New Toyotas

[Silvertwinkie]

That Asian company wouldn't happen to be Komatsu would it? When I was in sales, we use to sell a lot of computer equipment to them about 10 years ago....there were growing by leaps and bounds.....

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by overlander63

What a lot of folks don't know is that Caterpillar has been controlled by Asian (I think Japanese) interests for around 20 years. It is very possible that Toyota may strike a deal with Cat for a light-duty truck diesel engine.

well i figured someone would catch this eventually...

but terry u r 2 sharp, and so quick to the trigger!

it's been 40 years of partnership, and 20 since the formal merger...

Caterpillar Dealer Identity: Customer Loyalty and an Extraordinary Partnership Design Management Review

last week someone posted a survey that showed how u.s. buyers are influenced by brand name;

especially in the truck market...

http://www.airforums.com/forum...ic-28479.html?

the brand name has got to play in peoria and cat' sure does...

no not komatsu...

surely you've seen new cat's with the purple logo?

SCB LTD.

so i guess suggesting a cat'yota wasn't so crazy...


cheers
2air'

[moosetags]

Originally Posted by wjboswell

Hi,

We are just new to trailers and will likely close the deal this week on a new 27' Safari FB. We are trying to decide between the 4Runner with a 7,000 lb tow capacity, the Lexus GX470 with a 6,500 tow capacity or an Explorer or Durango (not the Hemi since it is too thirsty).

The trailer's weight is 5,400 and we travel very light. Does anyone have a suggestion on a vehicle from the choices above? We like the Lexus since it is just a couple of thousand $ more than the 4Runner. We also like the reliability of the Toyota/Lexus products.

We have never towed anything before and would really appreciate some advice. We live in Ontario and plan trips to Alaska and western Canada and the US.

Thank you.

To tow with either of these will crate a very marginal towing experience. You will probably be a very unhappy camper. What you are proposing will create yet another very expensive piece of yard art.

[SRoffe]

Originally Posted by wjboswell

Hi,

We are just new to trailers and will likely close the deal this week on a new 27' Safari FB. We are trying to decide between the 4Runner with a 7,000 lb tow capacity, the Lexus GX470 with a 6,500 tow capacity or an Explorer or Durango (not the Hemi since it is too thirsty).

The trailer's weight is 5,400 and we travel very light. Does anyone have a suggestion on a vehicle from the choices above? We like the Lexus since it is just a couple of thousand $ more than the 4Runner. We also like the reliability of the Toyota/Lexus products.

We have never towed anything before and would really appreciate some advice. We live in Ontario and plan trips to Alaska and western Canada and the US.

Thank you.

If the 27 FB has the same specs as the 25 FB then the Gross Vehicle Weight is 7,300 pounds. 5400 would be empty, so you need to include your water, propane, and what you provision it with. You can easily exceed your Tow Vehicle tow rating real quick. This will become not only a comfort issue, but, a safety issue.

We just purchased the Safari 25 FB and replace our 1/2 ton Suburban with a GMC 3/4 ton truck. As much as I would have liked to have a suburban, it made more sense to me to have the truck and power of a bigger engine. I am very pleased with my decision, especially with the diesel option.

If you are concerned about fuel economy, you might want to investigate a truck with a diesel engine.

Sam Roffe

[bobkelly]

Originally Posted by wjboswell

Hi,

We are just new to trailers and will likely close the deal this week on a new 27' Safari FB. We are trying to decide between the 4Runner with a 7,000 lb tow capacity, the Lexus GX470 with a 6,500 tow capacity or an Explorer or Durango (not the Hemi since it is too thirsty).

The trailer's weight is 5,400 and we travel very light. Does anyone have a suggestion on a vehicle from the choices above? We like the Lexus since it is just a couple of thousand $ more than the 4Runner. We also like the reliability of the Toyota/Lexus products.

We have never towed anything before and would really appreciate some advice. We live in Ontario and plan trips to Alaska and western Canada and the US.

Thank you.

Welcome to the airstream fraternity. You are doing the right thing to educate yourself before you buy. There is a ton of info here on sizing the tow vehicle to handle the task at hand safely and efficiently. The search feature will bring this info to you.

