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06-28-2007, 10:53 AM
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#1
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1 Rivet Short
1989 25' Excella
By The Bay
, Rhode Island
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,620
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New HD Truck Shootout!
__________________
*Life is Good-Camping all around the Continent*
*Good people drink good beer-Hunter S Thompson*
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06-28-2007, 01:20 PM
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#2
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Aluminut
2004 25' Safari
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, Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,477
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Great article...can't wait for the rest to unfold.
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06-28-2007, 02:45 PM
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#3
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USN/LAPD Retired
2005 25' Safari
North Las Vegas
, United States
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 850
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Wow !
Very interesting. Can't wait for the rest.
__________________
2007 Dodge Ram Quadcab 6.7L Diesel w/jakebrake
"Better to have more then you need, then need more then you have because you don't have enough!"
AIR #: 8129
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06-28-2007, 05:16 PM
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#4
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Rivet Master
2006 28' Safari SE
Currently Looking...
Colorado Springs
, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 703
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I used to be more neutral...
Until I watched the Dodge 3500 dualie owner at the next camp site replace his brake pads after towing down Red Mountain pass to Ouray (CO.). Granted he had a huge 39' fifth wheel toy hauler (with fuel tanks!!!) vs. our AS but I wouldn't trade the Allison tow/haul mode for any other system. The thing is magical. I went up an over that same pass, barely touched the brakes and got a hair less then 14 MPG. Maybe he didn't use a brake controller?
-KL
__________________
4CU Charter Member
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06-28-2007, 05:35 PM
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#5
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Rivet Master
2006 28' Safari SE
Currently Looking...
Colorado Springs
, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 703
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Just read that GM is selling off Allison so maybe Ford & Dodge will OEM Ally transmsions now too. Back to neutrality (as long as it's a diesel!).
__________________
4CU Charter Member
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06-29-2007, 07:53 AM
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#6
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1 Rivet Short
1989 25' Excella
By The Bay
, Rhode Island
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverback
Until I watched the Dodge 3500 dualie owner at the next camp site replace his brake pads after towing down Red Mountain pass to Ouray (CO.). Granted he had a huge 39' fifth wheel toy hauler (with fuel tanks!!!) vs. our AS but I wouldn't trade the Allison tow/haul mode for any other system. The thing is magical. I went up an over that same pass, barely touched the brakes and got a hair less then 14 MPG. Maybe he didn't use a brake controller?
-KL
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I have to agree. I just can’t imagine how towing could get any better than this. Every time I am towing (with a huge grin on my face) I have to ask myself “is this thing for real”? It practically drives itself…
I know the Ford and Dodge are very capable also, but the DuraMax/Allison combo is incredible. Yes you can add engine braking, aftermarket brake controllers, chips, power packs, blah, and blah, blah. But the way the D/A components work in unison, with a heavy load in T/H mode is just hard to explain. I know it is not practical, and everyone has their preference, but if potential truck buyers were allowed to hookup and experience a truck before they laid their money down, I would have to believe there would be even more D/A’s on the road than now. I don’t want to start a brand war, but for those folks that are in the market, I have yet to hear anything negative about the D/A, and can only tell you how blown away I am towing with this truck. I wish I had Bill Gate’s checking account, I would buy one of these for each member of the forum!
__________________
*Life is Good-Camping all around the Continent*
*Good people drink good beer-Hunter S Thompson*
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06-29-2007, 08:31 AM
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#7
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More than one rivet loose
Currently Looking...
Los Alamos
, New Mexico
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,756
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Ford Diesel already has engine braking standard
Not sure I would beleive an article presented by a company that selling performance upgrades for the trucks reviewed.
__________________
Michelle TAC MT-0
Sarah, Snowball
Looking for a 1962 Flying Cloud
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06-29-2007, 08:59 AM
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#8
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1 Rivet Short
1989 25' Excella
By The Bay
, Rhode Island
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecatsandi
Not sure I would beleive an article presented by a company that selling performance upgrades for the trucks reviewed.
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Why not?
__________________
*Life is Good-Camping all around the Continent*
*Good people drink good beer-Hunter S Thompson*
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06-29-2007, 09:40 AM
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#9
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_
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, .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillTex
with a heavy load in T/H mode is just hard to explain....if potential truck buyers were allowed to hookup and experience a truck before they laid their money down, I would have to believe there would be even more....
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well first of all this article/link has very little data yet.
we'll be waiting for part 2/3 for the actual comparisons...
if you've got a slow hookup skip it for now and until the complete story is posted.
secondly what's hard to explain about the tow/haul modes?
-gears are held longer during acceleration to maximize the torque/power curve
-downshifting happens on steeper downgrades (6-7%) automatically or with brake pressure.
