New Toyota Diesel

[safari62]

KickingTires: Toyota Plans Diesel V-8 for Tundra, Sequoia

[Igor68]

I'm first in line.... can't wait for these.

[TIMEMACHINE]

The Diesel Wars are alive and active on the planet.

time

[jdalrymple]

Interesting statment about a cellulose source for ethanol. Corn ain't gonna fly, IMHO. Thanks for the info.

[Kajtek1]

The title should be "New in USA".
I've seen Toyota diesel 4-runners in Europe 30 years ago.
It is about time America catch up.

[TIMEMACHINE]

Originally Posted by Kajtek1

The title should be "New in USA".
I've seen Toyota diesel 4-runners in Europe 30 years ago.
It is about time America catch up.

Does Europe have the same or more stringent emission requirements, if they are less, I could understand why we have fewer diesels, but if they are equal or better, you have a great point.

[Kajtek1]

You are opening a can of worms here. Diesels have been always much cleaner engines than gassers. That's why all diesel cars ever sold new in California don't have to have catalic converters.
Diesel emits different pollution, what IMHO gave oil companies excuse to force banning them here in last decade.
Why would an oil company want you to drive 40-70 mpg car, when you can drive 7 mpg Hummer?

[jdalrymple]

Originally Posted by Kajtek1

You are opening a can of worms here. Diesels have been always much cleaner engines than gassers. That's why all diesel cars ever sold new in California don't have to have catalic converters.
Diesel emits different pollution, what IMHO gave oil companies excuse to force banning them here in last decade.
Why would an oil company want you to drive 40-70 mpg car, when you can drive 7 mpg Hummer?

Well put. Diesels are nearly 30% more thermally efficient than any gasoline engine. Making bio-diesel is much easier as well.

[TIMEMACHINE]

Originally Posted by Kajtek1

You are opening a can of worms here. Diesels have been always much cleaner engines than gassers. That's why all diesel cars ever sold new in California don't have to have catalic converters.
Diesel emits different pollution, what IMHO gave oil companies excuse to force banning them here in last decade.
Why would an oil company want you to drive 40-70 mpg car, when you can drive 7 mpg Hummer?

Hi Kajtek,

I was not asking if diesels were cleaner than gassers, I was asking if Europe has the same emission standards, or less/more stringent than the US, including California which has typically been the toughest in the US. I can't see that question leading to a can of worms.

[Kajtek1]

Which country would you like to compare and to which state?
As far as I know lot of states have no diesel car emission standards?
The 5 diesel vehicles I own in California are all exempt.

[TIMEMACHINE]

Originally Posted by Kajtek1

Which country would you like to compare and to which state?
As far as I know lot of states have no diesel car emission standards?
The 5 diesel vehicles I own in California are all exempt.

Ok, lets compare Germany and California. I believe Germany would be a good comparison since it has been a strong environment for auto technology and California because it may have the most friggin rules in the US.

By the way, I share your condemnation of the greedy oil companies, at least I think we agree. I also agree that technology progress is many times delayed or abandoned due to "corporate" profit motives and the ol' "we have to do what is best for the stockholders". It is shameful.

After we hash out this we should get back to the main thread topic, although I believe this is related.

time

[CanoeStream]

TIME - I remember hearing in the ULSD battles that Europe had an 8ppm sulfur standard. Compromising with complaining Big Oil caused the U.S. to settle for the current 15ppm sulfur standard for ULSD. This doesn't address the 2nd diesel problem of particulates -- but 25% of the particulates in L.A.'s sky come from China. It's a complex issue to say the least. The most stringent standards anywhere are probably California's as you know. That makes the Toyota statement that started this thread interesting if these diesels can truly be 50-state engines -- which is one of the reasons Detroit has said they won't jump willy-nilly into diesel. So hopefully Toyota can prove it can be done.

Jeff - Yes, there is not enough corn acreage in the U.S. to have corn ethanol put a dent in our fuel demand. Interesting that I've seen subsidized soy diesel widely available in Illinois. But that would probably hit the same supply shortfall as corn ethanol.

