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Old 09-14-2014, 01:05 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Road Ruler View Post
Hi Tom... When you switch tire types was there a noticeable difference in the towing experience? Thnxs
Whether it is actual or perceived, I feel that the "softness" or wiggle in the tires has been reduced when hitched up. The prior tires (Pirelli Scorpions) are known to provide a pretty soft ride.

Additionally, a more aggressive tread, combined with more flexibility on running pressures, the E-range tires just in general feel more stable.

When switching, I considered the staying with the stock size and P-rating, but a different make. However, I decided to move to the higher ply, more rigid E tires. Load-wise, with the 23FB, the stock tires were definitely sufficient and I had no concern there.

For reference, the new tires are Cooper Discoverer At/3's.

Tom
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Old 09-14-2014, 01:08 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by rostam View Post
Just FYI, there are no standards for calculating the payload. Many people make purchases based on the published payload only to realize the actual payload is much less (sometimes hundreds of pounds less). I really hope, now that the SAE towing standards are adopted by most car companies, SAE focuses on defining a payload standard. Enough people have been screwed by the lack of a standard.

Some manufacturers include a 150# driver, and some don't. Most do not include a full tank of gas/diesel. Options and accessories are not included. Ford apparently removes the spare and the rear bumper before calculating the payload (this is not a joke). GM decided to follow suit, there was an uproar, so they stopped, but Ford apparently still has that practice (they spun it like 'our customers want that' or something).

The most accurate way is to go to CAT scale and weigh your truck and subtract the value from GVWR.

I think your setup is fine, unless you travel VERY heavy.
The flap about Ford removing the rear bumper and spare tire pertains to the SuperDuty, not the F150. The SuperDuty is available in that configuration (though no one actually buys it that way) so they used that as cover to get the payload number they wanted and not exceed the GVWR cap for Class 3.

Ford includes full fuel and a 150 lb driver when calculating payload on an F150.
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Old 09-14-2014, 01:23 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by danandmimi View Post
Hi!

~~
We have a 2013 F-150 3.5L V6 SCREW as the TV. Our F-150 comes with the trailer tow package, and the heavy duty suspension. However, it does not come with 'MAX Trailer Tow Package'. According to Ford's website, the payload for the vehicle is 1570 LBS, with a GVWR of 7200.

~~
I'm curious about what "heavy duty suspension" you have. Is this a modification? The Heavy Duty Payload option includes Max Tow and would have 7-lug rims, I don't know what other heavy duty suspension option they offered.

In any event, unless you're trying to carry a bunch of lead in the truck box I think you'll do fine. You may find that you want to upgrade the tires (as has been mentioned elsewhere in the thread) if the P-rated factory tires are a little squishy for you when towing. While towing you'll likely want to increase the air pressure in the tires at least, to the higher range listed on the door tag or the sidewall max. Even if you have the worst axle ratio available (3.15:1) the truck is rated for it's rated for towing 8800 lb, but from the numbers you quoted I think you have the 4x4 which didn't get the 3.15, it started at 3.31:1.
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Old 09-14-2014, 02:03 PM   #18
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Ford, GM and Dodge seem to include a 150lb driver and full tank of gas on all their half tons from my research when deciding to buy our tow vehicle.

Where they get payload from and how they come up with GVWR is what is not really standard. I know we all say GVWR - the dry weight, but..... Frankly I would love to hear an engineering explanation. I know different axles, 4x4 vs 2x4 and locking vs open plays a difference but.... I think there is some purposeful fudging of numbers taking place.

Let's compare a my Ram 1500 to my neighbors F150

His F150 has a GVWR of 7600lbs, his axles are rated at Front GAWR 3750lbs and Rear GAWR 3850lbs for a total of 7700lbs or 100lbs over the stated GVWR.

His payload is 1534lbs

Now check this out, I found a guy online with a similar truck:


GVWR 7800lbs, rear axle is a little more than the other one. But when you add up the front and rear axles, even though they are different than the first F150 I posted, they add up to 100lbs over GVWR.



Now, some Dodge folks can verify this. It seems from discussion with other Dodge Owners, that all Dodge Ram 1500's are rated at 6800lbs GVWR.

Both my front and rear GAWR is 3900lbs which amounts to 7800lbs.

That's 1000lbs over the GVWR on the Dodge side compared to Ford's 100lbs.

Consistently Dodge gets hammered for having lower payload ratings than Ford & GM. But I wonder if that's not true.

