4x4 it would probably only have 1300lbs labeled payload.

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Old 02-25-2016, 04:35 AM   #116
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Max payload is 2090 lbs when properly equipped. Wish I knew what the correct setup was for that payload. You are right though @ only 1400 lbs you basically have enough for the driver and tongue weight of a 34. Not enough for most peps.

My suspicion is that these numbers are conservative. My old 03 F350 is rated at 9900, 12500 tow, 20,000 combined. 3400 lb payload. (225 hp/525 tq) in the real world the only way that truck will hold 3300 lbs is if it only weighed 6000 lbs. my empty weight is almost 8000.

Ratings are just numbers the mfgs have to put out there by law. There's a lot of fluff and opinion with different mfgs. There's no real set standard. I'm not sayin to dump 2 ton of stone in your new Titan but, my gut says it can haul a 34 with the wife and kids onboard. (If you get one with that is set up right).

They got the hp and tq to be a player in the game. Time will tell if this truck can sell. If they are making a diesel truck that's decently equipped that One can buy for around 45-50k... It's definitely worth a look.
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Old 02-25-2016, 09:17 AM   #117
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"Ratings are just numbers the mfgs have to put out there by law. There's a lot of fluff and opinion with different mfgs. There's no real set standard."

NOTTTTT!!!!!!! This myth keeps being perpetuated and lives...but it is a myth!
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Old 02-25-2016, 11:13 AM   #118
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"Ratings are just numbers the mfgs have to put out there by law. There's a lot of fluff and opinion with different mfgs. There's no real set standard."

NOTTTTT!!!!!!! This myth keeps being perpetuated and lives...but it is a myth!

I'll agree to an extent. Like I said if the truck is "rated" for 1000 lbs of payload I wouldn't suggest piling 4000 lbs in it. But there is a lot more wiggle room in ratings than you may think. But that wiggle room varys from MFG to MFG. Some may have little to none while others are very conservative. The regulations in this area just aren't stringent enough to be thoroughly accurate by all.

if a truck weighs 7000 lbs and has a GVW of 8900 how can it possibly have a payload capacity of anything more than 1900 lbs?


payload is calculated by GVW of the vehicle minus the actual weight. period. yet some MFG's still post payload numbers that are outside of this realm. It appears Nissan is posting number with the GVW minus actual weight standard. IMO (and its just an opinion) is that the Titan with 310hp/555tq and a 6 speed auto will haul a 34' and your family no problem. You may end up over the payload or GVW rating of the truck. I have no doubt I go over the 9900 lb rating of my 13 year old F350 every time we go camping and it does just fine.
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Old 02-25-2016, 11:44 AM   #119
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The pure definition of Payload is GVWR - curb weight. Some manufacturers calculate payload as GVWR - curb weight + 1 (or sometimes + 2) occupants. Full fuel and fluids is pretty standard.

But where I have a problem is the belief that one can go over GVWR, GAWR, payload, etc. without any long term ramifications (at best), and that the numbers are just "marketing numbers", and mean nothing. Also, it is very risky to assume there is "wiggle room" or "margin" or "conservative assignment" in these numbers. I have seen some lines where this is true, to some extent....and some where it is in no way true. But to assign some margin number by the SWAG method is false!!! Period! I have had this discussion with many design and durability engineers in my career.

For example: My Silverado 1500 maxtow:

GVWR = 7600#
Curb weight = 5409#
Payload = 2034#

7600 - 5409 = 2191

2191- 2034 = 157 (150 pounds is the standard "allowance" for one occupant). There are 7#s I can't account for.
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Old 02-25-2016, 12:14 PM   #120
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...
But where I have a problem is the belief that one can go over GVWR, GAWR, payload, etc. without any long term ramifications (at best), and that the numbers are just "marketing numbers", and mean nothing. Also, it is very risky to assume there is "wiggle room" or "margin" or "conservative assignment" in these numbers. I have seen some lines where this is true, to some extent....and some where it is in no way true. But to assign some margin number by the SWAG method is false!!! Period! I have had this discussion with many design and durability engineers in my career.
...
I fully agree. If these numbers really meant nothing, why would Nissan slap a sub-par 1500# payload on Titan and put themselves in a disadvantage with their competitors? Why not slap a 2000# payload number?
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Old 02-25-2016, 02:18 PM   #121
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I suspect so-called payload numbers may be assigned for a lot of reasons, that don't relate directly to an Airstream hitched to a truck with the hitch weight distributed among all the axles of both.