-the downshifts hold unless the 'go' pedal is touched, so brake use is reduced.
the dodge has 2 features the other 2 don't,
an engine/exhaust brake that can be turned on/off.
and the 6 cylinder cummins is one proven tough engine...
finally i agree IF folks were allowed to hook up and tow sales might be affected...
since the fords have had an intergrated brake controller for 3 years...
potentials buyers really could have just 'hooked up' and tow'd.
so ford would have sold even more trucks these last 3 years!
has ne1 even tried the ge'em controller yet? or seen a truck WITH it?
also i continue to read about folks replacing the wimpy receiver ge'em provides,
as signs of fatigue appear in the oem version.
this ISN'T gonna show up in series of performance tests...
notice the ford weights a 1000 lbs more than the comparables?
dats steel baby!
just pulling your string b'tex...
cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.
we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
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06-29-2007, 10:00 AM
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#10
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Rivet Master
1960 22' Safari
in the wilderness
, The great Mojave Desert
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,077
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Al a carte dreams
I have not had any experience with the Allison trans. So keep that in mind.
I'd sign in a second for a Ford with a Cummings engine. I love everything about the Ford but you cannot argue the durability of that Cummings engine.
__________________
I'd rather be boon docking in the desert.
WBCCI 3344 FCU
AIR# 13896
CA 4
Yes, we have courtesy parking for you. About an hour North of Los Angeles.
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06-29-2007, 10:08 AM
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#11
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1 Rivet Short
1989 25' Excella
By The Bay
, Rhode Island
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
well first of all this article/link has very little data yet.
we'll be waiting for part 2/3 for the actual comparisons...
if you've got a slow hookup skip it for now and until the complete story is posted.
secondly what's hard to explain about the tow/haul modes?
-gears are held longer during acceleration to maximize the torque/power curve
-downshifting happens on some downgrades (6-7%) automatically or with brake pressure.
-the downshifts hold unless the 'go' pedal is touched, so brake use is reduced.
the dodge has one feature the other 2 don't,
an engine/exhaust brake that can be turned on/off.
and the 6 cylinder cummins is one tough engine...
finally i agree IF folks were allowed to hook up and tow sales might be affected...
since the fords have had an intergrated brake controller for 3 years...
potentials buyers really could have just 'hooked up' and tow'd.
so ford would have sold even more trucks these last 3 years!
has ne1 even tried the ge'em controller yet? or seen a truck WITH it?
also i continue to read about folks replacing the wimpy reciever ge'em provides,
as signs of fatigue appear in the oem version.
this ISN'T gonna show up in series of performance tests...
notice the ford weights a 1000 lbs more than the comparables?
dats steel baby!
just pulling your string b'tex...
cheers
2air'
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Hi 2air'
umm...yeah, I know how T/H works. I meant "the feeling" of how well the D/A system works is hard to explain to someone who has never experienced it. Compression brakes at just the right moment, perfect upshifts, etc.
I agree, as noted above, there are lots of reasons people have a preference, and any of these; Ford, GM, Dodge is quite capable of the job.
To clarify my other comments; a brake controller is easy to add (Ex;Prodigy=$100 and 10 minutes).
Not so easy to add an Allison...
I have towed with 5 GM trucks with factory receivers for probably well over 100k miles, have yet to see any problem with the receiver. I have heard about this issue however, and continue to check mine. Don't know first hand of anyone else that had this problem either? I know there was a blurb goin' round the internet a few years back that showed a GM with damaged receiver, come to find out the truck had been in an accident and trailer jacknifed.
Any way, I don't believe any man made machine is perfect. I do know the D/A is by far the best machine I have ever towed with. Just trying to express my satisfaction for those in the market for a new TV.
Who knows how this shootout will turnout? Should be interesting, they seem to have gone to great lengths to get well matched trucks.
And I must say, the F-450-wow!
Bill (with 1 string pulled...)
__________________
*Life is Good-Camping all around the Continent*
*Good people drink good beer-Hunter S Thompson*
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06-29-2007, 10:22 AM
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#12
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Remember, Safety Third
1973 27' Overlander
Catfish Corners
, Georgia
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,720
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Confession from a Ford guy
A buddy of mine recently bought a used 1 ton GM Dually with the D/A combo mentioned. THAT is a great truck. He does landscape work on the side and needs it to pull his tractors, etc. This truck had over 100,000 miles when he bought it and is now about 4 years old, IIRC. His only concern is with the tranny. There's nothing wrong with it but if you ever have to replace one of them, man do they get pricey. He was saying around $12,000 just to purchase one. Still a great truck, tho.
Jim
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06-29-2007, 10:31 AM
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#13
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_
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, .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillTex
...I have towed with 5 GM trucks with factory receivers for probably well over 100k miles, have yet to see any problem with the receiver. I have heard about this issue however, and continue to check mine. Don't know first hand of anyone else that had this problem either? I know there was a blurb goin' round the internet a few years back that showed a GM with damaged receiver, come to find out the truck had been in an accident and trailer jacknifed.
