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Old 03-25-2010, 11:20 AM   #1
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New Fords-sway control built in?

I just looked at the new 2011 Ford 6.7 Diesel Super Duty last night at a special dealer showing. The new Fords have sway control built in to the braking system. It senses yaw at the hitch and automatically actuates the appropriate truck brakes to control the sway. If you order the truck with the trailer brake controller, it also automatically actuates the trailer brakes (electric only) inn combo with the truck brakes. I watched a video of it and I have to say, it was pretty impressive. It does not eliminate the need for a WD hitch, but it does appear to eliminate the need for sway control at the hitch. Any thoughts out there from our hitch experts. I was planning on ordering the new Ford 6.7 Diesel Super Duty this year anyway, but this sway control really makes it interesting.
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Old 03-25-2010, 11:30 AM   #2
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It does not eliminate the need for a WD hitch, but it does appear to eliminate the need for sway control at the hitch...
you might wanna REthink this notion...

does ABS eliminate the need for snow tires or rain tires OR applying the brakes in TIME to stop ?

do sophisticated "traction control" systems eliminate the need for DRIVER control in corners, on curves and in traffic?

does full time AWD eliminate the need for tow trucks?
________

chrysler has had this on the aspen? for 3 years now? and other have started using yaw sensor/systems activations...

the F system has been in use for 1-2 years on the 150 and NOW will be on the 250/350, but it is still an AFTER THE FACT correction.

it is NOT a sway elimination system.

applying the brakes at ONE/2 wheels, cutting throttle response and activating the trailer brakes in response to YAW...

are good things and it's GREAT they've begun to USE the systems...

some ideas have been posted here...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...-on-62347.html

and more on this will follow soon.

given how LITTLE car sales folks KNOW about towing or SETUP for towing...

there will be MORE confusion rather than less for a while,

so don't toss how the fancy hitches just yet.


cheers
2air'
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Old 03-25-2010, 11:35 AM   #3
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I just looked at the new 2011 Ford 6.7 Diesel Super Duty last night at a special dealer showing. The new Fords have sway control built in to the braking system. It senses yaw at the hitch and automatically actuates the appropriate truck brakes to control the sway. If you order the truck with the trailer brake controller, it also automatically actuates the trailer brakes (electric only) inn combo with the truck brakes. I watched a video of it and I have to say, it was pretty impressive. It does not eliminate the need for a WD hitch, but it does appear to eliminate the need for sway control at the hitch. Any thoughts out there from our hitch experts. I was planning on ordering the new Ford 6.7 Diesel Super Duty this year anyway, but this sway control really makes it interesting.
Ford has been known to make claims, that are hogwash.

I would wait to see what others may report.

A sway control, stops a sway from happening.

It sounds to me that what Ford came up with, is a control to kill the sway after it happens.

I believe it's better to not have it happen, in the first place.

Andy
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Old 03-25-2010, 01:07 PM   #4
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I agree with both respondents so far...so what does that mean I know any way. But, I wouldn't eliminate a key factor in enjoyable and safe towing-a good weight distribution hitch system with built in sway control. The after-the-fact sway control is that, it controls the sway once it occurs. To repeat an oft used clichť: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. This system may be good as a back-up or additional control in emergency situations but emergencies are few and far between if your rig is properly set up on both sides of the hitch and you pay attention to how you are towing (speed, drowsiness, etc).
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Old 03-25-2010, 05:01 PM   #5
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here we go again :-(

"it is NOT a sway elimination system."

"A sway control, stops a sway from happening."

I do wish it were indeed a perfect world but it ain't yet. Depending upon how you want to play with the definition of sway, there just isn't any such thing as some mechanism that will absolutely positively keep your rig from responding to all perturbations in travel in unpleasant ways.

What Ford is doing is like what people did before the sway damping devices often found today were common except that they do it quicker and with a bit more finesse. It is a well known and proven technique but it won't prevent a driver from doing things like trying to swerve around an obstacle going down grade. No device is going to prevent that from happening nor prevent the consequences.

Don't get complacent in your rig prep and driving by thinking there is some mechanical solution that will make you safe.
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Old 03-25-2010, 05:17 PM   #6
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One thing I can surely live without is another computer controlled electronic device in my vehicle that takes away my input, skills and control.

One incident this winter has me questioning the benefits of ABS. I am sure I could have handled the situation better if I had 100 % control.

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Old 03-25-2010, 09:35 PM   #7
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I have a 2009 F150 with the sway control and the factory Ford controller. While helpful, I wouldn't tow without a sway control hitch setup as well.
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Old 03-25-2010, 10:37 PM   #8
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I did the launch of the new 2011 Ford F250/350/450 Diesel and Gas product just three weeks ago for Ford. It does have trailer sway and brake controller in line. The trailer brake controller is supplied by Tekonsha and is an excellent product. The trailer sway mechanism does work, but it works to stop the sway once it is detected. It does not eliminate it all together. It does manage it extremely well if you begin to get any sway whatsoever. The Ford engineers I worked with said that anyone towing should still make every attempt to mitigate sway BEFORE it happens. Therefore, they suggested one should make use of a sway mitigation hitch. They also said that if towers all used the Hensley or Propride hitch system, there wouldn't be a need for sway mitigation controllers on vehicles.

