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Old 07-14-2007, 07:37 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

One thing I would wholeheartedly agree with is that Ford needs some hits or they will be in a real pickle. GM isn't too far behind. I think they finally realized the Asians are at the door and about to put diesels in their 1/2 tonners.
When it comes to trucks, Ford is in good shape. Their deisel heavy duty pickups are the best selling of the big three. Granted, deisels in 1/2 tons is way overdue. I can soon see myself in a new pickup.
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Old 07-14-2007, 09:05 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
When it comes to trucks, Ford is in good shape. Their deisel heavy duty pickups are the best selling of the big three. Granted, deisels in 1/2 tons is way overdue. I can soon see myself in a new pickup.
That's not what I've been hearing lately. I've read that they have had sales decreases, as have the others compared to sales this time last year.

"The company said sales of its F-Series pickup slipped 0.5 percent."
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Old 07-14-2007, 09:13 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by pattersontoo
If you remember, GM made an electric car back in the early 90's. I still see several of them on the road here in Detroit. They did not sell. We would not buy them. Why would a company want to make something that no one wants to buy?
Usually I totally agree with you, but if you are talking about the EV1, those cars were all crushed. Unless you have protoype Volts running around.......

People, even back then begged GM to sell them the EV1 cars that were called back on lease. I am not sure I fully agree with the quoted statement above unless there are other cars running around Detroit, but if thats the case, they should be everywhere.

Moreover, GM has been talking about the Volt and how the batteries are the issue....frankly, that too is a farce, the EV1 batteries lasted well over 40 miles and the technology is OVER 10 years old.

As for the SUV/Trucks, yer right on, they built us what we wanted and made about $10k per truck I heard on average. Now we want electric plug-ins and Hybrids and the big three are woefully playing catch up...sad part is as I said, they had the technology, yet we have to wait for a plug-in Hybrid until 2010? Guess what Toyota sells thousands of Hybrids every month and they are going to come out with a plug-in too, same as GM already had out and again, beat GM and the other domestics to the punch, sadly, as they did with Hybrids. Frankly this shouldn't shock anyone, because the big three are slow to change.

As for diesels, I can only say it's a positive step and one that should have happened when fuel prices first started to increase and we saw no end to it. It's been well over 3 years of fuel over $2/gallon and the only companies doing mass quantity things about it have been the Asian automakers, and as such, are building what we want, when we want it and are doing far, far better than any of the big 3.
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Old 07-14-2007, 09:15 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pattersontoo
The Edge is selling in double digit percentage gains month after month.

The GMC Acadia and the Saturn Outlook are performing even better than the Ford Edge.
Sometimes, on this forum, we tend to forget that the truck market is smaller than we perceive. The Big Three follow trends closely. The largest growing segment in the mid to late 90's was SUV's and trucks. They invested TONS of cash into these vehicles. Just remember, we cannot blame the automakers for making the SUVs and trucks. We asked for them. We bought them in MASS quantities. If you remember, GM made an electric car back in the early 90's. I still see several of them on the road here in Detroit. They did not sell. We would not buy them. Why would a company want to make something that no one wants to buy?
Now that gas has hit 3.40/gallon, (here in Detroit), we all want to blame the corporate giants that fed our appetite for big, bulky SUVs for not having a crystal ball to see that gas prices were going to go up 300%.
It still irks me when the media blasts the Big Three for making gas guzzling SUVs. If we did not want them, (with all the power that they put in them), then we should not have bought them. Plain and simple.
Do you know how long it takes to COMPLETELY retool a powertrain facility? On average, it takes three years from the start until the first engine or transmission rolls off of the line. This is JUST to retool the plant. It takes even more to design the new powertrain product, test it, redesign and retest. This new stuff does not just appear on the market. It takes a lot of time, manpower and, most of all, money.
Now, if you take a close look, you will see that GM, DCX and Ford are following the trend. Gas prices have soared. SUV sales has gone in the dumper. They are making great strides in powertrain technology.
I would absolutely love to have one of these diesels. If I have to wait for a crate version then I will go out and plunk down the cabbage to get it in the new, cool looking, GMC Sierra! The Duramax diesels are awesome! Match it with an Allison tranny and VIOLA! A perfect light duty heavy hauler!

IMHO
My observation is that as consumers we are basically sheep; we buy what the advertisers tell us to.
Marketers create demand, chic, cool. Media pushes it!

If you don't think so consider the following…

Did the consumer demand diamonds, and then the mining companies dig them up?

Did the consumer demand fur stoles and little dead rodent bodies with grabby spring loaded mouth parts to hang around our shoulders, and than the fur trappers went out to trap-um?


Bell bottoms, hip huggers, tube tops, panty hose, high heels, mullets, Afros, the bee hives, Rap music, tatoos, the pet rock, or anything Ron Popeel sells on TV (remember the pocket fisherman, Oh by the way, did that have anything to even do with fish)

Did the consumer demand metal dash boards with steel steering wheels to cave in our chests during an accident? Or "New Larger Tail Fins" for 1958, and only then did Detroit design them for us?


