Nissan Titan

[CanoeStream]

Davydd -- Yup, Nissan held price setting clinics before the release and wanted to match value per dollar without the gimmickry of rebates and 0% financing.

Dave -- I will confirm these vehicles have a fine pairing of a strong engine with the gearing choices made on the 5-speed automatic. You'll notice the hop isn't there when you're towing but it will do just fine in that capacity.

[COLORADO_CAMPER]

Hi all,

Long time since I posted but I thought I'd fill you all in on my new purchase. Just picked up my new Nissan Titan Crew Cab last evening. So far it is absolutley perfect. I got the 4x4 LE model in color "Sedona", which looks like a copper color from the paint chips and website pix but which actually turns out to be more of a root beer color. I was so pleased to see the color for the first time and it really looks sharp with the two-tone leather interior. Motor sounds awesome - reminds me of the 345 cid in my old International Scout. Lots of authority and snap.

I decided on the Titan after pulling the Bambi last season with the Xterra. Did okay, but worked those 6 cylinders awfully hard in the mountains here in Colorado. I also have to say that, with the WD hitch and sway control, the Xterra/Bambi combo was absolutley rock solid and never even quivered in the crosswinds of Wyoming or when passsed by the big rigs. I still have the Xterra as my daily driver and am very pleased with it, in general.

First trip with the Titan/Bambi is a ways off while I get the new motor broke in and get throughthe first oil change. I will keep you all posted as to how it does towing and will also post some pics when available.

Happy Camping!

[Silvertwinkie]

I looking forward to hearing the real world test results!

[COLORADO_CAMPER]

Here's a pic of my new Titan. Rear passenger room in the Crew Cab is incredible, though you do lose 6" of bed length to get it. Bed is 5'6" as opposed to 6' for the King Cab. For those interested, total vehicle prices was $35,650 not including taxes.

[Davydd]

Bob, Dave, Colorado...

When buying a Chevrolet you have to not only know the MSRP but you also have to know the dealer's cost and then figure out what to offer or see if you are getting a good "deal". For instance, when I bought my Trailblazer the sticker said $35,875 and I got it for $31,000 which was about $1200 under so called published dealer cost, but felt my trade in was about $1,500 low compared to the NADA book and other online sources. So I felt I came out about $300 over dealer cost which seem to be what everyone on the Edmund's Trailblazer forum was claiming at the time. It was all to complicated. I remember growing up my Dad loved this ritual.

My wife use to buy Saturns until she got desparate for AWD. Saturn sold the sticker price and went through the current NADA book with you on trade in. It seemed clear cut. The Saturn sticker pricing always seemed great and way low compared to Chevy comparables.

So how does Nissan deal? MSRP pricing seems Saturn like. But since they list it as a MS(uggested)RP there must be some negotiation.

[munimula]

the way we negotiated went like this - sticker w/ tax and destination charges was $42k . we looked at what the monthly payments would be with our downpayment figured in. the number came out to like $900/month. we negotiated the monthly down to something that was more manageable for us. at like 6%.

i think that approach saved us $1700 off sticker. market economy/supply demand is at play here. when we bought our armada back in january there were only two dealers in northern nj that had any in stock.

we also think we'll do better on the backend with this vehicle. i've read that zero interest offers actually hurt resale values down the road. i think the armada may hold it value better than suburban or tahoe when it comes time to sell it.

oh yeah, when the dealer caught wind that we were pulling an airstream, sooo many towing questions, the lease option went away from discussion.

if you are considering a lease program, i guess it's best not to mention 31 ft trailers.

--dave

[85MH325]

Originally posted by micsupply
we looked at what the monthly payments would be with our downpayment figured in. the number came out to like $900/month.
--dave

OUCH!!!!

It's a beautiful truck tho! You're going to enjoy it.

Roger

[COLORADO_CAMPER]

Davydd,

I have not found price haggling with Nissan dealers any different than any other manufacturer.

