Nissan Titan

[Big Dee]

Originally Posted by davidz71

you have a nice vehicle with the 6.0, slightly more HP than the 6.0 in the 2500 and 2500HD due to tuning/exhaust, trailering capacity that is higher than the 2500 with the 6.0 engine but less than the 6.0 in the 2500HD.

Craig,

I was looking at the GMC website after your first post to compare and somewhere it said they discontinued the extended cab 2500. I thought that was interesting.

The Quadrasteer is a hefty weight, no doubt, and that's the reason for such HD stuff on the Denali. Your right about it lowering the GVWR. Still the important number- GCVWR is 16000#, is a pretty good one. And RGAWR 4000#, FGAWR 3925#. These are the numbers you can never find on truck sites. ???

Also there is the issue of all wheel drive and how combined with quadrasteer and it's wider track, makes for exceptional control for towing.

[Big Dee]

Also I noticed, the 2500 has 16 inch wheels standard and the Denali has 17".

[davidz71]

Dee,
I have heard good things about quadrasteer when it comes to horse/boat trailers and RV trailers. I realized early after the purchase of my 2500hd 4X4 that it was not the same nimble truck as my '92 Z71 4X4. Heavier and wants to plow into corners but man-o-man can it tow. It seems to be my best truck yet as far as a smooth running engine and transmission combination.

I just hit 31,000 miles and it seems that the little bit of oil I have to add every once in awhile has almost stopped. I'd heard that the big blocks had a tendency to use some oil and it was the nature of the beast. Maybe it's just a breakin process but it hasn't been a problem at all.

[Big Dee]

I had a '94 Z71 4x4 too. Loved that truck. The Denali feels much more substantial and is much heavier. And it is more nimble thanks to 4WS.

That's the biggest difference of all: the turning radius on the 2500 is like 12 feet more! 12 Feet!

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by danesh

Davydd:
Your posts show that you have a 2004 titan, though you write like you are looking to buy an avelanch, is there something wrong with your titan? We are trying to buy a new vehicle to pull our 27 sovereign with 6800lbs GVWR. I cannot see why there is so much talk about 1/2 vs 3/4 ton towing vehicles. We pulled an almost 3500lbs 22' trailer with our 2000 Honda odyssey few years ago for more than 3000 miles, with no problem. It had a towing capacity of 3500lbs. We could go 80 with no wind effect in level interstates. Ussually, the manufacturers calculate a 10-20% safety factor in their specifications. So titan's 9400 ils towing capacity should be more than enough for a 7000lb AS. Unless somebody here has had an actual problem with these figures, it appears that we are mostly guessing.
Cheers to all.

Danesh,

I was looking to upgrade my towing capacity that I had with a Chevy Trailblazer (6200 lbs) to an Avalanche. After I saw, and drove a Titan I changed my mind and went with it.

Speaking of what you can tow, I just got back from England and Wales. Caravans (trailers) seem very popular there. The shocking thing is they pull them with compact cars. We were stopped on the motorway (their version of Interstate) because of an accident. When we finally cleared we saw that it was a trailer and VW Passat that evidently got of of control and collided with another car. We rented a Kia Sorento midsize SUV and felt we were one of the largest passenger vehicles on the road.

[danesh]

Hello Everybody:
We just got back from a 2000 miles camping trip with our 27' 6800lbs Airstream. It was our first time towing with our new Nissan Titan. Before we towed the AS with a Ford Expedition, 5.4 litter Eddie Bawer 4x4 with towing package. Our titan is a 4x4 and has a towing package too. The difference was unbelievable. We did not feel we are pulling the AS while going up the hills. The towing mode works great. I did not use the cruise control to avoid sudden gear shifts. For those of you who are thinking to get a towing vehicle for your AS, we recommend a Titan. FYI, the gas millage was around 9-10 MPG. We also used a Hensley Hitch for the first time. And what they say about it is true. No sway at all. Just thought some of you may be interested to know about our experience.
Cheers

[Camp-Dog]

Originally Posted by danesh

The difference was unbelievable. We did not feel we are pulling the AS while going up the hills.