Many here have commented that payload is only secondary to making sure you are not overloading the front and rear axle.

So the question is, why did Dodge come up with a set GVWR for all their trucks, while Fords moves all over? Why 1000lbs vs 100lbs?

Anyone have any ideas or a theory?
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Old 09-14-2014, 02:23 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by danandmimi View Post
* The dealer has told me the weight distribution hitch will lighten the tongue weight considerably - is this true? I have assumed no.
** Thoughts on this assumption?
Use of a WDH does not change the "tongue weight", per se.
However, the vertical load imposed on the TV will be reduced.

A properly sized and properly adjusted WDH can transfer a load equal to about 25% of the tongue weight to the TT's axles.
This means the vertical load imposed on the TT can be equal to about 75% of the TW.
For your estimated 700# TW, the WDH can reduce the imposed load by about 175#.

After accounting for the weight of the WDH (about 75#), the net savings in load is about 100# for this case.

Ron
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Old 09-14-2014, 02:25 PM   #20
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DKB-STAX: the heavy duty suspension may just be something the Ford customer service people told me, as I can't tie it out to any of the paperwork I have on the truck. The axle ratio is 3.55 rear locking.

Thanks for the input! Sounds like LT tires and a good WD hitch are two upgrades to improve safety, which we will surely do!

Thanks!


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Old 09-14-2014, 02:25 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by DKB_SATX View Post
The flap about Ford removing the rear bumper and spare tire pertains to the SuperDuty, not the F150. The SuperDuty is available in that configuration (though no one actually buys it that way) so they used that as cover to get the payload number they wanted and not exceed the GVWR cap for Class 3.

Ford includes full fuel and a 150 lb driver when calculating payload on an F150.
Here is a link to 2014 F150's manual:

2014 Ford F-150 Owner’s Manual & Maintenance Guides | Official Ford Owner Site

From page 182 to 183 of the manual:

Steps for determining the correct load limit:

1. Locate the statement "The combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed XXX kg or XXX lb." on your vehicle’s placard.

2. Determine the combined weight of the driver and passengers that will be riding in your vehicle.

3. Subtract the combined weight of the driver and passengers from XXX kg or XXX lb.

4. The resulting figure equals the available amount of cargo and luggage load capacity....

Also, I was making a general comment about the lack of standards in deciding payload :-)
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Old 09-14-2014, 04:07 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by rostam View Post
Just FYI, there are no standards for calculating the payload. Many people make purchases based on the published payload only to realize the actual payload is much less (sometimes hundreds of pounds less). I really hope, now that the SAE towing standards are adopted by most car companies, SAE focuses on defining a payload standard. Enough people have been screwed by the lack of a standard.
SAE has defined a standard for TV base weight.

SAE J2807 contains the following:

3.2 TOW-VEHICLE TRAILERING WEIGHT (TVTW)

3.2.1 Tow-vehicles Under 8500 lb GVWR

TVTW is the weight of the tow-vehicle used for EPA emissions and fuel economy certification including all options in excess of 33% sales penetration plus one 68.0 kg (150 lb) driver and one 68.0 kg (150 lb) front seat passenger, plus the tow-vehicle manufacturer’s available trailering package and/or any required trailering content (if not included in the 33% option penetration weight) plus representative aftermarket trailering equipment as specified in 5.2. In the case where a trailering package is not available from the tow-vehicle manufacturer or it does not include a trailer hitch component, the representative aftermarket trailering equipment as specified in 5.2 shall include a trailer hitch component.


However, this base weight parameter is not intended to reflect the actual delivered weight of any particular vehicle. It only defines a base weight to be used for compliance testing purposes.

As pointed out, "payload" information can be obtained from the "maximum weight of occupants and cargo" value found on the TIRE AND LOADING INFORMATION sticker on the driver's door edge or pillar.
Better yet, load the TV as it would be loaded for camping -- including the weight of the WDH -- and head for a scales.
The TV's GVWR minus the measured loaded weight gives the amount of payload available for trailer-induced vertical load.
And when using a WDH, the vertical load might be 20-30% less than the TT's tongue weight.

Ron
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Old 09-14-2014, 05:45 PM   #23
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Take your vin number to the dealer parts dept and they can give you a build sheet. This will tell you all about your truck. I would be a little concerned with the v6, but otherwise get a WD sway hitch and go for it. Tires should not be p rated if possible. Jim
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