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Old 06-28-2007, 11:53 AM   #1
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New HD Truck Shootout!

This ought to be good!

PickupTruck.Com - 2007 PickupTruck.com Heavy Duty Shootout

Stay tuned

Bill
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Old 06-28-2007, 02:20 PM   #2
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Great article...can't wait for the rest to unfold.
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Old 06-28-2007, 03:45 PM   #3
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Wow !

Very interesting. Can't wait for the rest.
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Old 06-28-2007, 06:16 PM   #4
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I used to be more neutral...

Until I watched the Dodge 3500 dualie owner at the next camp site replace his brake pads after towing down Red Mountain pass to Ouray (CO.). Granted he had a huge 39' fifth wheel toy hauler (with fuel tanks!!!) vs. our AS but I wouldn't trade the Allison tow/haul mode for any other system. The thing is magical. I went up an over that same pass, barely touched the brakes and got a hair less then 14 MPG. Maybe he didn't use a brake controller?
-KL
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Old 06-28-2007, 06:35 PM   #5
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Just read that GM is selling off Allison so maybe Ford & Dodge will OEM Ally transmsions now too. Back to neutrality (as long as it's a diesel!).
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Old 06-29-2007, 08:53 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverback
Until I watched the Dodge 3500 dualie owner at the next camp site replace his brake pads after towing down Red Mountain pass to Ouray (CO.). Granted he had a huge 39' fifth wheel toy hauler (with fuel tanks!!!) vs. our AS but I wouldn't trade the Allison tow/haul mode for any other system. The thing is magical. I went up an over that same pass, barely touched the brakes and got a hair less then 14 MPG. Maybe he didn't use a brake controller?
-KL
I have to agree. I just can’t imagine how towing could get any better than this. Every time I am towing (with a huge grin on my face) I have to ask myself “is this thing for real”? It practically drives itself…
I know the Ford and Dodge are very capable also, but the DuraMax/Allison combo is incredible. Yes you can add engine braking, aftermarket brake controllers, chips, power packs, blah, and blah, blah. But the way the D/A components work in unison, with a heavy load in T/H mode is just hard to explain. I know it is not practical, and everyone has their preference, but if potential truck buyers were allowed to hookup and experience a truck before they laid their money down, I would have to believe there would be even more D/A’s on the road than now. I don’t want to start a brand war, but for those folks that are in the market, I have yet to hear anything negative about the D/A, and can only tell you how blown away I am towing with this truck. I wish I had Bill Gate’s checking account, I would buy one of these for each member of the forum!
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Old 06-29-2007, 09:31 AM   #7
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Ford Diesel already has engine braking standard
Not sure I would beleive an article presented by a company that selling performance upgrades for the trucks reviewed.
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Old 06-29-2007, 09:59 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecatsandi
Not sure I would beleive an article presented by a company that selling performance upgrades for the trucks reviewed.
Why not?
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Old 06-29-2007, 10:40 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillTex
with a heavy load in T/H mode is just hard to explain....if potential truck buyers were allowed to hookup and experience a truck before they laid their money down, I would have to believe there would be even more....
well first of all this article/link has very little data yet.

we'll be waiting for part 2/3 for the actual comparisons...

if you've got a slow hookup skip it for now and until the complete story is posted.

secondly what's hard to explain about the tow/haul modes?

-gears are held longer during acceleration to maximize the torque/power curve
-downshifting happens on steeper downgrades (6-7%) automatically or with brake pressure.
-the downshifts hold unless the 'go' pedal is touched, so brake use is reduced.

the dodge has 2 features the other 2 don't,
an engine/exhaust brake that can be turned on/off.
and the 6 cylinder cummins is one proven tough engine...

finally i agree IF folks were allowed to hook up and tow sales might be affected...

since the fords have had an intergrated brake controller for 3 years...
potentials buyers really could have just 'hooked up' and tow'd.

so ford would have sold even more trucks these last 3 years!


has ne1 even tried the ge'em controller yet? or seen a truck WITH it?

also i continue to read about folks replacing the wimpy receiver ge'em provides,

as signs of fatigue appear in the oem version.

this ISN'T gonna show up in series of performance tests...

notice the ford weights a 1000 lbs more than the comparables?

dats steel baby!

just pulling your string b'tex...

cheers
2air'
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Old 06-29-2007, 11:00 AM   #10
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Al a carte dreams

I have not had any experience with the Allison trans. So keep that in mind.

I'd sign in a second for a Ford with a Cummings engine. I love everything about the Ford but you cannot argue the durability of that Cummings engine.
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Old 06-29-2007, 11:08 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
well first of all this article/link has very little data yet.

we'll be waiting for part 2/3 for the actual comparisons...

if you've got a slow hookup skip it for now and until the complete story is posted.

secondly what's hard to explain about the tow/haul modes?