Obviously you're quite happy with your truck, but lets be a little realistic. 6800 pounds and couldn't tell you were towing....uphill.

Even my 7.3l TD would surely remind me of a 6800 pound trailer when towing through the hills. I'm beginning to wonder about the Titan altgether. It seems recently there has been a real offensive to prove it is atleast equal to a 3/4 ton truck, now it seems the magical little Nissan is now superior to a 3/4.

Not trying to discount your experience, but let's be realistic here, a lot of people look to online forums such as this for real world information.

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by Camp-Dog

Even my 7.3l TD would surely remind me of a 6800 pound trailer when towing through the hills.

Well the 7.3L was a Ford right?

The Titan and Armada seem to have a cult like following and that's great....and IMHO if you are under the 6k range, it might not be a bad idea. It's my opinion after driving a buddies while towing my 3500lb boat at grade, that it was back there and it was clearly back there. I will say that I couldn't picture hooking up my 6300lb Airstream to it (Titan), particularly if I was going to the Rockies. The Titan does have the wheel base for 25' or longer, however the Armada (which is another truck talked about around here and seems to share several aspects of the Titan) does not have the wheelbase to go far beyond say 22' if you go by the numbers let alone the towing claims made since the weights usually imply a longer trailer. The fact that the Armada claims a 9k tow rating I feel is not only reckless, but possilbly dangerous given it's wheelbase (let alone the rest of the specs that the Titan shares with it).

The thing that I find interesting is that with the big tow package they are able to magically take the truck from:

Maximum towing capacity (lbs.)

Standard
6,500
7,400
7,200

To:

With Big Tow Package
N/A
9,500
9,200

That is a big 3k difference for just adding this:

Big Tow Package (SE and LE Only)

• Class IV receiver hitch
• Additional 7-pin wiring harness plug
• Trailer brake controller pre-wiring under instrument panel
• Heavy-duty battery (710 CCA)
• Lower final gear ratio (3.36:1); similar to 4.10:1 on a 4-speed automatic
• Extendable tow mirrors
• Transmission temperature gauge
• Increased tow capacity

...and with the standared disclaimer that all need to understand regardless of what truck you buy:

Towing performance and speed are affected by vehicle payload, tow weight, road grades and weather conditions, including high temperatures. See owner's manual at dealership before purchase for details.

In the end it's it not a bad truck (either of them). They have merit and clearly deserve some respect, however, regardless, it's a 1/2 truck trying to act like a 3/4 ton and for those of you who have come from a standard (non HD) 1/2 and went to a real 3/4 ton, well you know what I'm talking about. It's a lesson that cost me thousands of $$ to learn. For those who haven't and are content, good for you....but please just keep in mind that anything can tow something, the real questions are should it, not can it.

[Silvertwinkie]

BTW, just as a reference, here is the Tahoe and Silverado base towing for 1/2 tons with similar sized engines. I think you'll understand my concern a bit more clearly about getting a 3k tow rating increase by just mainly changing the gearing. Maybe GM is just a bit conservitive, perhaps Nissan is a bit too optimisitc, I don't know, but here are GMs numbers just the same to take a peek at.

Trailering

*
Vortec 4800 V8 (Automatic)
Vortec 5300 V8 (Automatic)

MODEL
Max. Trailer Weight (lbs.)1
Required Axle Ratio
Max. Trailer Weight (lbs.)1
Required Axle Ratio


Tahoe (2WD)
5700
3.23
6700
3.23

*
6700
3.73
7700
3.73

Tahoe (4x4)
6500
3.42
7500
3.42

*
7500
4.10
7800
4.10



1500 WITH VORTEC 5300 V8 ENGINE WITH AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION

*

Model
Box Length (ft.)
Max. Trailer Weight (lbs.)1
Required Axle Ratio
GCWR2 (lbs.)