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by Kajtek1

Which country would you like to compare and to which state?
As far as I know lot of states have no diesel car emission standards?
The 5 diesel vehicles I own in California are all exempt.

All new diesels sold in the US now have both catalytic converters and EGR valves, in all 50 states. Diesels have always been cleaner, however until recently had higher sulfer contents...

You can read more about it here:

Diesel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I agree, that the US has been lacking in diesel technology for some time, but until recently there has been little point to do the R and D on it.

It all boils down to the almightly dollar. When it's economically feasible or legislation forces everyone to do it, they'll git 'er done, until the...status quo.

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by TIMEMACHINE

...I was not asking if diesels were cleaner than gassers, I was asking if Europe has the same emission standards, or less/more stringent than the US....

no they don't have the 'same e. standards'...

the parameters for emissions are different, and mostly the u.s. has been behind europe (not asia) on this issue....

ulsd fuel has been in use many more years in europe, while we are still just getting 2 it...

so we've got more sulfur still while they've worried less about 'particulates' and nitrates are still a small issue for all of us...

but e85 is WAY more nasty than most folks understand, besides being a low btu fuel.

otoh SUPPORT and INCENTIVES for using diesel technology are also much greater in europe.

they've understood the energy content issue of diesel fuels and the vehicle makers have had much greater support for diesel technology...

just like cali-crooksnkooks effectively killed mass transit 50 years ago, they've stifled better fuels...

in the spirit that all good monopolist do!

a toyota diesel is very welcome, but the platform needs more beef 2 pull my 6 wheel pig!

cheers
2air'

[Kajtek1]

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

I agree, that the US has been lacking in diesel technology for some time, but until recently there has been little point to do the R and D on it.

It all boils down to the almightly dollar. When it's economically feasible or legislation forces everyone to do it, they'll git 'er done, until the...status quo.

I translate your highlighted opinion as "Corporate oil had no point of allowing fuel conserving diesels, promoting 7 mpg monsters instead".
Why would they want to produce clean diesel fuel?
50 states compliant Bluetec diesels are on the roads for few years already.

[maxandgeorgia]

Speaking of corn shortfall, I'm seeing many fields that have been pasture for ages, now turned over for spring planting--more likely corn for ethanol than for corn flakes. Other friends who had acreage in the crp program for a while are now planting to corn--for ethanol. If this upsurge in corn acreage is as widespread as I think it is, that's an interesting impact.

[Goin camping]

Originally Posted by maxandgeorgia

Speaking of corn shortfall, I'm seeing many fields that have been pasture for ages, now turned over for spring planting--more likely corn for ethanol than for corn flakes. Other friends who had acreage in the crp program for a while are now planting to corn--for ethanol. If this upsurge in corn acreage is as widespread as I think it is, that's an interesting impact.

Also interesting is that prices paid to graze cattle have gone up as has the feed prices for other livestock. Nows a good time to raise hay and provide graze.

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by Kajtek1

I translate your highlighted opinion as "Corporate oil had no point of allowing fuel conserving diesels, promoting 7 mpg monsters instead".
Why would they want to produce clean diesel fuel?
50 states compliant Bluetec diesels are on the roads for few years already.

I was talking more along the lines of the big three not really putting the R & D up for putting cars or engines out there until the fleet averages were raised, gas prices skyrocketed and their most profitable vehicles, the gas guzzling truck sales tanked.

Now that gas is over $3 a gallon, you are starting to see more truck hybrids on their way, better MPG and rumblings of both electric cars and more diesels. None of this would have happened if gas had not stayed over $2. We'd have gone right back to the status quo of 10mpg trucks with about $10 profit per vehicle.

I blame the oil compaies for a good portion of it, but really, it's the market players that short and long it. One word from Iran and it hits $100 barrel. I recall back before Gulf War I, we were paying .99/gallon...seems like only yesterday.