Price haggling starts the moment you step on the dealer's lot for the first time (notice I said the "first" time). Talk to the first salesman that accosts you, tell him what you are interested in, check it out, test drive it - then tell him (yes, or her) that you are simply in fact-finding mode and that you are comparing like makes/models. Politely takes the business card that is offered and get the he** off the lot before you do something sponatneously stupid. This is the step that, if missed, will cause you to always second guess your purchase. Even if you fall head-over-heels in love with a particular vehicle - leave. Sleep on it and force yourself to actually compare all similar makes and models. I have never had a salesman take my informatiion and have never had one call me at some later time to see if I was still interested, so from my experience, don't expect that to happen. Rather, expect to return to the dealer a few days or even a week or two later. This time, have your research completed and KNOW that this is the make/model that you want. Find or ask for the same salesman that you met with previously and, if he is not available, either return later or stroll the lot while you wait. When you are together, tell him that you have made your decision and you would like to begin the purchase process. In my case (with both the Xterra and the new Titan), I made it clear to the salesman that I have never paid sticker price for a new vehicle and have no intention of starting now. My standard offer is $500.00 over dealer invoice for whatever vehicle/options/accessories I am interested in. Make your offer and make it clearly and be resolute. The salesman will likely tell you that he has to take your offer before his supervisor for approval - fine. But, make it clear once again that this is your offer (whatever it is) and if that is not acceptable then you will visit the other dealers in the area before committing to a purchase. If the offer is accepted - great. If not, thank the salesman for his time and leave. I have never had a salesman let me off the lot when this phase is reached. Remember, the salesman loses too if you leave without buying from him. Make him go to work for the both of you. And, once again, make it clear that you have made your offer and it is not negotiable until you have at least presented it to the other dealers in the area. I can almost guarantee you that you will get the vehicle for your offer price. And, once the offer is accepted, ask to see the dealer invoice for the vehicle so that you can verify what the purchase price will be. Every vehicle on a dealer's lot has a factory invoice which he keeps in a little binder. Ask for a photocopy so that you will have it in black and white.

Now, as far as trade-ins, financing options, etc... that is truly a unique case with every buyer. In my experience, though (and I have purchased at least one new car every year for the past eight years for both business and personal use) the less you confuse the matter the quicker the deal gets done. If possible, no trade-ins - you will usually get more for your vehicle selling it privately anyway. Plus, this is one less way for the dealer to try to "make up" some of the money your haggle from the new vehicle purchase price. With financing, good credit and conventional terms ($5,000 down and 60-month or less financing) will get things wrapped up quickly.

Just my 2 cents and by the way, this applies whether you are buying a new vehicle off the lot or ordering one to your specifications.

[85MH325]

Originally posted by COLORADO_CAMPER
Now, as far as trade-ins, financing options, etc... that is truly a unique case with every buyer. In my experience, though (and I have purchased at least one new car every year for the past eight years for both business and personal use) the less you confuse the matter the quicker the deal gets done.

Well written CC!

Buying a car (or RV) has three separate phases, if you have a trade in. The first is negotiating the price of the car, as described by ColoradoCamper. The second is negotiating what you'll accept for your trade. The third is negotiating financing. Treat them separately, and never allow them to be confused or negotiated at the same time. Know what your trade in is worth and demand top dollar for it's condition. Lastly, have your financing lined up before you set foot in the dealership. Know what the best rate you can get through your bank or credit union. Then, you can name your rate for the F&I guy and tell him what he has to beat to earn your business.

It's a dealership's business to get as much of your money as possible. It's your job to get as much car as possible while retaining as much of your cash as possible. Somewhere there's a middle ground where you can meet. Just make certain that it's YOUR call, not theirs.

Roger

[Davydd]

Originally posted by COLORADO_CAMPER
Davydd,

I have not found price haggling with Nissan dealers any different than any other manufacturer.

