View Poll Results: If you were going to buy a new truck would you?
Buy a new 2007 Full Sized Tundra with the 5.7L engine 18 18.75%
Wait until Toyota offered a Diesal Option 20 20.83%
Buy another foreign Brand 1 1.04%
Buy an American Brand 57 59.38%
Voters: 96. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-19-2006, 10:01 AM   #1
4 Rivet Member
 
muddy_hollow's Avatar
 
1965 20' Globetrotter
1956 22' Caravanner
Mendon , Massachusetts
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 468
Send a message via AIM to muddy_hollow Send a message via Yahoo to muddy_hollow
New Toyotas

I don't know if folks have followed the announcements from Toyota on their full size trucks and what is coming out in 2007, but after visiting the dealership this past Sunday I believe we will be seeing a shift in the towing market to include a larger number of these trucks.

Now, I am an owner of a Tundra and a Sequia, and have been very pleased with the performance of both. But, I own vintage trailers so the weight is not an issue. I know from prior discussions that the Toyota offerings are not sufficient for some of the larger, more recent, Airstreams. The new engine will be a 5.7L with an estimated 10K towing capacity, but production may well be at least 12K towing capacity. Also, Toyota signed a deal to include diesal engines which I was told might be out for a 2008 model year.

Take a look at the models being offered and there is one behemoth not listed which looks to be a supercrew cab with 10' bed. wow!! Toyota.com : Vehicles : Future Vehicles : 2007 Toyota Tundra

I'm going out on a limb here and I'm sure I'll hear back from the masses, but I think we will be seeing more and more Toyotas and Nissans towing Airstreams in the coming years.
__________________

__________________
56' Caravanner 'The Broomstick'

muddy_hollow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2006, 12:45 PM   #2
Rivet Master<br><img src="/ugala/forums/images/5rivet.gif">
 
CanoeStream's Avatar

 
2006 25' Safari FB SE
St. Cloud , Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,279
Images: 19
Blog Entries: 3
Good questions all. See the 2007 Toyota Tundra thread for some speculation and dates. We last posted over there on December 7th and there were no specs on the Toyota website. They've now added a downloadable "brochure" that still is short on numbers. Guess we'll have to get closer to the Jan 7th Detroit Auto Show.

This upsized Tundra is clearly an effort at making inroads into the Big 3's dominance in the 1/2-ton market. I was the original Nissan Titan owner on the Forums and sold it eleven months ago because of very small actual payload capacity (1340# with useful tow setup and 4WD). It would have been a good but still limited tow vehicle for my lighter Argosy but hopelessly outclassed with our new (heavier) 25-footer. Nope, Nissan is no competition for the '07 Tundra. The 3/4-ton and 1-ton market is rather small and Toyota may not choose to go there for some years unless fully successful at penetrating the work truck market. Now ... a diesel sooner rather than later might be interesting...

Just don't put too much credit in the '07 Tundra's 10,000# tow capacity until we have a chance to digest a full set of specs.
__________________

__________________
Bob

5 meter Langford Nahanni

CanoeStream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2006, 12:54 PM   #3
Aluminut
 
Silvertwinkie's Avatar
 
2004 25' Safari
. , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,334
I too am interested in what they come up with.

If it has been like many of the foreign trucks in the past that are 1/2 tons with "big tow" packages that really don't provide substantial upgrades from the base, then it will be really no different.

I can tell you that towing 10k with a 5.7L is not really a hot idea. Possible, but not a hot idea. Having owned several 5.7s and a 5.0, at 10k you're really either at Diesel or big block.

Of course engine is but one factor. Transmission upgrade, hub upgrade, rear axle upgrade, etc all are part of the total package.

We'll see what Toyota comes up with. Seems to be a lot of hype and not a whole lot of facts yet so far. I have to admit, if done right, this could be the first real shot over the domestics hoods.
__________________
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
Silvertwinkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2006, 01:05 PM   #4
4 Rivet Member
 
muddy_hollow's Avatar
 
1965 20' Globetrotter
1956 22' Caravanner
Mendon , Massachusetts
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 468
Send a message via AIM to muddy_hollow Send a message via Yahoo to muddy_hollow
towing

Here's what the brochure has:

Towing:
With a towing capacity of well over 10,000 lb,. the new Tundra is engineered to take on the punishment of heavy-duty work. It's engine, transmission, drive shaft, differentials, axles and hubs are all engineered to help optimize towing. Its braking systems, from its massive vented discs to the number of pistons in its fixed calipers, gives you the confidence to stop quickloy. And its integrated tow hitch is mounted far down the frame rails for enhanced strenth and stability.
__________________
56' Caravanner 'The Broomstick'

muddy_hollow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2006, 01:29 PM   #5
Aluminut
 
Silvertwinkie's Avatar
 
2004 25' Safari
. , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by muddy_hollow
Here's what the brochure has:

Towing:
With a towing capacity of well over 10,000 lb,. the new Tundra is engineered to take on the punishment of heavy-duty work. It's engine, transmission, drive shaft, differentials, axles and hubs are all engineered to help optimize towing. Its braking systems, from its massive vented discs to the number of pistons in its fixed calipers, gives you the confidence to stop quickloy. And its integrated tow hitch is mounted far down the frame rails for enhanced strenth and stability.
Thanks for the link, but until the truck specs are actually released and they are production level specs, this all sounds great, but I was also impressed with the Nissian Titan, up until the real truck came out.

