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Denis4x4 · 12-15-2007, 06:37 AM

Tundra recall: Toyota's new woe

Drive shaft issue with 16,000 pickups adds to recent quality concerns.

Christine Tierney / The Detroit News

Toyota Motor Corp. said Friday that it would recall close to 16,000 new Tundra pickups in an announcement likely to generate fresh concern about lapses in the Japanese automaker's vehicle quality.
Toyota's standing has slipped in recent surveys, and it was dealt a blow in October when the influential Consumer Reports magazine said it would no longer automatically recommend new Toyota vehicles because of a drop in the reliability of some recent models.
The Tundra recall represents a further setback for the company, which has been the leader in quality for decades.
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Toyota said it was recalling 15,600 four-wheel-drive 2007 Tundras, or just under 10 percent of the new Tundras sold, to check the rear drive shaft. In some cases, a joint in the shaft may have been improperly heat-treated and may be too soft. That could cause the shaft to separate at the joint. The shaft transmits the drive force from the engine to the axles.
Toyota said the defect had not caused accidents or injuries, but it had seen an instance in which a customer complained of noise and the joint turned out to be too soft.
Owners will be notified starting later this month.
While the recall is modest in scope, it adds to the negative chatter about the new truck. Some customers have complained about problems with the tailgate, and 20 owners suffered engine failures early this year because of defective camshafts delivered by a supplier for the new 5.7-liter engine.
When Toyota rolled out the third-generation Tundra last year, executives described it as the most important launch in the company's 50-year history in North America.
"This is an all-new platform, and an all-new truck. The big engine is also new. A lot is going on there," said George Peterson, president of consulting firm AutoPacific in Tustin, Calif. "Even a Toyota is going to have some problems."
With the new Tundra, Toyota hoped to take a bigger slice of the full-size pickup segment dominated by Detroit's Big Three.
Tundra sales are up 58 percent this year, bolstered by generous incentives, but Toyota is unlikely to achieve its goal to sell 200,000 this year. Through November, it has sold 177,336.
"It looks like they'll fall short unless they have a really good December, but they'll come close," Peterson said. "Selling as many as they did is good news. The truck is pulling sales from competitors."
In the past two years, Toyota's CEO Katsuaki Watanabe has made it his highest priority to restore top-notch quality. The first vehicle to go through the more rigorous "Customer First" process is the Toyota Highlander SUV launched in October.
You can reach Christine Tierney at (313) 222-1463 or ctierney@detnews.com.

overlander63 · 12-15-2007, 07:08 AM

Toyota is not alone. Nissan is recalling some Titans and Armadas because they wired up the a/c radiator fan to run backwards, pushing instead of pulling.
Seems like maybe the Japanesse manufacturers are taking a page from the American manufacturers, and not the one about "quality is job 1".

ArtStream · 12-15-2007, 07:57 AM

humm, where are these units being manufactured?

**azflycaster** · 12-15-2007, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artstream

humm, where are these units being manufactured?

Indiana and Texas.

My 07 Double Cab 4x4 was made in Texas and may be on the list.

It sounds to me like Toyota jumped on this problem quickly and is doing the right thing.

wingfoot321 · 12-15-2007, 11:05 AM

Toyota is violating the japanese quality rules.

In 1989 my company had an expansion going on with our japanese joint venture partner. Our ex vp asked for a buildup schedule (units per day) and their operating director flat refused to give us one. His explanation was very simple; how do I know when the material specs will be right?, when will the equipment be debugged?, when will "tap on the shoulder" labor training be complete?,and a host of other unknowns? He then went on to explain that the "japanese market" would punish a manufacturer who produced a less than quality product.

Toyota has way over extended their organization. They are building too many factories at one time. The only question is whether the american public has a competitors product that is capable of exacting the punishment.

85MH325 · 12-15-2007, 11:36 AM

I have an '02 Tundra Access Cab 4WD with a 3.4l six. I absolutely love it. It's had one recall for ball joints; I got new ball joints and a free alignment at 57,000 miles. I was quite pleased!

