New VW Touareg initial impressions.....

[Silvertwinkie]

Saw one today. Very nice SUV. Lots of saftey and of course German engineering.

If anyone has seen the V8 model, you've seen that it has a a muffler in the back that looks like it came off an 80s Chevy. Looks kind of like those big gas tanks! I can hardly figure out where they would place a weight distributing hitch that could tow 7000lbs.

The V6 has some space for it, but the V8, is it tight on space!

Cost for a loaded unit is approx $48k.

Eric

[Pick]

$48K will get a nice GM Crew Cab Dually, L-O-A-D-E-D with Duramax/Allison. Actually a lot less with rebates, etc.

I like VW Jettas, have not seen a Toureg in person. I am sure it is a nice vehicle though. I like to see a "little more metal for the money", myself.

[Silvertwinkie]

Agreed.

I like the Duramax/Allison combo......heck, maybe I'd even upgrade to a Classic someday!

[67caravel]

Test drove a new Touareg the other day after seeing ads with it towing a 22'. Nicely appointed, comfortable, and, well, itsa VW. Looks like a WINNER for pulling a 22' CCD. Trailer weight limit: 7700 pounds with a tongue weight limit of 640 lbs - where does one see anything pertaining to a weight distribution hitch? Our dealer reports that this is not necessary or advised.

The V8 was around $50k, nicely configured with the suspension package, etc.

I know there are you truck die hards out there but some of us with dogs need a sportute as our only vehicle. I hate having the dogs running around the cab of a truck and toppers are flimsy and insecure against theft. And, hate to say it but diesels stink (literally)! http://www.thedesertsun.com/news/sto...12024855.shtml

[j54mark]

"where does one see anything pertaining to a weight distribution hitch? Our dealer reports that this is not necessary or advised"

A VW dealer may not be the best source of information on what is, or is not advisable for towing. At VW, the issue has not often come up before.

Mark

[67caravel]

Mark,

In your opinion is the weight distribution hitch required for pulling a 22'? Interested to hear why...

And, why would VW not be the best source for information regarding their vehicle?

I was at an A/S dealer the other day and had my '01 Land Rover with me. He laid all sorts of misinformation on me like I needed a weight distribution hitch to tow a 16' Bambi (LR, by the way, does NOT recommend a weight distribution hitch under ANY circumstances). This A/S dealer advised me that the problem related to the lack of a frame under the LR and that the add-on receiver wasn't strong enough (I just returned from a 2,700 mile trip through the mountains pulling my '67 Caravel without a glitch). Hardee har har!

The frame on the LR looks like two railroad tracks and of about equal strength. The receiver is part of the frame. This is NOT unibody construction. This was the dealership owner, of all people. Been in business since 1974! The guy didn't have a clue. So, where shall I find real good information? At the VW dealer, at the A/S dealer, or somewhere else (maybe this forum)?

Lay it on me!

[drboyd]

Forty Eight Thousand Dollars?!?!?

How about a duramax/allison suburban and a clothespin for your nose??

Man, that's a lot of cash for a vehicle thaqt's probably going to be majorly expensive the repair and has no history behind it ....

[67caravel]

A nicely appointed Suburban costs over $50k nowadays and has a #5,000 tow limit without a weight distribution hitch (WDH). A Toyota Land Cruiser is about $60k and can carry #6,500 behind it (no WDH required). Range Rovers are around $72,500 (#7,700, no WDH). BMW X5 is over $50k (and can't tow much at all). Times are a changing...

The Touareg is a very nice sportute that has an incredible towing capacity. It is safe and well engineered. Its abilities off-road are very impressive. Trust me, I have done all the homework between the aforementioned brands, above. The VW exceeds in most all capabilities except when you compare, for instance, the Suburban's space volume. The VW is smaller but has a healthy wheelbase, nonetheless.

Trouble with diesels is that they are coming under intense pressure to clean up their acts. That's the facts...

[j54mark]

67caravel,

Nothing was said about a 22' CCD specificially. I would have to have the weight, tongue weight, front and rear axle weight limits of the vehicle, cgwr, and probably a few things I can't think of right now to make an informed decision about weight distribution on the rig you specified.

What WAS said was it has a 7,000 lb. tow rating. Now, I tow an '85 Sovereign, 25', with an on the road weight of ~ 5,500 lbs. I guarantee it will unload the front wheels of my Chevy 4X4 diesel considerable without weight distribution. And it has a far longer wheelbase, and I'm willing to bet considerable more front end weight.