1500 2WD
Regular Cab
6.5/8
7300/7200
8300/8200
3.23
3.73
12,000
13,000

*
Extended Cab
6.5/8
7000/6800
8000/7800
3.23
3.73
12,000
13,000

*
Crew Cab
5.7
6700
7700
3.23
3.73
12,000
13,000

1500 4x4
Regular Cab
6.5/8
8000/7900
9000/8900
3.42
4.10
13,000
14,000

*
Extended Cab
6.5/8
77003/7600
87003/8600
3.42
4.10
13,000
14,000

*
Crew Cab
5.7
7400
8400
3.42
4.10
13,000
14,000

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

The Titan and Armada seem to have a cult like following and that's great....

It seems a lot of retort comments about the Titan seem a bit defensive in questioning its capabilities and questioning Danesh's open credibility by Camp-Dog in the previous message was a bit undeserved. You would almost think the Nissan Titan was a threat to mom, apple pie and the American way. It probably is the purest American truck (designed in San Diego by Americans, engine manufactured in Tennessee and truck assembled in Mississippi). It does not come from Japan, Mexico or Canada.

In 2004, TruckWorld and Trailer Boat magazines, and others, did extensive testing and the Titan bested all the 1/2 tons. Even MotorTrend's review for Truck of the Year read like the Titan was heads above the others but then mysteriously awarded the Ford F150. I can find no head to head reviews refuting Titan claims. I drive a Titan and had a Chevy Silverado. I speak from direct hands on experience. I'm convinced Titan is the better truck and my pedigree is 12 previous Chevy trucks and a stint working in the Chevy Truck Manufacturing Plant in Indianapolis.

If it be a cult, Silvertwinkie, that's OK, I'm used to it. Your exhaustive retort and analysis looks to me like the stuff a Wintel PC user comes up with against a Macintosh. I know you wouldn't want to be associated with that.

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Your exhaustive retort and analysis looks to me like the stuff a Wintel PC user comes up with against a Macintosh. I know you wouldn't want to be associated with that.

Bite your tounge.

I'm not in total disagreement about the Nissan offerings. As I've said in other threads (unlike some people in OS camp flame wars) it's not a bad truck and a great first shot at the full size market. I also think that there are some REALLY GREAT PCs out there (non Macs), but they are running Linux due to the limitiations and problems associated with Windows.

I guess what I am getting at is more of a bigger picture, not that of simply the Armada or Titan, but of 1/2 tons in general, with 4.xL or 5.xL engines geared to make up for shortcomings and given a large tow rating. In towing moving is only half the equation, stopping is another big part. Personally, tow ratings can be misleading and sometimes give a false sense of security. Add to the fact that most sales folks don't properly qualify a buyer and you have folks towing 30-34' RVs with Tahoes, Expeditions, Armadas and Titians. On flat ground, you might be OK, but get into hills and mountains and you could be asking for disaster. To be fair, I also wouldn't tow a 6k to 7k coach with a 116" or 117" wheelbase 5.3L Tahoe, even though Chevy says it can or a 5.3L 130" wheelbase Suburban. Since this is a Titan thread, by nature I place those concerns squarely on the Titan and it's shorter wheelbase sibling, the Armada. On several other threads, I think you'll find that I'm fairly consistant with my comments about a 1/2 tons regardless of the make (particularly post 2004 camping season). Now if Nissan placed a few more cubes under the hood, had a much more stout rear differential/axle, most of my bigger concerns about it would evaporate. GM did that with the 1500HD.

[Big Dee]

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

In the end it's it not a bad truck (either of them). They have merit and clearly deserve some respect, however, regardless, it's a 1/2 truck trying to act like a 3/4 ton and for those of you who have come from a standard (non HD) 1/2 and went to a real 3/4 ton, well you know what I'm talking about.

Twink,

I like that you put in the "(non HD)" disclaimer in there. Probably just to shut me up before I get going. So I won't get started on the erroneous "1/2 tonners can't do it" argument.

As for the Titan, I too don't understand the defensiveness of many of even acknowledging that the Titan is a good TV. The Titan has received high marks on all the road tow tests. Nissan is on fire and spitting out impressive products for over a year now. And I have talked to a few Titan owners who are estatic about their truck. Why such begrudging comments? It is like a new kid moved in on the block but no one will let him play with them.

[Silvertwinkie]

Yea, my behind still stings a bit from the last time I forgot to mention the 1500HD models as a different beast than standard 1500s, as such is now part of the standard company line/disclaimer.