I've looked at the '07 Tundras, and frankly I'd seriously have to consider all of the competitors before I'd buy a new Tundra. I'm just not a fan of the new truck. IMHO, they've missed their old Tundra target market altogether in going after the market of the "big three". The new Tacoma is aimed at the old Tundra buyer market, and there's no one building trucks in their older and smaller "compact truck" line market any more.

That said, for building a new truck from the ground up, I have to say I don't think only having a couple of small recalls is all that bad.

I think the '04 F150 has had four or five recalls; that was the first year of the new body for them.

So far as I can find on the web right now, the '07 F150 has had two recalls, one electrical, and one for the fuel tank.

The '07 Chevy Silverado 1500 has only had one, and that had to do with the towing package Bargman plug being wired wrong.

Just in a quick check, I haven't been able to find anything for the '07 Titans, although I've read that the Titan has been problematic for some drivetrain service issues... althought I can't remember exactly what they were off the top of my head.

So, apparently the other manufacturers aren't doing any better than Toyota. It's just that Toyota had raised the bar so high it's hard for them to meet their own standards.

Roger

juel · 12-15-2007, 12:16 PM

At least Toyota made the recall and didn't try to hide the problem or blame future accidents on "driver error". I too had the ball joint recall on my Tundra. It was fixed quickly by the dealer at no cost to me, except a couple of hours wait. I must agree that I would have a hard time buying the new Tundra because it looks like the other big boxy trucks on the market. I have the step-side which is no longer made. It is a beautiful truck and I continue to get stopped by strangers wanting to know if that's the "new" Tundra design. I also saw the video on the frame type used by Toyota vs. the box frame used by Ford. That was eye opening. Perhaps Toyota will correct their quality control and address the frame issue before I need a new truck.

overlander63 · 12-15-2007, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juel

Perhaps Toyota will correct their quality control and address the frame issue before I need a new truck.

My Ford is 20 years old this year. If your Toyota lasts that long, you can afford to be patient.

juel · 12-15-2007, 02:07 PM

Just to set the record straight, I bought my husband a new Ford F-150, 5.4L Triton V8 as a gift four months ago so I could have my Toyota back and he would not have to drive the Japanese truck. He has been a Ford man his whole life. Have to admit the turning radius is better and it is a very comfortable truck, fun to drive. Bob loves his Fords. I asked him once what he would save first if the house was on fire. He said maybe I better sleep in that little yellow truck to be on the safe side.

Safari-Rick · 12-15-2007, 02:29 PM

lol

85MH325 · 12-15-2007, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juel

He said maybe I better sleep in that little yellow truck to be on the safe side.

Oh, wow... that truck was my very first "car"! A 1950 F-1!!! Flathead V8, granny gear low... wow! That was 1971... that truck was old THEN!

Roger

safari57 · 12-15-2007, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juel

Just to set the record straight, I bought my husband a new Ford F-150, 5.4L Triton V8 as a gift four months ago so I could have my Toyota back and he would not have to drive the Japanese truck. He has been a Ford man his whole life. Have to admit the turning radius is better and it is a very comfortable truck, fun to drive. Bob loves his Fords. I asked him once what he would save first if the house was on fire. He said maybe I better sleep in that little yellow truck to be on the safe side.

I'm liking Bob a LOT.

Barry

juel · 12-15-2007, 06:27 PM

It's a 52 Ford with the original Flathead V8 still in there. And you sure are right about that gear ratio. I keep thinking I need to shift again, but then I'm out of gears. He even has one of those evaporative coolers to fit in the window, for you old folks like me who remember what I'm talking about.

overlander63 · 12-15-2007, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by safari57

I'm liking Bob a LOT.

Barry

Me, too. I had a 1950 F1 that I drove to work in Louisville. I finally pulled out the tired 90 hp flathead and 3 speed, and put in a 351 cleveland and automatic. One of the other engineers talked me into selling it to him, he promptly wrapped it around a tree the next weekend.

chhmiami · 12-15-2007, 07:57 PM

Thanks for the info! I have an 07 Tundra. How do you find out where it was made?

overlander63 · 12-15-2007, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chhmiami

Thanks for the info! I have an 07 Tundra. How do you find out where it was made?

You'll be able to tell by VIN. Give your Toyota dealer a call Monday, and give him your VIN, they'll be able to tell you if it is subject to recall.