I did a series of towing exercises with the new Diesel and it was extremely impressive. This new truck is truly an awesome piece of equipment. We towed various payloads from 1000 pounds to 16,000 pounds and got a range of 19 to 24 miles per gallon. Incredible results.

By the way...I'm not a Ford employee. I'm an independent product launch specialist that tests these new trucks and provides reviews to various outlets.

This new Ford F-250 series is really ground-breaking.

Good luck to you in your search.
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Old 03-25-2010, 11:06 PM   #9
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Ford has been known to make claims, that are hogwash.

Hi, please enlighten me on this statement; Must be something I missed while working at Ford New Car Dealers for almost as long as you have been playing with Airstreams.
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Old 03-25-2010, 11:57 PM   #10
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....I did a series of towing exercises with the new Diesel and it was extremely impressive. This new truck is truly an awesome piece of equipment. We towed various payloads from 1000 pounds to 16,000 pounds and got a range of 19 to 24 miles per gallon. Incredible results.....
Can you tell me how this was verified? I'd be very interested in these numbers.
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Old 03-26-2010, 11:10 AM   #11
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Hi, please enlighten me on this statement; Must be something I missed while working at Ford New Car Dealers for almost as long as you have been playing with Airstreams.
+1, that's a little harsh Andy.
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Old 03-26-2010, 11:56 AM   #12
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here we go again :-(

"it is NOT a sway elimination system."

"A sway control, stops a sway from happening."

I do wish it were indeed a perfect world but it ain't yet. Depending upon how you want to play with the definition of sway, there just isn't any such thing as some mechanism that will absolutely positively keep your rig from responding to all perturbations in travel in unpleasant ways.

What Ford is doing is like what people did before the sway damping devices often found today were common except that they do it quicker and with a bit more finesse. It is a well known and proven technique but it won't prevent a driver from doing things like trying to swerve around an obstacle going down grade. No device is going to prevent that from happening nor prevent the consequences.

Don't get complacent in your rig prep and driving by thinking there is some mechanical solution that will make you safe.
Thanks for your post, Bryan.

The onboard brake controller has become a nice feature in tow-equipped trucks. Stability control systems have either made cars safer or allowed greater latitude in design -- however you look at it (probably somewhere in between). Extending this computational power to what goes on aft of the hitch sure seems based on Ford's preconception of how to assess and react. Would you have to be several bad decisions down the road before this kicks in? I'd like to see the CYA document Ford furnishes with this!

The driver has ultimate responsibility in driving safely and maintaining their equipment.
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Old 03-26-2010, 12:26 PM   #13
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...I'd like to see the CYA document Ford furnishes with this!....
the F disclaimer is summarized in this direct quote from their TO THE CUSTOMER lit on the new yaw tamer...

"remember that even advanced technology cannot overcome the laws of physics.

it's always possible to lose control of a vehicle due to inappropriate driver input for the conditions."


end quote
_____________

basically this system is about extending the technology of electronic stability control systems from JUST a passenger vehicle...

to include towed OR HAULED stuff (imagine a top heavy slide camper OR tall load in the box, not just a stream on the hitch)

even the best driver canNOT apply ONE BRAKE manually (well maybe the parking brake)

the system has some driver select-ability...

there are ~10 different setting/configurations,

so one can sorta account for 5th wheel/goose necks, on the ball towing, loads and so on...

it also includes RSC (roll stability control) using a 'roll rate sensor' to again selectively apply braking at ONE wheel or more...
_________

the one feature that SHOULD satisfy a lot of old guys is...

the system can also be turned OFF (a good thing for now) without affected the ITBC which is a different system.

the sensors AND the software are new

and like early anti lock brake systems i suspect there will be 'improvements' in the software AND sensors.

3/4-1 ton truck drivers are the LAST of the passenger vehicle crowd to even HAVE full ABS on their rides...

so i welcome these new features along with the 6 AIRBAGS and REdesigned seats/head restraints and steering column.
_________

this new truck has a lot of whistles and bells tied to the yaw sensor/gyroscope/roll rate gizmos....

the CENTER of the dash display can show INCLINE/DECLINE angles (grade), TILT, compass readings and other cool stuff.

there is 'check screen' with visuals and reminders for things like...

"is the tongue jack RAISED ?"..."press OK to confirm"...

pretty cool!

basically there is tiny "kong game" display in the center dash with the truck as the monKEY...

it looks however like the ACTUAL yaw sensor/black box is made in canada...

so we all get a HUGE UPrating in towing capacity and might need to learn how to cuss in french...

works good eh?

cheers
2air'
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Old 03-26-2010, 12:43 PM   #14
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Hi, please enlighten me on this statement; Must be something I missed while working at Ford New Car Dealers for almost as long as you have been playing with Airstreams.
hi ya bob

not EVER attempting to answer or 'splain for some1 else here...

but i think he already posted the enlightenment on this statement and HOW he's using this term for swill here....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
...Those that suggest hog wash, have no factual basis to go on, other than their opinion.

Anyone can call anything, hog wash. That's an opinion, without fact or foundation.

To some, if they didn't invent it, or publish it, then it must be hog wash....
in this thread...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f396...tml#post822392

cheers
2air'
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