Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-26-2010, 01:04 PM   #15
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquabud View Post
...We towed various payloads from 1000 pounds to 16,000 pounds and got a range of 19 to 24 miles per gallon. Incredible results....
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpandorf View Post
Can you tell me how this was verified? I'd be very interested in these numbers.
hi dan

i spend time with an ACTUAL F employee (truck division)

who's been driving one of these new trucks for the last several months and longs 1000s of miles in one.

he claims UP TO 19 mpg solo HIGHWAY (not towing) and at ~80 mph mostly.

but the details are IN the details....

there are 4 axle ratios for these new 250/350s and NOT all are available in ALL of the configurations...

to the get the HIGHEST mpg a 3.31 rear end is required.

the 3.31 has ALL of the same towing specs as the more common 3.55 axle...

((towing capacity 14k for SRW 250s and 350s))

none of the HIGH mpg reports are in those trucks....

with 735 peak torque at 15-1700 rpms there is PLENTY of hauling power, even at these lower axle ratios...

BUT and this is relatively important for those hauling long streams AND carrying a lot of stuff in the bed...

the gvwr is 23.5K for the 2 lower axle ratios (about the same as my 05 250)

while the gvwr is 29k (5,500 lbs HIGHER) for the long time used 3.73 axle ratio....

23.5 is pretty good, but IF u want the 29k gvwr OR the 3.73 axle...

it's ONLY available now on the Dual Rear Wheel trucks...

so only 350 duallies can have 3.73. and no 250s.

the DRW with the 3.73 also has a TC of 15,000 vs the 14k for the srw trucks with lesser ratios.
________

the 4.30 rear axle comes with a mind smashing 33,000 lb gVwr and 24,000 lb towing capacity,

but is only available on the 450s.
________

the point being MPG is highly dependent of WHICH axle and WHICH truck...

the guy getting 19 for FORD is driving a 4x2 with 3.31 and a tonneau cover on the bed.

so these HIGH mpg reports are now ~ equal to the 10 year old 7.3 power stroke coal burners...

basically they are BACK to where they once were but with LOTS more kick and all the current emissions standards.

and using ULSD fuels.
________

i suspect TOWING we will still get 10-13 mpg and since my truck is nailed to 11 mpg towing,

1-3 mpg improvement would be nice (no necessarily COST effective however)

as long as the FRONTAL impace/wind resistance of a stream is what it is...

the towing mpg IS NOT gonna go up unless the DRIVER slows WAY down.

cheers
2air'
__________________

__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2010, 10:46 PM   #16
2 Rivet Member
 
2010 27' FB International
Birmingham , Michigan
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpandorf View Post
Can you tell me how this was verified? I'd be very interested in these numbers.
Not certain I know what your asking as regards "verified". The towing exercises were conducted by professional engineers. The mileage results were detailed by something called "Work Solutions" which is a software management system available on the new F Series trucks.
__________________

__________________
Aquabud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2010, 04:27 AM   #17
Rivet Master
 
flyfisher's Avatar
 
2004 30' Classic
Field and Stream , PA & MT
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 819
Ford states that the 2011 "F-Series Super Duty equipped with the 6.7-liter Power StrokeŽ V-8 turbocharged diesel engine averages an 18 percent improvement for pickup models and up to 25 percent improvement for chassis cabs versus 2010 models. Trucks equipped with new base 6.2-liter V-8 gas engine average a 15 percent improvement versus 2010 models."

I presently have a 2008 Job #3 F450 6.4L with the 4.30 rear end, and have recently averaged about 7.2 mpg towing at an average hwy speed of 60-62 mph. If I were to get the new 2011 (which I am presently considering), AND got an 18% improvement in mpg, I'd save about $300 in fuel costs per year (based on a projected annual 5,000 mostly-towing-miles.)

However, I understand this new truck also uses urea that must be either added to, or changed periodically - I'm not sure of the details - but I suspect the urea cost would take a big bite out of any fuel cost savings.

So, at least in my case, I'm not anticipating any significant net savings as a result of this proclaimed increase in mpg.

Also, it sounds like the integrated brake controller in these 2011 Super Duties is still going to be certified for electric brakes only, the same as the prior Super Duties are. DANG! if that's the case. (I had to add a second brake controller in my 2008 to control the disc brakes on one of my trailers.) Anyone know for sure if that's the case?

John
__________________
Flyfisher
flyfisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2010, 09:21 AM   #18
Rivet Master
 
1975 29' Ambassador
Reno , Nevada
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,351
re: "Would you have to be several bad decisions down the road before this kicks in?"