I would suspect any car dealer of being uniformed about hitches generally, and weight distribution hitches specifically. I would be more than suspicious of a dealer who has never before had anything to sell with any kind of tow rating.

Now, they may very well have all the facts, and may be absolutely correct. But I would want more than the salesman's word for it.

Mark

[67caravel]

Mark,

I am missing some of your thread. Please resend it. Very interested to hear your comments. Thanks.

[j54mark]

Sorry, somehow I managed to post in mid sentence. I think I have it edited now.

I just re read your statement about the AS dealer. You would think that people who sell trailers for a living would know something about hitches, but in my experience they are ignorant beyond belief - perhaps wilfully so.

Salesmen just want to move the iron. They can and will tell you anything they think you might want to hear.

I gotta tell you, the more I think about "weight distribution not recommended" and a 7,000 lb. capacity, the more nevous I get. That combo has GOT to seriously unload the front wheels! Or am I missing something important?

The VW does have one attribute that mitigates tongue weight somewhat, and that is a very short rear axle-hitch distance. (I use "axle" in its theoretical sense - I think the new VW has independent suspension). This helps balance a great deal both from a tongue weight angle and from a sway angle.

Mark

[67caravel]

You know, I appreciate your comments very much. Now I am learning something.

[67caravel]

Mark,

Maybe you can tell me (us) what is so important about a weight distribution hitch; how it works, what it does, how much it costs, etc.. It would be helpful. Thanks.

[j54mark]

We are straying rather far from the original post, so the moderator may want to move these last few posts to a new topic heading.

Here is a link that may help: http://www.hitchesonline.com/hitch_selection.htm

There is also a lot on this topic in the archives.

A weight distribution hitch does just that - distributes the weight of the trailer load over the front and rear wheels. You can easily imagine placing enough weight on a hitch to actally lift the front of the car off the ground. Well, even smaller amounts of weight on a hitch will raise the front of the car (or unload the suspension, as the engineers say), which affects handling. The amount of the effect depends upon the amount of the weight and the lever arm distance between the center of the rear "axle" and the hitch ball. In addition, you can overload the rear wheels, which causes problems with the differential, the tires, and everything in between.

In the case cited, the Toureg has a 7,000 lb. towing capacity. Since you usually want ~ 10 - 12% of the total weight on the tongue, that is maybe as much as 840 lbs. on the hitch ball. And remember, that 840 lbs is multiplied by the 30" or so of leverage between the center of the axle and the hitch ball itself.

In the case of the 22' CCD the as-delivered tongue weight is a rather high 620 lbs. Of course, if most storage is aft the trailer axle, that may actually decrease in real use. But generally, and this is the broadest sort of generalization, I think weight distribution is recommended for tongue weights over 500 lbs.

Mark

[Coloradobus]

67 Caravel,

We have a '67 Globetrotter and we use an equalizing hitch. The reason LR says no to this kind of hitch is the load leveling air springs which is an option on the Discovery. Our dealer says there is no way to lock it in place other than fully extended 4X4'ing. We have the middle Disco, model SE, and switched from the 18 inch wheels to 16. (Just because there is more choices)
We had a Range Rover '99 4 liter SE model before. We towed it behind our S.O.B. motorhome. You have a button to push to lock the suspension in place. This also goes for using a load leveling hitch. Disco has coils all the way around, so no probllem.
We just towed our Globetrotter to Southern Colorado with the EqualizeHitch brand equalizer hitch with 600 lb bars. Flawless towing at 65 and getting 12.5-13.9 mpg
You will find with a equalizing hitch you have much less porpoising going over bumps.

[67caravel]

Very helpful. We'll get this thread back on track.

I will discuss the towing topic with the VW factory folks and, so it seems, the A/S factory. Here's why...

The A/S brochure that the dealer gave me and referred to shows the following specs for the 22' CCD:

Hitch Weight: #480
GVWR: #5,300
UVW: #4000

---
The Spec Sheet that I just downloaded (pdf) from the A/S site shows the following:

Hitch Weight: #620
GVWR: #5,600
UVW: #4,210
Axle System: Single
(I included this since it seems to put into question other spec details. Clearly this is not a single axle trailer...)

---
Pics of the Touareg show it towing a 25' A/S...

I've determined that my A/S dealer does not give accurate info, the factory brochures contradict one another, that good marketing might be at play, and the real experts are the users of the products.

I guess I should ask, is there a Touareg owner out there towing a 22' who has experience to share?

[Silvertwinkie]

I've found that the brouchures are usually the correct numbers. The Safari 6-Sleeper is another great example where the web does not fully sync or match the brochure.