The tone of the comments from others is telling you the 27 ft trailer is too long and heavy for the vehicles you have in mind. If the 27 ft is the one, then the alternative is to look to longer, heavier, and more powerful tow vehicles.

One key trailer value to use in your eval process is the GVW. In your case, perhaps 7300#. Review of posts here show that folks struggle to not exceed the GVW. In recent years, Airsteam is well known for providing a very modest wt allowance for personal stuff. Consider weighting the unit before you buy to see the effects of the various options already in place. It's a real eye opener. Only costs $10 or so at a commercial CAT scale and very valuable in sizing your truck purchase.

My personal experience is with a 22ft model with a GVW of 5600#. I tow with a GMC Yukon, 6.0L, 340 HP and 380 #ft of torque rated to tow about 8000#. Used mostly in the intermountain west at elevations and temperatures that reduce the effective capability of the engine from its rated values. This combo works well together, but there have been an occasion or two where it was evident that this combo was reaching its limit. If I were to go to a longer, heavier trailer, I'd absolutely change the tow vehicle too. Something like a 3/4 ton surburban with a big block gas engine or the duramax/allison combo if they would build it.

Welcome aboard and let us know how you like your new rig.

[wingfoot321]

Overlander63,

Where did you get your info on Cat ownership by a foreign company? I have a particular interest and would like to followup.

[muddy_hollow]

Originally Posted by myoung

The specs suggest that the 27 FB is virtually identical to the 25 FB that we have. If that is the case, I would seriously doubt that you would be satisfied with SUVs masquerading as tow vehicles. The Durango is built on a truck frame so it is capable but not without the 5.7 liter Hemi. You may be shortchanging yourself unless you go for substance over style and certainly torque matters along with the full tow package with its various extra coolers and heavy-duty components. Good luck, but don't be fooled by marketing brochures.

I have to agree. Friends of ours tow with a Nissan and are more or less happy with it, as long as their are no mountains. Rich Luhr tows with a Nissan and I'm assuming he is pleased with it so far, at least his blog doesn't say otherwise.

The towing capacity on the current Toyota line-up is a little small for a 27' IMHO and I own both the Tundra and Sequia. (yes, Exxon loves me). I would tow a 22' but I would not be keen on going larger. I always liked the idea of staying at least < 75% of the max towing capacity.

I think if I had allot more money and wanted a bling ride for towing, I would seriously look at the Range Rover Sport HSE. 400HP and a 7700lb towing capacity. Mind you I own vintage so the weight is not as much of an issue for the longer trailers. Alas, my cup is empty

[Streamer1]

I can't wait to hear the reviews on the new Tundra. Seems like it will be a highly capable 1/2 ton truck. From my experience (06 Nissan Titan), I would not tow a 25' Airstream with less than a 3/4 ton truck. After all your cargo, personnel, supplies, etc... are added in a 1/2 ton truck, it is not in my estimation a comfortable tow experience. A 3/4 ton (I have an 06 PSD) provides you with a greater margin of comfort and safety in my opinion.

[nvestysly]

Ford, GM, Dodge, etc. (aka domestic) Toyota, Nissan, etc. (aka import). It's not really an issue of the brand, where it's made, or who owns the company. We live in a global environment - Wally Byam forsaw the "shrinking of the globe" many years ago. The real issue is whether the tow vehicle is equipped to safely tow the trailer.

Taking time now to really understand the trailer and tow vehicle ratings is the key. Don't be fooled by published numbers. It's not that the numbers are wrong or deceitful but manufacturers don't always publish the same information. Take time to understand the rating, what's included, what is not. Add the numbers yourself - don't trust a salesman to give you the correct information. The salesman probably won't even work at the dealership next month.

[Chuck]

yeah. my friends with the nissan and a 30-foot late model a/s met me at a toll booth last summer on the way to a rally...they pulled away and left me in the dust....me and my REAL (american?) 1/2-ton with the shorty vintage trailer. what a piece of crap those foreign trucks are.