What I am concerned about is this idea of a "perfect solution" that will "prevent sway" - because it is a mindset that is not optimum for safety and not in line with the real world.

There have been many vehicle improvements over the years that have done a lot to make vehicles safer and more reliable. Drivers tend to respond slowly and often in the wrong manner when a driving crisis occurs. That is the why behind ABS for instance. That is also why my Odyssey will back off the accelerator if I push to hard on ice. The Ford sway control is a step in that same direction.

re: "still going to be certified for electric brakes only" -- this is probably because they react faster. The disk brakes still have a significant delay involved in the hydraulic pump and they don't have the same electrical control characteristics, either.

What I am looking for is a smart braking system on a trailer controlled by transducers in the coupler and a few accelerometers. The trailer would then do what was necessary to stay behind the tow vehicle in a straight line. Airstream tried that 40 years ago but the technology wasn't there yet. Nowadays it could be networked with the tow vehicle computers to created an integrated control system. Then all you'd have to worry about is software bugs. ;-)
__________________
bryanl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2010, 09:56 AM   #19
Rivet Master
 
Road Ruler's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
St. Catharines , South Western Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,364
Images: 39
Every additional safety feature is another step in the positive direction. There are far to many RV accidents due to out of, or lack of control.

We have been using anti lock brakes for over 15 years and our current vehicle has traction and stability control. We have had moments where all of these features have come into play and we have realized the huge benefits.

Fords new technology seems impressive. Would be great to review some more tests with the trailers in tow.
__________________
Airstreams..... The best towing trailers on the planet!
Road Ruler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2010, 11:19 AM   #20
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfisher View Post
...However, I understand this new truck also uses urea that must be either added to, or changed periodically - I'm not sure of the details - but I suspect the urea cost would take a big bite out of any fuel cost savings...
it's consumed so adding more is the routine.

perhaps the costs would be offset, it is somewhat imprecise to run the $ numbers as projections...

since we don't know exactly how much it's gonna cost (5 gal or 2.5 gal jugs)

they are 'estimating' the ~5 gallons of water/urea will be consumed over 6-8,000 miles...

and could be filled ~ at oil changes.

motorcraft will be a supplier of the stuff and OWNERS can fill the tank, no special tools, there is a spout next to the diesel spout.

generic auto parts chains will carry the stuff to, like all the other auto fluids.
_________

other maintenance savings will come from EXTENDED oil change intervals and fuel filters and the tranny service.

my tranny is serviced ~30k (towing) but the new gear box is supposed good for UPTO 150k before service.

so conservatively that might be 60-80k intervals towing.
_________

now with the bump in payload and towing capacity one might consider the 350 DRW with a 3.73 rear end instead of the 450.

again with 735 ft/lb of torque that's plenty of grunt for a 5er...
_________

i do like the 450, but my understanding is it's still DEtuned relative to the 250/350 units.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfisher View Post
...Also, it sounds like the integrated brake controller in these 2011 Super Duties is still going to be certified for electric brakes only, the same as the prior Super Duties are...
i consider this an IMPROVEMENT in the F disclaimer regarding brake compatibility...

my owners manuals just reads "will only work with electric, will NOT work with electric/hydraulic yadda, yadda...

but the controller works flawlessly with the elec/hydraulic brakes on my classic,

and had been trouble FREE for 5 years of towing.

NOT certified is fine with me, the performance of the itbc/electric/hydraulic combo has been perfect.

cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2010, 09:02 AM   #21
Rivet Master
 
1975 29' Ambassador
Reno , Nevada
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,351
re: " There are far to many RV accidents due to out of, or lack of control."

This is the sort of hyperbole that, I think, serves no good purpose.

The 2006 crash book for Nevada, for instance, cites 2 TT crashes out of something like 111,000 crashes in that year. The primary causes for crashes was driver distraction and inattention.

There are very few TT crashes and the reports I have seen do not support the idea that they are caused by loss of control due to not having some magical sway device.