So, what I did was call Airstream. They sent me the specs on the 2004. Now I am not saying that the specs on the web are wrong compared to the 2003 brouchure since they could have made changes and the 2004 specs are not out in a brouchure. Keep in mind I can tell of one change and that is the belly pan (not that that could account for all that extra weight though, but you see where I am going with this).

At any rate, call Airstream and they can email you the specs and options......


As for the VW, I agree it's a good tow vehicle, but so is my full size '96 Impala SS. The Bambi makes the rear end (with good cargo coils) sag until the bars are in place, then it goes back to a stock stance.

Even with airbags or what VW has placed into the rear suspention, you still need to consider the fact of the weights on the tires. I am positive that if I installed airbags in the rear springs of my car, I could move the trailer without the weight bars, however, the bars as an indirect benefit add some stability to the rig. I know cause we've been towing with station wagons cars and trucks that could all handle the hitch weights and I will tell you that all, even the 2000 Silverado 3/4 ton behaves better with the tongue weights spread across all axles.

No slam on VW cause those pesky Germans (and I am one of those Germans) built and engineer some great suff....however, this is their first attempt at building a real tow vehicle. I would not take what the factory or the dealer says as law in regards to what you need to tow a 5300lb trailer. I think they have most of it and you can get the rest of the feedback here.

As I practice what I preach, my vote is weight bars, sway control and a decent brake controller.

Now from the orig post, I can't see where VW is gonna be able to place a hitch on the VW with the fancy exhaust system it has.

Eric

[Silvertwinkie]

BTW, the Tahoes and Suburbans that have lower tow ratings have the smaller engines. Only the Suburban can get the larger V8s.

What you get with the trucks (keeping in mind that I very much like the VW too) is a real full frame and not unibody. Second, the trucks are near the same heights as the campers. Wind resistance is diminished, and fewer bugs hit the trailer. Safety, I would think might be better in the truck cause of it's size and weight. Also, I am sure there are many other reasons, but the last one that comes to mind is the fact that GM (Ford and Dodge) have individually over 40 years of truck experiance each. Most have heavy duty commerical truck divisions. So you have access to the vast exp of that as well incorporated into your trucks.....

As someone said this is VWs first run, but I will say from Chevy exp, not as well built as the VW. Germans cars have a bit more attention to detail.

The VWs cost is almost the same as the GM truckline depending on what options you choose. The thing to consider though is overall operating costs. Oil changes, service, etc. Now the VW might not have as many service needs until it gets older making it less, however, oil changes, brakes, etc will cost more. So the real operating costs might be close if you account for fewer more costly visits with VW as opposed to possilbe more frequent (and less expensive hopefully) visits to the GM dealer.

Just my .02... The final choice in the end is of course yours.

Eric

[qqq]

& what about the "chic" factor...
The real reason is the poser power of trendy imports, no way will they ever match a full size US truck or SUV.

Hart

[85MH325]

Originally posted by Silvertwinkie
Also, I am sure there are many other reasons, but the last one that comes to mind is the fact that GM (Ford and Dodge) have individually over 40 years of truck experiance each. Most have heavy duty commerical truck divisions. So you have access to the vast exp of that as well incorporated into your trucks.....
Eric

IMHO, WHERE you're going to be towing is as or more important when choosing your tow vehicle than the vehicle's features themselves. Having had the extraordinary experience of having to swap out a water pump on a Ford 400 in a '77 F-250 in a side-of-the-road campground passing through Boontoolies Montana, I was able to walk into the local NAPA store and buy one off the shelf. Additionally had I needed it, there was a Ford dealer less than 30 miles away. There are even more GM dealers than Ford dealers in small town U.S.A.

Regardless of the quality of engineering, cars & trucks break. Even those that are regularly serviced experience breakdowns. Towing extracts a heavy toll on equipment. At least for the next couple of years, there won't even be many Volkswagen dealers who have much experience servicing the Touareg, much less independent shops. It's not a big deal if you're always within towing range of your selling dealership, but I can tell you from experience that waiting around for days for parts, and then having doubts about whether or not they'll be installed properly is NOT my idea of a good time!

I have had LandCruisers (which I think are one of the best around), and a veritible parade of other Toyota pickups (I have a rusted out '87 now that's been in the shop three days this week waiting for parts 'cause the local Toyota dealer 30 miles away had to order the transmission kick-down cable it needs), and other foreign sedans (my wife's commuter car is a '98 Civic), but I wouldn't even consider a Toyota, Volkswagen, or Land Rover as a tow car while living in the rural Midwest, or if I had plans to tow anything out of my own area.

Roger