There was more behind the demise of GM's EV1 electric car than purely consumer demand. (see: www.aa1car.com/library/who_killed_electric_car.htm and www.lava.net/cslater/TQOrigin.pdf)

Did we demand cigarettes, and then were they manufactured?

We didn't even demand seatbelt or Airbags, the Insurance industry did in order it save money on medical payouts.

Wally created the demand for Airstreams, the media continues to push it, and we continue to buy it.

Marketing and advertisers tell us what we want, THEN we demand it!

The Polaroid corporation wanted to keep giving us instant pictures, even though we wanted digital pictures.

Kodak, wanted to keep giving us film pictures, even though we wanted digital pictures.

WBCCI, wants to give us the same old same old, even thought we want change. (I have added WBCCI's name, in order to keep this thread relevant to the forum)

Companies give us what is easiest for them, and for that, many of them have failed.

Cool is changing, there is money to be made in green now.
I remember a time when Fur was made cool by marketers.

I then watched as Fur was made un-cool by marketers. Same goes for cigarettes.

I see a time when instead of radicals spray painting women in fur coats with obscenities, they will spray paint Hummers with the same obscenities. Most, not in the name of anything moral or right mind you, but in the name of cool.

It is our nature, just look at us.



Nothing serious or personal mind ya, these are just my observations on human behavior, I may be wrong, it depends on what's cool at the moment.



Now where did I put that pocket fisherman.



Michael
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Old 07-14-2007, 09:26 PM   #47
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Did someone mention GM is going to produce a new small diesel?
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Old 07-14-2007, 10:15 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by David Alan
Did someone mention GM is going to produce a new small diesel?
smallER diesel... 4.5 is still rather big imho... I had a 1.3 tdi once.. now that's a small diesel!

Let the diesels come.. Hopefully Toyota will bring some of theirs to the US too; their D-catD's are great engines.
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Old 07-15-2007, 08:30 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by sos10
smallER diesel... 4.5 is still rather big imho... I had a 1.3 tdi once.. now that's a small diesel!

Let the diesels come.. Hopefully Toyota will bring some of theirs to the US too; their D-catD's are great engines.
Yes, that's true, but we are talking smaller diesels in the 1/2 light truck market, not passenger cars. I would agree, a 4.5L diesel in say a Chevy Cobalt or Aveo is too much (for the average consumer), but in a light truck or large passenger car......

What I'd really like to see is the Volt with one of the smaller 1.xL diesels as the secondary powerplant for a daily passenger car....wouldn't want it in a 1/2 pickup though....
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Old 07-15-2007, 08:49 AM   #50
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I'ld love to get a diesel Burb! But in the mean time for something to tow behind a small MoHo I'ld look at the Tri-Magnum. rgriley.com
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Old 07-15-2007, 09:08 AM   #51
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Any "mechanic type" have any idea on what kind of towing performance we can expect from a 4.4 or 4.5 deisel that is being discussed here?
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Old 07-15-2007, 09:16 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Van
Any "mechanic type" have any idea on what kind of towing performance we can expect from a 4.4 or 4.5 deisel that is being discussed here?
I could see a 4.5L diesel, provided the rest of the truck was up to snuff towing at between 7000 and 8000lbs. It would be north of whatever the current gasser would do in 1/2 sheet metal, but IMHO, it all depends on several other factors (trans, gears, hubs, etc). I can't see them making it too stout in fear it would dry up the 3/4 ton market, so that's why I'm thinking 7k to 8k.

BTW, you can get a Durmax/Allision Suburban right now (if you got the green) if you wanted and it just might be better than anything GM has in the works right now:

DuraMaxSuburban

Chevrolet Duramax Suburban - Four Wheeler
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Old 07-15-2007, 09:19 AM   #53
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Silvertwinkle- I've been lookin at their burb for some time now! Thanks!
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Old 07-15-2007, 09:27 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by doorgunner
Silvertwinkle- I've been lookin at their burb for some time now! Thanks!
You and me both! (as I wipe the drool off the floor).
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Old 07-15-2007, 10:49 AM   #55
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Any idea on what the 'burb sold for? Or at least the asking price? I wonder if they buy up a new truck and part it out or how they do this to get everything that's needed. Basically a body swap or what.

I'd better not show this to my wife or she'll take away my keyboard for a few days till my heart rate comes back to normal. She knows I want one real bad - not that I need it or can even drive it, but when has that ever been the issue......

Barry
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Old 07-15-2007, 07:19 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by safari57
Any idea on what the 'burb sold for? Or at least the asking price? I wonder if they buy up a new truck and part it out or how they do this to get everything that's needed. Basically a body swap or what.

I'd better not show this to my wife or she'll take away my keyboard for a few days till my heart rate comes back to normal. She knows I want one real bad - not that I need it or can even drive it, but when has that ever been the issue......

Barry
HA HA HA

I think it was fairly expensive...around $50-60k (US). I don't know what it would cost if you already had the burb and just wante the conversion.
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