Price haggling starts the moment you step on the dealer's lot for the first time (notice I said the "first" time). Talk to the first salesman that accosts you, tell him what you are interested in, check it out, test drive it - then tell him (yes, or her) that you are simply in fact-finding mode and that you are comparing like makes/models. Politely takes the business card that is offered and get the he** off the lot before you do something sponatneously stupid.

I did that exact step yesterday. Then I started all the research. Edmund's seems to be a good source and confirmed how I felt about Chevy pricing. Edmund's also didn't indicate buyers were getting anything off MSRP at this time. Maybe that's because the Titan is new. Dealers are actually tacking on an additional $5,000 over MSRP for Chevy SSRs right now.

I went back to the Minneapolis Auto Show today this time with wife in tow. We walked back and forth between the Titan and the Avalanche about four times. They were at opposite ends of the show. The Avalanche interior and seating is very familiar to us since we previously owned a 1999 Silverado. It felt good. We judged the front seats the best. On the debit side not much has changed in five years and it is starting to show.

Between walks we checked out Dodge Rams, Ford F-150s and Toyota Tundras. Forget Tundra. It is smaller than all the others and is not a serious tow vehicle. Dismissed. Dodge Ram was not inspiring on the interior. I'm not a tall guy and the Dodge presents a true challenge to board for me without a step addition. The others I can do with or without a step. Dismissed Dodge. Ford F-150 FX4 appears to be the whole package and was Motortrend truck of the year. It is greatly improved over the bloated whale look of the past. It was OK but there seems to be some niceties missing from it that both Chevy and Nissan have despite the fact that Ford has umpteentillion options. It comes closest in spec to the Nissan Titan. Dismissed Ford simply because I gag on them from a lifetime of being anti-Ford.

And finally the Titan. There seems to be a synergy about it and the designers really did do their homework. I liked everything about it except for the idiosycracies of the typical Nissan exterior design trim touches especially the front grille. The overall shape and lines are OK. From a design sensitivity standpoint I don't like either the Ford or the Nissan badge emblem and much prefer the bowtie and Ram. Maybe it is something you have to get used to. Spec wise it was a tad better than Ford in HP, torque and inches. The Titan engine will give the 5.7L Dodge Hemi a challenge.

The interior of the Titan LE gets my nod. It has space galore and seats that fold upright. The front passenger seat back folds down to create a work surface. The cup holders are ample and right. The gear shift is sporty. There are 10 speakers and the radio sound is great. It has a jack to plug in an MP3 player to use through the sound system. The brake controller is pre-wired under the dash. The overall design is more advanced and aesthetically pleasing to me than the other three. Fit and finish is excellent and way better than the Chevy.

Now I have to hold off the urges. Play it cool. Be cool.

[COLORADO_CAMPER]

Davydd,

My thought process in selecting the Titan was very similar. I first saw the Titan at the auto show here in Denver last Spring. And, like you, my first thought when I saw the truck fron the front was "yuck". I like a truck to have a wide stance and look stout front to rear. The Titan does have a very nice stance but the somewaht dropped-nose hood on the Titan just did not inspire me. However, as they say "looks aren't everything." Spend a little time with the Titan, as you and I did, and any hang-ups you may have with appearance will quickly fade.

The interior, as you have pointed out, is massive. There is no other full-sized truck that, IMHO even compares. Sit in the back seat of a crew cab and you will be amazed at how much space the designers have reserved for your guests. The doors are full-sized, the seats are full sized and the windows go all the way down - none of this 2/3 down stuff. Those who suffer from a bit of clostrophbia will have no reservations at all about riding back seat in a Titan crew cab. Storage bins and cup and bottle holders are every where. Armrest and door sills are at just the right height.