Who knows how this shootout will turnout? Bill (with 1 string pulled...)
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ah the power of searching our forums....
here is one of many threads on this topic....
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...ems-31857.html
notice in april moosetags was 'ok'
but a post just weeks later...
http://www.airforums.com/forums/393930-post11.html
was time for a replacement.
as for the winner, IF the ford is 1000lbs heavier don't they win?
it is a HEAVY duty truck shoot out right?
love the truck wars!
cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.
we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
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06-29-2007, 10:54 AM
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#14
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1 Rivet Short
1989 25' Excella
By The Bay
, Rhode Island
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
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Yeah, interesting to note that many of the posts there were related to older trucks. Did corrosion play a role?
What about the Dodge truck mentioned? Does this mean Chrysler has weak trailer hitches?
And the comment that these incidents were with trucks involved in high speed avoidance maneuvers?
My point; while I don’t think GM products are any more/less prone to problems than any of the others, I do not put much stock in this particular hitch thing. That connection is just too prone to abuse (I am sure I could load up a “Ford” hitch to the point of failure also), and as I said, the automotive companies do not “make” anything any more. They just assemble components, including transmissions, radios, seats, airbags, etc, etc. Most likely, the hitch is made by the same folks who are sourcing to Ford, Dodge, and after market. I have an after market (Reese brand) on another vehicle, looks VERY similar to a GM hitch. I doubt GM makes their own, pretty sure they are sourced from one of the big hitch makers.
Anyway, we are getting off topic…
Bill (2 strings pulled?)
__________________
*Life is Good-Camping all around the Continent*
*Good people drink good beer-Hunter S Thompson*
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06-29-2007, 01:22 PM
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#15
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Rivet Master
2006 28' Safari SE
Currently Looking...
Colorado Springs
, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 703
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Going on 4 years (and a lot of towing) with the stock Silverado hitch receiver and no problems. That is with both Reese and Hensley hitches. I think that was fixed years ago but I do eye ball it frequently. I also do all the Allison scheduled maintenance (filters and fluid changes).
-KL
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4CU Charter Member
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06-29-2007, 09:20 PM
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#16
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More than one rivet loose
Currently Looking...
Los Alamos
, New Mexico
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,756
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biased.
__________________
Michelle TAC MT-0
Sarah, Snowball
Looking for a 1962 Flying Cloud
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06-29-2007, 09:44 PM
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#17
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INSANITY CENTRAL
1986 32' Excella
Airstream Funeral Coach
Citrus Heights
, California
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,108
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Still waiting
Did I hear a rumbling about GM putting the Izusu-Allison package in Burbs? Anyone heard this? Or some other kerosene burner?
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www.popasmoke.com
Proud Appellation American
Vine View Heights is now closed.
YETI ( 65 Quart )
IGLOO (Ice Cube, 50 Quart )
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06-29-2007, 10:18 PM
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#18
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2 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Lubbock
, Texas
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 25
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It has been announced that in 2009 or 2010 GM will start putting diesels in SUVs. I don't know about the transmissions.
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06-30-2007, 12:07 AM
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#19
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Rivet Master
2005 25' Safari
Salem
, Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,376
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Hi, Wow. That was a lot of reading just to find out what happens when you add tongue weight to these new trucks. As for the GM trailer hitch receiver, A friend and co-worker replaced his factory receiver [on his 2006 Suburban] when we noticed both the 2" square hole and the 5/8" locking pin holes were hogged out. [Soft metal?] We compaired the pin hole and the 2" receiver hole with new Fords on the lot at the Ford dealer we both work at; And my 2000 Navigator is just as tight as brand new Fords and his Suburban was all beat up looking. The pin hole was oblong and flared. The 2" receiver hole was like stretched about 1/8" on all four sides. New after market receiver was ordered and installed before his next trip towing.
As for seeing Allisons in Fords or Dodges, don't hold your breath; For some time Ford owned Cummins and roomers were that Ford was going to put Cummins in their pick-ups. At that time Chrysler had a ten year contract with Cummins. Ford later sold Cummins.
__________________
Bob 2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent" Small Silver Castle
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
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06-30-2007, 11:48 AM
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#20
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Rivet Master
1986 25' Sovereign
Southern Middle
, Tennessee
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,319
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Unless GM rectifies the problem with a frame crossmember, you won't see the current Allison we know today behind the diesel in the Burb.
__________________
Craig
AIR #0078
'01 2500hd ext. cab, 8.1 litre gas, 5 sp. Allison auto
3.73 rear end
Mag-Hytec rear diff cover
Amsoil Dual by-pass oil filtration system
Amsoil synthetics all around
265 watt AM Solar, Inc. system
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