The people who assign these numbers don't know if I'm loading 1400 lbs of gravel in the truck's bed (mostly on the rear axle), or loading 1400 lbs of Airstream and gear on the hitch and bed, then distributing the load (onto both axles minus a couple hundred lbs to the Airstream's axles). The handing and braking is poor with the gravel load, and I wonder if it overloads the rear axle, especially when driving on uneven (bumps) roadway.

I suspect most light pickup buyer's have no idea what that number in the door jamb says; they'll never haul much of anything anyway.

And perhaps these "payload" numbers assigned like highway speed limits, the powers-to-be knowing people will exceed them if it meets their purpose.

If for no other reason, I don't lose sleep over a "payload" number because it is preceded by the statement "should not exceed". Common sense can be applied.
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Old 02-25-2016, 02:56 PM   #122
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Look I'm not saying payload and GVW numbers hold no merit and don't belong in the discussion. They are obviously there for a reason. But we all know, and have seen, numbers that can go both ways. What I am saying is that if you are an average joe out truck shopping for something to haul your camper around once a month. You should do those calculations. but crossing one truck off your list cause you will be 287 lb over on payload is probably foolish.

A commercial driver who runs 40,000 miles a year and comes up 1200 lbs over the payload should probably consider shopping elsewhere.

This new truck looks promising. Can haul a 10,000 lb travel trailer or boat with plenty of diesel grunt. Probably rides nice and looks like will be a good alternative to buying a 3/4 ton truck just to get that diesel grunt when pullin that trailer to the campground. Should you leave the kids bikes at home cause your gonna be overweight??? Again just my opinion but I'm willing to say go ahead and throw them in and don't sweat those numbers on the door sticker.
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Old 02-25-2016, 03:22 PM   #123
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I suspect so-called payload numbers may be assigned for a lot of reasons, that don't relate directly to an Airstream hitched to a truck with the hitch weight distributed among all the axles of both.

The people who assign these numbers don't know if I'm loading 1400 lbs of gravel in the truck's bed (mostly on the rear axle), or loading 1400 lbs of Airstream and gear on the hitch and bed, then distributing the load (onto both axles minus a couple hundred lbs to the Airstream's axles). The handing and braking is poor with the gravel load, and I wonder if it overloads the rear axle, especially when driving on uneven (bumps) roadway.

I suspect most light pickup buyer's have no idea what that number in the door jamb says; they'll never haul much of anything anyway.

And perhaps these "payload" numbers assigned like highway speed limits, the powers-to-be knowing people will exceed them if it meets their purpose.

If for no other reason, I don't lose sleep over a "payload" number because it is preceded by the statement "should not exceed". Common sense can be applied.
Oh, it would be nice if we could all go through life justifying things to our liking, and having it be true. Of course payload is only on spec that must be adhered to...and yes, that's because there are other spec to which it needs to be balanced against...like GAWRs and GVWRs. Is is possible to exceed total payload, and still be under in GAWs and GVWs? I suppose if you removed some factory installed equipment, but I doubt anyone is willing to do that. Since payload = GVWR - curb weight, I guess you are saying it is OK to exceed GVWR and/or GAWRs in your example.
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Old 02-25-2016, 03:33 PM   #124
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Look I'm not saying payload and GVW numbers hold no merit and don't belong in the discussion. They are obviously there for a reason. But we all know, and have seen, numbers that can go both ways. What I am saying is that if you are an average joe out truck shopping for something to haul your camper around once a month. You should do those calculations. but crossing one truck off your list cause you will be 287 lb over on payload is probably foolish.

A commercial driver who runs 40,000 miles a year and comes up 1200 lbs over the payload should probably consider shopping elsewhere.