I was also impressed with the VW Tourag until that also went up in a puff of smoke.

When it comes out next month is when the real judgements can be made and real world users can report.
__________________
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
Silvertwinkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2006, 02:04 PM   #6
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
how about a caterpillar diesel in that toyota?

haven't read anything about a diesel tundra yet...

but here is a crazy idea...

what IF toyota usa opted for a powerplant from caterpillar?

that would give them almost instant credibility and further nationalize their truck...

dodge has the cummins...

chevy has the gm-izusu

ford has the international haverster....

so where goes the cat?

the f-550? is already available with a cat so there is a relationship between ford and caterpillar now...

and ford sells more diesels per year, that dodge and chevy combined, so they should be able to produce one in house...

except for the 1 billion $ per month cash burn projected for the next 18 months...already.

so IF the updated powerstroke isn't a hit, perhaps we could see a cat in fords...

but a toyota caterpillar is very very interesting, no?

and the poll wording is misleading. the toyota is built in texas and perhaps later indiana...both in the usofa last time i checked...

cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2006, 02:12 PM   #7
4 Rivet Member
 
muddy_hollow's Avatar
 
1965 20' Globetrotter
1956 22' Caravanner
Mendon , Massachusetts
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 468
Send a message via AIM to muddy_hollow Send a message via Yahoo to muddy_hollow
cat

A cat option would be cool.

I read that Toyota bought into Isuzu for the purpose of getting Diesels from them.
__________________
56' Caravanner 'The Broomstick'

muddy_hollow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2006, 02:24 PM   #8
Rivet Master<br><img src="/ugala/forums/images/5rivet.gif">
 
CanoeStream's Avatar

 
2006 25' Safari FB SE
St. Cloud , Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,279
Images: 19
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by muddy_hollow quoting the Toyota Tundra brochure:
With a towing capacity of well over 10,000 lb,. the new Tundra is engineered to take on the punishment of heavy-duty work. It's engine, transmission, drive shaft, differentials, axles and hubs are all engineered to help optimize towing. Its braking systems, from its massive vented discs to the number of pistons in its fixed calipers, gives you the confidence to stop quickly. And its integrated (so what? gotta have it anyway..) tow hitch is mounted far down the frame rails for enhanced strenth and stability.
All the underlined items are hype words meant to make a prospective buyer lower their voice and growl, "R-r-r-right!!" It is marketing smoke and mirrors. Now the new Tundra truly may stand up to all expectations and be a very good truck -- in the face of fuel cost concerns, let's hope manufacturers continue to make adequate tow vehicles available for our use.

I fully agree with Silvertwinkie. Additionally, that dang-fangled brochure also has small type referring to the above paragraph that says,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyota website:
1. Before towing, confirm your vehicle and trailer are compatible, hooked up and loaded properly and that you have any necessary additional equipment. Do not exceed any Weight Ratings and follow all instruction in your Owner's Manual. The maximum you can tow depends on the total weight of any cargo, occupants and available equipment.
2. Payload is the GVWR minus curb weight and includes weight of occupants, optional equipment and cargo, limited by weight distribution. Payload is not the Vehicle Capacity Weight ... which will vary according to installed equipment.
Aye, there's the rub. This small print suggests that more is involved in towing large loads than the previous hype glosses over -- and weight distribution is not the only answer to life's problems. The new Tundra will take some digestion after the actual numbers and other mechanical issues are revealed. Nobody will be towing 10,000+ with one of these. A truck's tow capacity and payload capacity is computed with a 140# driver, no options and quart of gasoline only on board -- no real life loads. Only a few highly selected 1/2-ton trucks/SUVs are well matched to anything near the new, heavier 25' and up Airstreams. Let's wait awhile. Buyer beware -- or eyes wide open.
__________________
Bob

5 meter Langford Nahanni

CanoeStream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2006, 02:56 PM   #9
Craftsman
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Until they offer a diesel in at least a true 3/4 ton they aren't worth considering unless your towing one of Airstreams smallest trailers. Just what is the story with not offering a diesel in the U.S. . Go to the U.K. or Ireland and thats pretty much all they offer. Another insteresting bit of trivia; in South America you can get a Ford Ranger with crew cab and diesel. Better gas mileage more towing power for a small truck, seems like a no brainer?????
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2006, 03:16 PM   #10
Aluminut
 
Silvertwinkie's Avatar
 
2004 25' Safari
. , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craftsman
Until they offer a diesel in at least a true 3/4 ton they aren't worth considering unless your towing one of Airstreams smallest trailers. Just what is the story with not offering a diesel in the U.S. . Go to the U.K. or Ireland and thats pretty much all they offer. Another insteresting bit of trivia; in South America you can get a Ford Ranger with crew cab and diesel. Better gas mileage more towing power for a small truck, seems like a no brainer?????
I tend to agree and Bob's fine print find and thoughts are also right on the money.