Gene · 12-17-2007, 05:50 PM

While I replaced my '02 Tundra specifically because I wanted a Tundra to fit the Airstream I was going to buy, I had no problems with the '02 (except for the ball joint recall—glad to a get a partial front end rebuild for free) and had absolutely no problems with the '99 Tacoma I had before that, or the '00 4Runner my wife had. We buy Toyotas for reliability.

The '07 Tundra is a far superior truck to the '02, but the various issues that are coming up with it and have come up with other Toyotas in recent years are making us wonder. Changing the oil on the 5.7 L. engine was the most difficult I have ever done in 40+ years of doing my own—no way to make friends. No problems for 5,000 miles and tows our 25' Safari FB without problems.

At one time GM made the best mass production cars and trucks and dominated the North American market. They got fat and sloppy. Even though GM is making much better vehicles now, their reputation is still bad and it will take them years to live down their past.

Is Toyota going down the same road? Toyota claimed they were going to fix the problem of expanding faster than they were training QC people several years ago. They acknowledged the problem and I thought their reputation was important to them. Maybe it wasn't; there's still a problem. Toyota still is rated higher than any other truck manufacturer by Consumer Reports. It'll be a while before we're in the market for new vehicles, so we'll see how Toyota responds. Since many people buy Toyotas almost entirely because of reliability, Toyota is in a very vulnerable position.

Gene

Silvertwinkie · 12-17-2007, 06:01 PM

As much as I'd like to say ha ha, the fact is that most of what's out there is pretty good stuff. My '04 Burb has been pretty darn good (though it was assembled in Mexico).

Toyota has lost sight of it's roots, just as many automakers before it. Isn't the first and won't be the last.

Toyota has spread itself thin. They say they aren't looking for the #1 slot, but in reality, that's exactly what they are after, real braggin' rights, and why not? Lots of the vehicles they use to make were top quality stuff. Now, it's not all that it use to be. The good ol days of the folks having a job with the company for life(Toyota, Datsun-now Nissan, Honda, etc) are long gone.

A number of the "foregin" cars are now made here in America. Great for employment, but the same QC issues that are found with the domestics are now starting to really surface with the "imports" made here. Made from the same labor force as the domestics. There is a larger issue here no one really talks about and it has nothing to do with the company or the products per se, has to do with we lazy Americans. Not trying to generalize here, but we as a nation have lost sight of ourselves. There is very little pride in what is done today. There is LOTS of greed to go around and the middle class gets smaller daily and the haves vs the have nots also grows. The auto industry, both foreign and domestic, built here are but just one example. If we are not careful, we will be a service only nation. How could this be? Ever see test scores of our kids compared to the rest of the world? I digress though....

Eventually, Toyota and the others will get it straightened out, but GM is hungry again...so is Ford...don't count them out, and yes, this WILL impact the recovery of the "imports" now that they are being seen as no longer being near perfect vehicles.

Denis4x4 · 12-17-2007, 06:20 PM

I remember when they brought the first brought in Datsuns, Toyopets and the first generation Suzukis into the west coast fifty years ago. These cars were genuine crap. But, since the Japanese factories got government subsidies, the dealers bent over backwards to keep customers satisfied. Any guesses as to how much Honda spent to replace Civic interiors back in the late seventies?

Toyota Dealers keep customers happy because they don't have to discount as there are fewer than 1500 dealerships vs. almost 4000 Ford dealers. State franchise laws prevent the Big 3 from closing marginal dealers. Too, they had product that looked pretty good quality wise compared to the domestic stuff the UAW built in the 80's.

The Japanese DO NOT make better vehicles! However, they do a far better job of handling recalls and making sure the customer is happy.

I refused to co-sign loans for Japanese trucks when my sons were in the market fror new vehicles. Their Rangers have been just as servicable as their friend's Toyotas and Nissans. And far cheaper to repair.

Rollertoaster · 12-17-2007, 06:53 PM

the domestic labor force is pretty good. A while back it was reported that US built Accords had fewer QC issues than Accords built in Japan.

A number of the "foregin" cars are now made here in America. Great for employment, but the same QC issues that are found with the domestics are now starting to really surface with the "imports" made here. Made from the same labor force as the domestics.