This new truck looks promising. Can haul a 10,000 lb travel trailer or boat with plenty of diesel grunt. Probably rides nice and looks like will be a good alternative to buying a 3/4 ton truck just to get that diesel grunt when pullin that trailer to the campground. Should you leave the kids bikes at home cause your gonna be overweight??? Again just my opinion but I'm willing to say go ahead and throw them in and don't sweat those numbers on the door sticker.
I will, hesitantly, acquiesce to part of your statement...with much reservation.

I'll share this with you. A couple years ago I worked with a fleet account who (with the "help" of a "professional" upfitter) acquired a fleet of emergency response vehicles. The chassis were built upon, and loaded in such a manner that the rear axle weights were well below RGAWR. The total weight was well below GVWR, but the front axle was 40 - 400 pounds over FGAWR with just a driver in the cab.

Their duty cycle involved 100% loads 100% of the miles driven and were at higher speeds during runs, over not-so-great roads.

Starting at a low of 90k and a high of about 140K, we began to see front suspension seating and mounting problems.

This is a high volume chassis, and we saw the issue nowhere else in the country with any frequency at all.

Now granted, this was a poorly designed and engineered upfit and the loads were placed without regard to any balance consideration, but it certainly illustrates how a few hundred pounds matters....over time and miles.
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Old 02-25-2016, 03:56 PM   #125
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I will, hesitantly, acquiesce to part of your statement...with much reservation.

I'll share this with you. A couple years ago I worked with a fleet account who (with the "help" of a "professional" upfitter) acquired a fleet of emergency response vehicles. The chassis were built upon, and loaded in such a manner that the rear axle weights were well below RGAWR. The total weight was well below GVWR, but the front axle was 40 - 400 pounds over FGAWR with just a driver in the cab.

Their duty cycle involved 100% loads 100% of the miles driven and were at higher speeds during runs, over not-so-great roads.

Starting at a low of 90k and a high of about 140K, we began to see front suspension seating and mounting problems.

This is a high volume chassis, and we saw the issue nowhere else in the country with any frequency at all.

Now granted, this was a poorly designed and engineered upfit and the loads were placed without regard to any balance consideration, but it certainly illustrates how a few hundred pounds matters....over time and miles.

Rich you have to be careful comparing commercial and personal worlds. They are different.

Im actually driving a service vehicle right now. My company has 287 vehicles. Im on a team that we put together with a fleet manager as our leader, to spec out truck properly. I can tell you first hand we don't like it when things get tight. You are correct we see a lot of extra expenses down the road.

My company had a philosophy of buy cheap and put em to work. My last truck was spec'ed out by a guy who ignored those numbers. Had a 2013 E450 cutaway with a service body and the Triton 5.4L and a 4.56 gear, GVW was 14,050. with me and all my stuff on board I was at 15,000 actual. Not only is that illegal its expensive. I put 60,000 miles on it in about 2 years. Ate up 2 sets of tires, 2 sets of front brakes, and it was in the shop countless times for engine problems. spit a spark plug out of the head at 49,000 and was out of service for 3 weeks. Drove it like a race car at 4200 rpm up ever hill and got a whopping 6.4 MPG! Truck was too light duty.

Fast forward to the trucks the new team spec'd out. 2015 F450 6.7 diesel. Aluminum service body. GVW is 16,500. actual empty weight is 10,660. Loaded I am 14,500. No break downs and I get 3 MPG better fuel economy. Im legal and I I even have room to tow and haul equipment without going over on GVW or combined!


I get what you are saying man. I really do. Im not trying to say you are crazy. The numbers all mean something. But a private guy who might overload it by a couple hundred once or twice a month during the summer months is nothing to worry about. Yeah, try slapping that truck with a service body and run it at max ratings for 5 years, day in and day out for 200,000 miles... I agree you are a fool to over look these numbers.

The truck appears to be well built and I am hopeful it will sell well. If it does then we can expect some more completion in the future. For me? Im not gonna worry about goin over that rating by a couple hundred pounds for 2500 miles a year. It will most likely do just fine. However it is just too new right now and we don't know that for sure. time will tell.
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Old 02-25-2016, 03:58 PM   #126
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Not to sway this thread in a different direction, but is there ways of improving load capacity of a truck? For example adding load E rated tires, beefing up the suspension, getting more HP out of the engine?
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