Now, Toyota aside, if GM would only put the 2nd gen Duramax into the Burb. That would be a heck of a TV. They currently install them into the 3/4 commerical vans now in front of what looks like a modified 4L80e trans. Granted it's no Allision, but if built right the 4L80e is a heck of a tranny in the gasser lineup.
__________________
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
Silvertwinkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2006, 03:22 PM   #11
Aluminut
 
Silvertwinkie's Avatar
 
2004 25' Safari
. , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,334
BTW, the current CAT engine lineup is really geared toward larger trucks and RVs. Any engine CAT would supply would have to be modified or tweaked to go into a light truck. In some cases CATs engines might be too tall and long for most light trucks currently on the road. If this is actually true, Ford, sinking in RED ink would be hard pressed to get too far into it with CAT at this point, given the dollars they've poured into their stroke.

Sales alone do not make a superior truck, so the comments that Ford outsells the other two combined doesn't hold a lot of weight in my book (even if it is true). Mercedes made some great cars and far superior diesels, yet sold fewer than many manufacs, but it was a superior product in nearly every aspect. GM and Ford OTOH outsold Mercedes by a wide margin (both diesel and otherwise). This reminds me of the old computer sig I use to have that I got from an article back in 1991:

"Computers manuf by companies such as IBM, Compaq, Tandy, and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Mac fans, on the other hand note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form."
__________________
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
Silvertwinkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2006, 05:16 PM   #12
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
10 years ago, caterpillar, in partnership with ford developed a v6 diesel that DID fit in the f-150. they also have powerplants that DO fit in the current superduty...

http://www.osti.gov/bridge/servlets/...ive/771077.pdf

this was part of caterpillars 'light truck clean diesel' program.

more light trucks are now sold in the usa with diesel than with gas powerplants...

this change occured within the last 2 years.

caterpillar continues to develop light truck diesel engine technology...

powerplants that can and do fit inside current light truck engine bays...

my point about ford selling more diesels than ge'em and dodge combined isn't a cockroach or fly or lemming analogy...

the point is because ford sells so many (3-400,000) yearly,
caterpillar may not be able to meet the supply needs easily IF ford wanted cat engines...

toyota on the other hand, has more modest sales projections for the new truck...

so a diesel variant could be supplied by caterpillar without the need to construct a new plant....

as for diesels world wide, bmw is a good example of this...

70% of bmws sold in the world are diesel...yet none are available here.

emissions standards and the lack of ulsd were at the root of this...

along with consumer indifference here toward diesel cars...

now that urea technology, particulate filters and ulsd are in full deveolpment and already available...

vw, mb, bmw, and others have diesel powerplants on slate for the usa...

mercedes and volkswagen have signed on to use the 'bluetec' approach...

toyota will do diesels too...

Clearing the Smoke on Diesel

so my original speculation...

wouldn't it be cool IF a cat were in the new toyota trucks...

and how might that effect the voting for a diesel toyota truck...

the topic of this thread.

cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2006, 05:23 PM   #13
Patriotic
 
Chuck's Avatar

 
1973 23' Safari
North of Boston , Massachusetts
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,533
Images: 260
It was not many years ago that dodge offered the old standard "318"...or 5.2L engine as the powerplant in their 3/4 ton truck.
__________________
Air:291
Wbcci: 3752
'73 Safari 23'
'00 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 QC
Chuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2006, 05:49 PM   #14
4 Rivet Member
 
Roscinante's Avatar
 
2006 19' Safari
Suisun City , California
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 291
Images: 7
It IS American!

While it would be nice if Toyota manufactured a REAL full-sized truck with a diesel option, people should realize that Toyotas ARE an "American" brand. They are made right here in California and Tennessee by Americans. Some so-called "American namplates" actually are manufactured overseas and assembled here.

I was a Ford person for years including TWO pickups. But, I drive the Tacoma now. There is no comparison (to me) of the quality and value between the two. Toyota wins hands down (and my local dealers are better).

IMHO...

__________________

__________________
Roscinante

Jerry and Avis
2006 Safari Bambi 19'
2005 Toyota Tacoma PU

"Mi Casa Es Su Casa!"
WBCCI #6716
AIR #17388
Roscinante is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anyone tow with toyota tundras ? Mrcrowley Tow Vehicles 26 06-09-2006 02:09 AM
tow vehicles paul k Tow Vehicles 96 01-19-2003 10:59 PM
sky high prices overlander Our Community 17 10-09-2002 04:52 PM
1972 Tradewind plentycrafty Our Community 2 09-20-2002 09:50 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.