As far as innovation, Titan is King. The highlight has to be the modular truck bed rail system which allows you to incorporate a host of optional accessories to suite your particular use of the truck. Bike racks, moveable tie-downs, storage boxes, tailgate extenders - whatever you can dream of. The tailgate has convenience lighting and, I can tell you, is one HEAVY sucker. There is also a weather-proof 12v DC oulet near the rear of the bed. Throw in factory Rhino-liner and, of course, the convenient driver's side weather-sealed tool box behind the rear wheel and it's a pretty progressive design.

But the best part about the Titan is that it is ALL TRUCK. The 5.6 liter V-8 (about 345 cid) has all the punch you would expect from an American engine - which it is - built in Tennessee. The throttle is responsive (if not a bit touchy - it's fly-by-wire technology) and it sounds absolutley wonderful. Steering is very responsive and the truck is easier to park than the Ford Expedition that I owned a coupe years back.

As far as towing ability, the numbers are right on the money but, as I've said, I don't have any first hand experience with that yet. I will let you know as soon as I do.

Good luck working your deal. BTW, I ordered mine on January 2 and took delivery March 19. Looks like production is running about 10 weeks or so.

[Davydd]

Originally posted by COLORADO_CAMPER
My thought process in selecting the Titan was very similar. I first saw the Titan at the auto show here in Denver last Spring. And, like you, my first thought when I saw the truck fron the front was "yuck".

At least when your in the cab you don't have to look at the grill.

If I purchase the Titan I will definitely get the overhead rack bars to mount my Yakima kayak saddles. They designed them with Yakima.

[COLORADO_CAMPER]

I really don't mind the look of the grill/hood now. It doesn't have the traditional start-to-finish body lines that I've grown used to with American designs - but then little about this truck is traditional. In all, I think it's a sharp looking truck and I wouldn't be surprised to see other manufacturers following Nissan's lead in both design and functionality. That will be determined by the impact that Nissan has had on market share by the end of the model year.

[Davydd]

Note the signature. I passed on that Mercedes Quad Cab Don was trying to recommend to me and I passed on the Chevy Avalanche that I was first thinking about. I bought the Nissan Titan LE Crew Cab in Radiant Silver color with the Big Tow Package. I also got the overhead rack carriers for our kayaks. This was a big decision after owning at least 7 Chevy trucks in my lifetime.

I probably did more research for this truck than for any previous. I read all the comparisons between Chevy Avalanche, Chevy 1500 CC, Ford F-150 CC and this Nissan from each manufacturer, Edmunds and Kelly Blue Book. I also read every review I could find. The real clincher was this article:

http://www.iboats.com/sites/trailerb..._page_259.html

I will be picking it up Tuesday night.

[COLORADO_CAMPER]

Davydd,

Congrats on the new TV!

The article you included was sure enlighening (and especially well received by those of us who purchased a Titan before having read it, I'm sure)

The proof will be in the pudding, as they say, and I'll truly know whether my relationship with my new Titan will be a LOVE or LOATHE situation once I have actually towed with it. I sure do love everything about the truck so far, though (especially the Rockford Fosgate audio system)... did I say that?

Again, CONGRATS! (and keep us posted)

[danesh]

Davydd:
Your posts show that you have a 2004 titan, though you write like you are looking to buy an avelanch, is there something wrong with your titan? We are trying to buy a new vehicle to pull our 27 sovereign with 6800lbs GVWR. I cannot see why there is so much talk about 1/2 vs 3/4 ton towing vehicles. We pulled an almost 3500lbs 22' trailer with our 2000 Honda odyssey few years ago for more than 3000 miles, with no problem. It had a towing capacity of 3500lbs. We could go 80 with no wind effect in level interstates. Ussually, the manufacturers calculate a 10-20% safety factor in their specifications. So titan's 9400 ils towing capacity should be more than enough for a 7000lb AS. Unless somebody here has had an actual problem with these figures, it appears that we are mostly guessing.
Cheers to all.

