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Old 12-17-2007, 07:17 PM   #1
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New GM Diesel V8

Hey everybody,

I just got the new issue of Hot Rod magazine and they have a decent writeup on the new diesel from GM. This engine looks really promising.

It's a 72 degree angle V8. Kind of odd; most are 90 degrees and many engines are 60 degrees. Both 90 and 60 make even firing pulses because they're even multiples of 360. Well, I guess 72 is also as it's 1/5 of 360. OK, so it's a narrow angle V8 to keep width down.

The block is made of graphite impregnated iron. The heads are aluminum. What is very unusual and seemed goofy when I first read it, made perfect sense after I looked at it more closely in the photo: The intake side of the heads are on the outside and the exhaust side of the heads are in the center. Just the opposite of every other engine I've ever seen. Why did the General do this? Because they plumb all eight exhausts into what looks like a normal intake manifold with a turbocharger attached to the top of it where a carburetor would sit (in your '69 Camaro). They then run one big pipe off the turbo out and down to the back of the vehicle. So the fuel rails and stuff run along the outside, the exhaust comes out the center through one big manifold and into the single turbo. Kind of slick.

Physical size wise, the engine is super light for a diesel, and it will fit anywhere the standard gasoline small block V8 will. It's designed for half ton trucks and the article mentioned an 8600 pound GVWR. Not too shabby. Noise levels are supposed to be super low for a diesel and on par with a gas engine. Super low emissions too.

It's a 4.5L in displacement (that's about a 266 cubic inch). GM isn't releasing horsepower or torque figures. I ran some quick calcs and my estimate is 235 horsepower and 430 ft-lbs of torque.

So far, it's destined for only trucks. But not to say GM couldn't stick it in an Impala. Why not? Benz has done it for years.

This could be a real shining star. They're calling it the Duramax 4.5

Cheers!
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Old 12-17-2007, 07:25 PM   #2
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3/4 ton Suburban??

C'mon, they gotta put it in a 3/4 ton suburban!! I'm willing to go into debt if they made one!
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Old 12-17-2007, 07:26 PM   #3
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Very interesting Jim! I came up with 3 links using Google News:
MAX Payload News, Rumors, Trends, Stuff - Auto News - Truck Trend
Truckin Web Opinions Blog | Truckin Web Discussions & News - Truckin Web Magazine
SEMA TRUCKS 2007 - My Favorites | Auto Shows Blog & Discussions at Truck Trend Magazine

But your explanation certainly gives the best information. Look for the Karma Clearinghouse oil-burning dually Avalanche in your neighborhood!

[on edit: aw shucks. You get a lot of hits if you plug Duramax 4.5 into regular Google.]
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Old 12-17-2007, 08:26 PM   #4
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Prototype Suburban

I have seen a Suburban prototype with the 4.5 Litre Duramax so you better get that financing lined up.

We have several customers now towing with the Mercedes 3.0 Litre Diesel in Jeeps and ML and GL's. The 3.0 Litre diesel is an amazing performer so I think you would find the 4.5 to be more than adequate.

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Old 12-17-2007, 08:32 PM   #5
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Jim

This sounds like a neat engine. I've got a buddy who does design work on injection systems for OEM diesels so I'll have to ask him how this one looks when he gets back from getting a tan in Mexico.

These are exciting times for motorheads who are enjoying all the creative ideas that are coming out of the manufacturers.

Barry
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Old 12-17-2007, 08:35 PM   #6
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And don't forget the Mercedes 2.7 liter turbo diesel in my Sprinter. At 155 hp and 225 ft/lb of torque, this thing is rated at 8550 GVW and 13,550 CGVW and it works at those limits, is quiet and pulls forever!!!!!

Diesels RULE!!!!!
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Old 12-17-2007, 08:52 PM   #7
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I remember the last diesel GM made what a DISASTER I had an Olds Toronado and the dealer I bought it from wouldn't even take it back as a trade in. Wouldn't even give me a quote on a new gas Toronado said sorry they didn't want used diesels.
I wrote GM a letter explaining the would not even make an offer for trade on a 2 year old Olds and they wrote back, "Sorry but GM does not control the value of used vehicles.

I found another dealer and did trade for a new Toronado and lost around $12,000 on that piece of diesel junk I just hope they get it right this time but I won't be one of the early birds to buy one.