BTW, Dee, I thought you were the one that mentioned the 31 foot floorplan a while back. I took a look recently at the 31' Dinette floorplan that is new for the '05 model year. I think that's our next upgrade...to keep it tow rating related, I am hopeful that our 6.0L Suburban (4.10s) will be able to tow it safely (when the time comes).

[Big Dee]

Twink,

You do make me laugh! And I love your signature.

There is a new Classic floorplan??? Wow. I am off for the AS website to check it out. Another upgrade for you?

The 6.0 is up to the task, I assure you Twink. Read my Death Valley Road Report and you will see that the 6.0 came, the 6.0 saw, the 6.0 conquered! The biggest, longest grades I have ever encountered towing (not the highest, that comes this summer in the Eisenhower Tunnel) and the 6.0 was VERY impressive. I love this engine.

[Camp-Dog]

Originally Posted by Davydd

It seems a lot of retort comments about the Titan seem a bit defensive in questioning its capabilities and questioning Danesh's open credibility by Camp-Dog in the previous message was a bit undeserved.

My apologies for any misunderstanding in my previous post. My point is anyone who straps nearly 7000 pounds to the back of ANY consumer grade tow vehicle (i.e. 1 ton truck or less) is going to feel it when it comes to any appreciable hill/grade -- PERIOD !!! This has nothing to do with brand, make, model, etc. I just don't like to see people be mislead by hype and rhetoric.

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by Big Dee

There is a new Classic floorplan??? Wow. I am off for the AS website to check it out. Another upgrade for you?
.

Well they came out with a dinette version of the 31 footer that really has caught my eye. I'm not sure when, but it seems to be the next logical step. It's mainly due to the value of the units holding their value as the model years increase in cost-- fairly substantially over the last few years, so that the hit some folks think one might take doing this is actually nearly a non-issue. Now if I hold onto it for several years, there will no doubt be a good hit, but while the iron is hot, it's almost a you can't lose situation. In addition, if you buy it on time, you can write off the interest on the loan unlike a car note.

I agree the 6.0L is a great engine. I was talking with Jack Canavera about it since he tows his 30' Classic slide with one and has been very pleased as has JohnHD and a few others. Based on the substantial positive info I received, I opted to go with the 6.0L, regardless of the piston slap issues that was circling around. With the 4.10s and 4L80E, I should be good from what it looks like on paper and my gut tells me it should be OK too. The main thing I like about the Suburban is the size of it and the stability it commands (even without the weight bars or sway on it--- yea, I just had to try it once). It really does make for a comfortable tow vehicle.....the Impala did have the power, but the ol Burb really has the best of both worlds as far as I can tell. Wind, etc doesn't really effect it like it did with the Impala. I've heard some concerns about the 8.1L drinking oil and besides that, the 8.1L no doubt will cost more to feed, but as it should I figure since it is producing more power.

[Camp-Dog]

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

In addition, if you buy it on time, you can write off the interest on the loan unlike a car note.

For the 2004 and 2005 tax year you can also write off the actual sales tax paid at the time of purchase also.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p600.pdf

This may be some good tax info to post for people who are considering purchasing this year. Probably needs to be moved to a new thread though.

[markdoane]

To resolve the perpetual argument, go to this page and vote for your favorite truck.
http://www.autorox.com/rsc/fusion_pa...d=2&category=9

[Tin Hut]

This year I moved from a 1997 Suburban 1500 towing a 24' Tradewind to a 28' CCD towed by a 2005 Suburban 2500 with 8.1 liter engine and 4.10. The new 2500 accelerates better with the 28' trailer attached than the 1997 Suburban 1500 did with nothing on the back. I get 9.9 mpg towing and about 11-12 mpg not towing so far with 5,000 miles. I'm very impressed with it so far. Add the touch screen navigation system and other features it's been a nice upgrade.

[wallybyam]

A dually is NOT over-kill for anything 30 feet or longer. In fact, having owned two 3/4 tons prior to my current dually, it is EXACTLY what the doctor ordered!

Bruce