As 2air' demonstrates, there are many ways to a safe result even without 'certification'. The first step is paying attention to your rig and your driving.
__________________
bryanl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2010, 09:25 AM   #22
Patriotic
 
Chuck's Avatar

 
1973 23' Safari
North of Boston , Massachusetts
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,533
Images: 260
I don't understand how this concept is different from "electronic stability control", where the computer can control each wheel brake independently. How does this extend to the trailer's brake system, which, as far as I understand, is still only one circuit for all wheels?
__________________
Air:291
Wbcci: 3752
'73 Safari 23'
'00 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 QC
Chuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2010, 09:51 AM   #23
2 Rivet Member
 
my1ststream's Avatar
 
1963 24' Tradewind
St Louis , Missouri
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 28
Images: 1
Why do you guys keep buying fords anyway
__________________
my1ststream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2010, 10:34 AM   #24
Tom, the Uber Disney Fan
 
Minnie's Mate's Avatar
 
2006 30' Safari
Orlando , Florida
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,693
Images: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by midstream View Post
Why do you guys keep buying fords anyway
Because we bought our first...owner satisfaction influences future purchases. Including the Ford I owned when I got married plus two Expeditions we bought for my wife and the three trucks (F150 + F250 + F250) we have owned 6 Fords and see no reason to change horses in the middle of this stream.
__________________
2006 30' Safari - "Changes in Latitudes"
2008 F-250 Lariat Power Stroke Diesel Crew Cab SWB
Family of Disney Fanatics
WBCCI# 4821
http://streaminacrossamerica.com/
Minnie's Mate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2010, 11:23 AM   #25
Patriotic
 
Chuck's Avatar

 
1973 23' Safari
North of Boston , Massachusetts
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,533
Images: 260
yeah...."Don't"

Don't Change Horses (In the Middle of a Stream) | Tower Of Power Song - Yahoo! Music
__________________
Air:291
Wbcci: 3752
'73 Safari 23'
'00 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 QC
Chuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2010, 01:18 PM   #26
Rivet Master
 
Aviator's Avatar

 
1997 34' Limited
1970 27' Overlander
South of Atlanta , Georgia
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,655
Images: 2
Those of us who buy Fords have usually had a positive experience in the past. I am on my second Ford truck which is one of five Fords I own or have owned. The first being an '87 Mustang which was loads of fun. Currently I have running Fords from a 1928 Modal A Tudor, 1968 Mustang GT, and the newest 2009 F150. All are great vehicles.
__________________
Craig and Carol
1997 34' Excella 1000
1970 27' Overlander, International
2009 Ford F150 5.4L
ProPride hitch with 1400# bars

AIR 41028
TAC GA-8
WBCCI 10199
Past President Southeastern Camping Unit (12)
Aviator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2010, 11:25 PM   #27
Rivet Master
 
ROBERTSUNRUS's Avatar

 
2005 25' Safari
Salem , Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,269
Images: 18
Blog Entries: 51
Thank You for asking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by my1ststream View Post
Why do you guys keep buying fords anyway

Hi, for me, our family had mostly Ford products and had better luck with them. I have owned close to fifty vehicles and only about four were not Ford products. I have worked at new car dealers since 1968; Two Chevrolet dealers, One Oldsmobile/GMC dealer, and the rest Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury dealers. My one, and only, Chevrolet had two engines replaced within 45,000 miles and the trans replaced at 25,000 miles. Luck of the draw, but convinced me to stick with my Fords. Need I say anymore?
__________________
Bob

2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent"
[ Small Silver Castle ]
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
ROBERTSUNRUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2010, 07:07 AM   #28
Rivet Master
 
Road Ruler's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
St. Catharines , South Western Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,364
Images: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryanl View Post

The 2006 crash book for Nevada, for instance, cites 2 TT crashes out of something like 111,000 crashes in that year. The primary causes for crashes was driver distraction and inattention.

There are very few TT crashes and the reports I have seen do not support the idea that they are caused by loss of control due to not having some magical sway device.

The first step is paying attention to your rig and your driving.
Some good points Bryan.... " paying attention to your rig and driving"


I believe " paying attention to your rig " covers most of the bases which could include your vehicle type and option selection (as in stability control devices).

Operator driving skills and attention levels vary and will only get one so far.

How many folks have a less "than optimal" set up connection? (80%).

How many folks have made an unintentional driving or an attentive error at one time or another (est 99.9%)

In these cases electronic stability controls will kick in and help.
__________________

__________________
Airstreams..... The best towing trailers on the planet!
Road Ruler is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Do I NEED sway control?? THEPILL Hitches, Couplers & Balls 513 04-13-2016 06:46 AM
sway control? barts Hitches, Couplers & Balls 101 01-20-2010 03:57 AM
L-pins are grinding against the sway bars on my Equal-i-zer sway control hitch Simoneau Hitches, Couplers & Balls 9 06-20-2009 09:28 AM
do I need sway control? soultrip11 Hitches, Couplers & Balls 5 03-14-2003 11:46 AM
Sway Control WayWard Wind Hitches, Couplers & Balls 24 03-12-2003 09:21 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.