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Old 12-17-2007, 09:16 PM   #8
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Garry, it sounds like you're talking about the brief experiment to redesign gas engines to run as diesels. That mistake should never have happened. Small diesels are used widely in Europe and Asia. Get used to seeing more in this country.
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Old 12-18-2007, 09:52 AM   #9
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Jim, good stuff. I heard development rumors before, but this looks like it is coming into fruition.
This is our first diesel (06 D/A) and I am very pleased with it. So much so, that I would love to get the Wife a diesel car for a shopping-mobile (I only buy GM, so hopefuly they will drop this in a car/small ute).

Is this new diesel GM or Isuzu like our D/A?

Bill
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Old 12-18-2007, 10:20 AM   #10
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I scanned this article in from a friends diesel magazine. It looks like a lot of manufacturers and looking at the diesel option.

new engines.pdf
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Old 12-18-2007, 10:59 AM   #11
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Thumbs up Great news!

OK, I'm not an engineer, but even I have figured out that a small diesel is the way to go when my '03 4.7L Dodge Dakota finally gives up the ghost. No more white-knuckling when hauling our Bambi up long grades! Jim & Crispyboy: my hat's off to you both for your informative (and encouraging) posts!

-Jerry
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Old 12-18-2007, 11:36 AM   #12
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Excellent information about what has been going on in the diesel world. Almost 60% of all vehicles sold in Europe are diesel by the way.

As everyone knows there is going to be a lot of new diesels comming in the near future. Ford is going to have an all new 6.7 diesel produced in house for 2010 year. Dodge says thier present Cummins meets 2010 standards. Ford will be buiding thier own engines because of well documented troubles between them and Navistar. Ford is also comming with a diesel next year in the F-150 and to follow that with a diesel in their Exspedition. GM has of course the same thing comming. I would love to see the new GM diesel with the exaust inwards.

Enginers are fighting a two sided battle. They want power to be compeditive with each other but they must have good fuel mileage. Its no secret the present diesels would get better fuel mileage if they detuned them a bit. I saw an interesting program on this subject a while back on Speed TV. Power versus fuel mileage. Of course power is for hype but its getting to the point we need fuel mileage more than power. It seems the Big THREE are playing some sort of who is gonna do it first with a truck that will get an honest 25 mpg or more hiway.

As for GM putting this new V-6 in cars I doubt you will see it. You will see a diesel in GM cars as you will with many others in the near future. But from what I read they will be smaller engines than the ones mentioned here. I exspect to see family size cars with diesels getting 35+ mpg in the not to distant future. Of course the price of diesel will still go up and our actuall fuel bill will not change a whole lot. There is going to some changes comming with some interesting applications.

I was a fleet manager back in the days when GM converted thier 350 block to diesel. We thought this was the answer and ordered half a dozen 3/4 and 1 ton delivery trucks and a couple of cub vans with the 5.7 diesel. WHAT A MISTAKE....they were nightmares on ELM STREET. I got so burned out with GM and their trucks and the failure to be able to make them run at the time I swore I would never buy another GM product. Of course the new Duramax is a good engine as are the other truck engines of today. But the exsperiment by GM back in the 80,s took its toll in ways you might not think of. Because the vehicle were so unreliable and spend to much time on a tow hook my reputation was hurt as a fleet manager. It took years to get out from under that GM curse for me. Because of this issue I will never buy another GM product. Even if they made the best car or truck ever produced. ITS A PERSONAL PROBELM I know. But thats the way it is.
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Old 12-18-2007, 04:42 PM   #13
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The 35 mpg diesel powered passenger car is already in existence. Look at the VW line of 1.9L turbo diesels. They get 45+ mpg NOW, are smooth, quiet and powerful with real acceleration.

Also, Mercedes has started adding their new Blue-tec diesels into their passenger line. IIRC the 'E' series was the first to get the new engine and gets a solid 35 mpg on the highway. Super low emissions also.They are scheduled to add this engine across the board and when it hits the Spriter line......I'll be getting another one!
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Old 12-18-2007, 06:27 PM   #14
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When I say 35+ miles per gallon I mean in FULL SIZE CARS with an average of over 35. Cars with interior volumn of a Mercury Grand Marchy. Vehicles that can seat 5 or 6 people comfortably. My neighbor has a VW diesel that gets close to 40 but you can only carry two people and a midget. There have been 40 mpg diesels for some time buy they are small vehicles in my world.
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