[classic67]

The decision was very easy for me when considering a TV. Ford was the only manufactuerer that included everything I needed. A V8 Diesel engine (made by Navistar), Crew Cab (4 doors) with lots of interior space and comfort leather seats for the family, 8 foot bed over a 172" LWB, 3/4 Ton w/12.5k tow capacity and a 23k combined weight capacity, integrated Trailer brake control system that works great. The truck pulls our 31' Classic like it was a feather. I couldn't be happier. Nissan, Toyota or Honda have nothing that can pull that weight. Almost bought the Dodge with the cummings engine, but liked the Ford better with the integrated brake control and the better feeling seats.

My wife and I owned two toyotas in the past. I had an '87 pickup that went 93k before the tranny went. I liked that truck for light-duty use, but the tranny shouldn't have quit like it did - I am very easy on all my vehicles.

My wife had an '89 Corolla that needed the top-end of the engine rebuilt due to carbon build-up at 41 kmiles. (Toyota said out of warranty - offered no help). Estimate for repair was $2,700. We didn't fix it, we traded instead. We've been driving Fords ever since, a brand I grew up with just about, save for a Rambler, a few other AMC's and one Chevrolet in between there somewhere. We replaced our '94 Taurus with 211k and no problems to speak of except a power window regulator on the left rear door that stuck, with a '05 freestar.

All of these cars and truck are machines and need care and attention to their maintianance schedule, no matter the name badge on the trunk lid. We like our local dealer, get very good deals and the service shop is tops. I can't ask for any more value for my time and money. And isn't that what it's really about?

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by chuck

yeah. my friends with the nissan and a 30-foot late model a/s met me at a toll booth last summer on the way to a rally...they pulled away and left me in the dust....me and my REAL (american?) 1/2-ton with the shorty vintage trailer. what a piece of crap those foreign trucks are.

Well, Chuck, you do have a Dodge whatdidya expect..... (Ok, my flame suit is on).

In all seriousness though....

Pulling away and leaving one in the dust would not be one of my qualifications for a decent tow vehicle. I say this in all honesty. My Impala SS would take the Safari from zero to warp 7 in about 13 seconds, compared to the normal 7.5 seconds without the Safari, but it wasn't safe. My 2500 Burb, takes maybe 6 more extra seconds than the SS did towing, but the issues of wheelbase, the trailer towing the tow vehicle are not an issue.

I personally feel that the "imports" are great vehicles, of this I think few would disagree. Where the issue gets touchy is can and/or should it tow and if so, up to way level? Look at the Intrepid/34' Airstream situation. Safe? No. Will it move it? Sure. Is that towing? Not by a longshot.

Well said Dennis. At this point in time the imports simply can't compare to the domestic trucks.I owned a Toyota pick up and they are better suited to hauling a jet ski or taking the trash to the dump. Plus they are more expensive for what you get and I think it's more the mystique that somehow they are more reliable ,comes from the early Corollas. As for Nissan the interiors have always seemed cheap and plasticy to me and I've owned those too. At this point in time, I don't think the imports have anything on the domestics. Maybe at one time they did but they offer less now, unless you just prefer the styling.I now own a Ford F350 diesel crew cab, Now thats a truck.

I also, want to say that I worked for Land Rover and the Range Rover is not a serious tow vehicle. In fact the Range Rover has one of worst reliability records of almost any SUV made. Your heated windsheild washers and vibrating seats aren't any good when your sitting on the side of the road wating for the tow truck.

[Chuck]

yeah, but we're not comparing a truck to an impala; we're comparing a truck to a truck. Titan vs. Ram 1500 or other half-ton. Saying an f350 can out-do a titan is irrelevant. of course it can. So can a mack tractor.

But saying that a Titan isn't even really a half-ton is just wrong. It has the same wheel base. It weights about the same. The payload is about the same. It is "rated" to tow 2000lbs MORE. Its got WAY more horsepower and torque, and has a beefier rear-end.

but its not "really" a half-ton?????? And my Dodge is because....it was made in mexico???

the bias is glaring so brightly, I gotta wear shades...

[ALANSD]

Originally Posted by wjboswell

Hi,

We are just new to trailers and will likely close the deal this week on a new 27' Safari FB. We are trying to decide between the 4Runner with a 7,000 lb tow capacity, the Lexus GX470 with a 6,500 tow capacity or an Explorer or Durango (not the Hemi since it is too thirsty).