-gears are held longer during acceleration to maximize the torque/power curve
-downshifting happens on some downgrades (6-7%) automatically or with brake pressure.
-the downshifts hold unless the 'go' pedal is touched, so brake use is reduced.

the dodge has one feature the other 2 don't,
an engine/exhaust brake that can be turned on/off.
and the 6 cylinder cummins is one tough engine...

finally i agree IF folks were allowed to hook up and tow sales might be affected...

since the fords have had an intergrated brake controller for 3 years...
potentials buyers really could have just 'hooked up' and tow'd.

so ford would have sold even more trucks these last 3 years!

has ne1 even tried the ge'em controller yet? or seen a truck WITH it?

also i continue to read about folks replacing the wimpy reciever ge'em provides,

as signs of fatigue appear in the oem version.

this ISN'T gonna show up in series of performance tests...

notice the ford weights a 1000 lbs more than the comparables?

dats steel baby!

just pulling your string b'tex...

cheers
2air'
Hi 2air'
umm...yeah, I know how T/H works. I meant "the feeling" of how well the D/A system works is hard to explain to someone who has never experienced it. Compression brakes at just the right moment, perfect upshifts, etc.

I agree, as noted above, there are lots of reasons people have a preference, and any of these; Ford, GM, Dodge is quite capable of the job.

To clarify my other comments; a brake controller is easy to add (Ex;Prodigy=$100 and 10 minutes).
Not so easy to add an Allison...

I have towed with 5 GM trucks with factory receivers for probably well over 100k miles, have yet to see any problem with the receiver. I have heard about this issue however, and continue to check mine. Don't know first hand of anyone else that had this problem either? I know there was a blurb goin' round the internet a few years back that showed a GM with damaged receiver, come to find out the truck had been in an accident and trailer jacknifed.

Any way, I don't believe any man made machine is perfect. I do know the D/A is by far the best machine I have ever towed with. Just trying to express my satisfaction for those in the market for a new TV.

Who knows how this shootout will turnout? Should be interesting, they seem to have gone to great lengths to get well matched trucks.
And I must say, the F-450-wow!

Bill (with 1 string pulled...)
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Old 06-29-2007, 11:22 AM   #12
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Confession from a Ford guy

A buddy of mine recently bought a used 1 ton GM Dually with the D/A combo mentioned. THAT is a great truck. He does landscape work on the side and needs it to pull his tractors, etc. This truck had over 100,000 miles when he bought it and is now about 4 years old, IIRC. His only concern is with the tranny. There's nothing wrong with it but if you ever have to replace one of them, man do they get pricey. He was saying around $12,000 just to purchase one. Still a great truck, tho.

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Old 06-29-2007, 11:31 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillTex
...I have towed with 5 GM trucks with factory receivers for probably well over 100k miles, have yet to see any problem with the receiver. I have heard about this issue however, and continue to check mine. Don't know first hand of anyone else that had this problem either? I know there was a blurb goin' round the internet a few years back that showed a GM with damaged receiver, come to find out the truck had been in an accident and trailer jacknifed.

Who knows how this shootout will turnout? Bill (with 1 string pulled...)

ah the power of searching our forums....

here is one of many threads on this topic....

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...ems-31857.html

notice in april moosetags was 'ok'

but a post just weeks later...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/393930-post11.html

was time for a replacement.

as for the winner, IF the ford is 1000lbs heavier don't they win?

it is a HEAVY duty truck shoot out right?

love the truck wars!

cheers
2air'
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Old 06-29-2007, 11:54 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
ah the power of searching our forums....

here is one of many threads on this topic....

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...ems-31857.html

notice in april moosetags was 'ok'

but a post just weeks later...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/393930-post11.html

was time for a replacement.

as for the winner, IF the ford is 1000lbs heavier don't they win?

it is a HEAVY duty truck shoot out right?

love the truck wars!

cheers
2air'
Yeah, interesting to note that many of the posts there were related to older trucks. Did corrosion play a role?
What about the Dodge truck mentioned? Does this mean Chrysler has weak trailer hitches?
And the comment that these incidents were with trucks involved in high speed avoidance maneuvers?

My point; while I don’t think GM products are any more/less prone to problems than any of the others, I do not put much stock in this particular hitch thing. That connection is just too prone to abuse (I am sure I could load up a “Ford” hitch to the point of failure also), and as I said, the automotive companies do not “make” anything any more. They just assemble components, including transmissions, radios, seats, airbags, etc, etc. Most likely, the hitch is made by the same folks who are sourcing to Ford, Dodge, and after market. I have an after market (Reese brand) on another vehicle, looks VERY similar to a GM hitch. I doubt GM makes their own, pretty sure they are sourced from one of the big hitch makers.

Anyway, we are getting off topic…

Bill (2 strings pulled?)
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