[j54mark]

Originally Posted by danesh

We are trying to buy a new vehicle to pull our 27 sovereign with 6800lbs GVWR. I cannot see why there is so much talk about 1/2 vs 3/4 ton towing vehicles... So titan's 9400 ils towing capacity should be more than enough for a 7000lb AS. Unless somebody here has had an actual problem with these figures, it appears that we are mostly guessing.
Cheers to all.

With tow and gvw capacities pressing onward and upward to every greater heights, it is not at all clear to me what the distinction is in "1/2 ton" and "3/4 ton" anymore.

There are other factors besides tow capacity (gross combined vehicle weight less the weight of the tow vehicle itself). Of these, perhaps the most important to us tug-alongs is the axle weight ratings. Take one of the popular four door pickups, add a fiberglass shell, throw in four or five passengers, a generator, some firewood, a couple of bicycles, and then maybe a 200 lb. Hensley along with 700 lbs of tongue weight and you can overload a rear axle while remaining within gcvw. This, in turn, will break very expensive parts.

danesh, I have the same coach as you and just went from a Chevy K1500 to a K2500. It is admitedly overkill, but OH!! How it takes the work out of towing!

Mark

[Big Dee]

Originally Posted by j54mark

With tow and gvw capacities pressing onward and upward to every greater heights, it is not at all clear to me what the distinction is in "1/2 ton" and "3/4 ton" anymore.

Me too! My 1/2 ton has everything that the 3/4 ton has, maybe more. The tow rating is almost the same.

[davidz71]

Dee,
Pull up the specs for your Denali and compare. Best I can remember, the 2500 lightweight 4wd ext. cab had a GVWR of 8600 lbs., same as reg. cab. long box. These combos are with 5 sp. HD manual overdrive or 4 sp. auto overdrive. Vortec 6000 is available in each.

The 2500hd has a GVWR of 9200 lbs. and is available with a 6 sp. HD manual overdrive or the Allison 5 sp. auto transmission. The 6.0, 8.1 gas and the Duramax diesel engine are available. The 11.5" ring rear end differential of the 8.1 and Duramax is the same rear end available with the 3500 Chevy.

I'd be interested in comparing the brake sizes of your '02 Denali with the '02 6.0 2500 lightweight.

[davidz71]

Dee's post has been bugging me because I felt that I had missed something and was shooting from the hip. I had heard that the quadrasteer dropped the GVWR somewhat as compared to a vehicle without it. That was in the back of my mind. I did some searching and found 2002 specs for the GMC Denali ext cab 2 dr. The curb wt. is 5,013 lbs., GVWR is 7,200 lbs. (up from 6,800 lbs. the year before), Trailering capacity is 10,000 lbs. which is quite respectable. This is no doubt due to the increased horsepower (325) of the 6.0 in that vehicle and 4.10 rear end as compared to the 6.0 of the C2500 which was limited to 300 hp.

I found specs for a C2500 2dr reg cab with curb wt. of 4,995 lbs., GVWR of 8,600 lbs. and trailering capacity of 8,800-10,800 lbs. The larger towing capacity is due to optional engines of 8.1 and Duramax diesel. I could not find a C2500 2 or 4 dr. ext. cab. for some reason.

The 2002 2500HD SLT 2 dr. ext. cab curb wt. is 5,393 lbs., GVWR is 9,200 lbs. and trailering capacity is 10,300-15,900 lbs.

So basically Dee, you have a nice vehicle with the 6.0, slightly more HP than the 6.0 in the 2500 and 2500HD due to tuning/exhaust, trailering capacity that is higher than the 2500 with the 6.0 engine but less than the 6.0 in the 2500HD. The GVWR stumps me though. I knew it was less than the 8,600 lbs. of the 2500 and 9,200 lbs of the 2500HD but 7,200 lbs. seems low. Remember, I had heard that the quadrasteer did take away from the GVWR but I did not think you would lose that much.

Anyone out there who can elaborate on this?