The trailer's weight is 5,400 and we travel very light. Does anyone have a suggestion on a vehicle from the choices above? We like the Lexus since it is just a couple of thousand $ more than the 4Runner. We also like the reliability of the Toyota/Lexus products.

We have never towed anything before and would really appreciate some advice. We live in Ontario and plan trips to Alaska and western Canada and the US.

Thank you.

SEARCH OUT THREADS ON TOW VEHICLES...You will find that those particular SUVs are in use but not very highly thought of for a trailer like the on eyou are getting. A 3/4 ton truck, or an Excursion diesel or v10 would be much more appropriate. The used Excursions are very good buys now, ( I just got one) as they are no longer produced.

[Bob Thompson]

Speculation of a Cat diesel in a Toyota Tundra, althought very amusing, is silly and a clever highjacking of the thread. If Toyota decides to put a diesel in their Tundra, they don't have to go to Cat, all they have to do is go to their own HINO medium duty truck line and pick out a good engine. For example, their turbocharged JO8E-TA inline 6 cylinder engine and auto transmission would be a good choice. It produces 220 hp and 520 ft. lbs of torque at 1500 RPM. That is very adequate power and torque at low RPM's for most of our towing needs with good fuel economy. Or they could step up one notch to the JO8E-TB which produces 260 hp.and 585 ft.lbs. of torque at 1500 RPMS. Still better, the Hino's are already mated to Allison transmissions. Cat indeed......nice highjacking!

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by chuck

yeah, but we're not comparing a truck to an impala; we're comparing a truck to a truck.[/B]

I respectfully and completely disagree with the notion that the "B" platform is not comparing apples to apples. Maybe different size apples, but still apples, nonetheless. When one says it left me in the dust, one can take that a number of ways. My Impala SS will, without question out tow any Titan out there today that is a factory built machine every day of the week and twice on Sunday. That may sound all neat and cool, until you get bigger than a 23' trailer in high winds and that is where the limitations of the 1/2 ton start to show.

The "B" platform on which the Impala SS, Caprice (Classic), Roadmaster and Caddy Fleetwood is based, is basically a 1/2 ton car. If you look at the half ton Tahoe, or Suburban, you WILL find very similar, if not near identical components (4L60e, 8.5 gearing, body on frame construction (at one point similar sized engines). One of the MAIN reasons the "B" platform was discontinued was because folks like me were buying these cars instead of trucks, which were more profitable, so they closed the Arlington, TX plant, retooled and made more profitable trucks (or at least did) out of the same plant, except with no more "B" (and "D" Fleetwood) body cars, since late 1996, where all body on frame car production stopped and has never returned.

I fully agree that the Titan is a 1/2 ton truck and do not discount it for it's merits as a 1/2 ton truck. I have no direct towing exp, but I would think that it would be far more useful in towing more than a jet ski. Towing 25 or more feet of trailer? Given the specs they share of the big tow pacakge that magically brings it to it's stated rating? That's where I start to get uncomfortable and why I went with a genuine 3/4 ton light truck/SUV.

[Silvertwinkie]

As for the point of this whole thread.....I'm taking a wait and see attitude toward the new Toyota offering coming out next month. We may all be welcoming the first real 3/4 truck, or will see MOTS (more of the same) that we've already seen. I'm keeping an open mind until I get more detailed info.

[muddy_hollow]

Originally Posted by Craftsman

I also, want to say that I worked for Land Rover and the Range Rover is not a serious tow vehicle. In fact the Range Rover has one of worst reliability records of almost any SUV made. Your heated windsheild washers and vibrating seats aren't any good when your sitting on the side of the road wating for the tow truck.

I know, it's not a serious anyting except if you think of it as seriously expenseive

I thought it would look pisser towing my 56'. Again, if I had more money than sense, maybe I would a new rover.

My thought on Yota's trucks is that if they strike out again with the full sized market, there will be little room for recovery. But after seeing how the company has out gunned the "American" brands I think they might actually build a winner. As others, I'm keeping an open mind and frankly would welcome a killer full sized toyota. Maybe it would spur the other brands to come up with some decent products.... ouch Bob Dole would hate me!!