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Old 01-31-2013, 10:51 PM   #15
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Ditto on the Jetta TDI (45+mpg for us) and the Amarok, barts.

doug k
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:23 PM   #16
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Very interesting!
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Old 02-02-2013, 12:21 AM   #17
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Hi, My wife owns a BMW X-3 and we love it. It may, someday, be replaced with a BMW X-1. I personally don't like, or care for, the BMW X-5; I like my Lincoln better. I would not tow anything with an X-3 or X-1. [my opinion]
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Old 02-02-2013, 05:37 AM   #18
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Thanks for chiming in with the Jetta TDI towing fuel economy figures. I have wondered how well these did towing.

Question. I have an 09 Jetta 2.0 turbo and an 02 BMW 330ci. Any preference on either of these towing a Caravel? Just in case I can't swing the X1 SAV.

Thanks for all your knowledge and the help you provide to the forum members. You really are appreciated.

Thanks, Dan

Hi Dan Sorry I am so long getting back to this. Both the Jetta and 330 will easily tow the Caravel. The BMW will have more flat out acceleration but in lower RPM ranges the Jetta will outperform it. The 330 handles amazing but the Jetta with Caravel is not a problem at all. Fuel economy is much better with the Jetta of coarse. I have not towed a 60's Airstream as yet but I would not be surprised if you see 25 MPG quite easily. Do you have the DSG or the manual transmission? How many miles are on the Jetta?

Andrew T.
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Old 02-02-2013, 05:47 AM   #19
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"Andy

Thanks for chiming in with the Jetta TDI towing fuel economy figures. I have wondered how well these did towing.

Question. I have an 09 Jetta 2.0 turbo and an 02 BMW 330ci. Any preference on either of these towing a Caravel? Just in case I can't swing the X1 SAV.

Thanks for all your knowledge and the help you provide to the forum members. You really are appreciated.

Thanks, Dan"


Hi Dan

I am sorry I took so long to get back to you. Either the 330 or the Jetta will tow your 24' very nicely. I would not be surprised if you saw 25 MPG with the Jetta.

The BMW of coarse handles amazing solo and this translates into extreamly stable towing as well. The BMW will have more flat out acceleration but the low end torque of the deisel will make it feel just as powerful 98% of the time. So below 3000 RPM they would have about the same performance over that the BMW will have considerably more. So I think it gets down to which one you like better and the fuel economy trade off.

Is the Jetta a DSG or Manual? How many miles do you have on it?

Andrew T
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Old 02-02-2013, 06:47 AM   #20
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I average 22mpg in my Ecoboost Ford Flex driving to work, about 20km each way on rural roads. The best my Tundra gets is 20mpg on a flat highway at no faster than 100km/h, although I average 18mpg when I drive in the city and 14mpg towing on flat ground, 12kmg in the mountains.
I can't imagine any suv getting 34mpg empty or 20mpg towing, and the BMW would require premium fuel which costs around $1.50/L or $5.50/gallon here right now .
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:13 AM   #21
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The new diesel Grand Cherokee is claiming 30mpg.
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:25 AM   #22
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Fuel economy is a function of vehicle weight, aerodynamics, engine characterisitics, driving style, and terrain. There are great advances in managing these factors and achieving new levels of performance. But the limits are established by the laws of physics and fluid dynamics. When you hang an additional 3000 lbs and a large additional aerodynamic drag on these wonders, their performance will decline dramatically. I am pesonally quite doubtful that their fuel economy performance will be degraded as little as represented by some of the hopes expressed here.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:27 AM   #23
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Hi from AZ. . . Andrew tows with a Jetta ?? Unbelieveable. I had to get rid of a Jetta because it was SO unreliable, of course mostly related to that funky VR6 motor. It was a fun car to drive but. . .! That VW pickup with the twin turbo diesel looks pretty cool, are they available in the states ? Interesting thread, towing with a Bring Money Withya sounds like it would work with a not too big an AS... regards, Craig
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:57 AM   #24
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Whizzo (post 11)

I am amazed at the fuel economy of the X1 SAV. It is about the same size as a VW Tiguan, which also has a turbo 4, but the Tiguan only gets 26 highway while the X1 gets 34. The only reasons I can think of are direct injection, aerodynamics and the 8 speed tranny. My 6 speed Jetta Turbo 4 turns 2,400 rpm @60 while my Tundra 5.7L 6 speed loafs along at only 1,500 rpm. When I drove the X1, I noticed that it only turned 1,400 rpm @ 60 mph. I have never heard of such low rpm cruising from a 4 cylinder motor. I suppose it is possible because of the 258 lb-ft or torque at only 1,250 rpm. Anyhow this is probably the biggest reason for the dramatic increase in fuel economy.

The European Westfalia hitch is rated to tow 4,400 lbs.

Andy (post 18)

Sorry about the confusion. Both my Jetta and BMW are gassers. The VW has the 2.0L turbo 4 and the BMW has the 3.0L 6 cylinder. Both are manual transmission.

My 2002 BMW 330 ci coupe has 204,000 trouble free miles- the best car I have ever owned. The 2009 Jetta Wolfsburg (wifes car) has only 67,000 miles. My wife's old Jetta turbo 4 manual has 168,000 miles and they have been trouble free.

AldeanFan (post 20)

I don't really look at the X1 as an SUV. It is not as tall as most SUV's. I view it more as a 4 door hatch back or a small wagon. The not being tall helps for the highway 34 mpg, but I think the biggest factor is the 8 speed tranny and the low rpm at cruising speeds.

We use regular in my wife's Jetta turbos that call for premium fuel. We get 34 mpg highway for the 02 model that is rated at 31 mpg highway. The 09 only gets 31 mpg same as it is rated.

Dan
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:17 AM   #25
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I don't really look at the X1 as an SUV. It is not as tall as most SUV's. I view it more as a 4 door hatch back or a small wagon.

Dan
Yes, saw my first X1 SAV on the road yesterday. My thoughts were a sporty raised wagon. I really liked it.
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:03 AM   #26
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If you don't need an SUV the Passat Diesel should to well over 20 towing and of coarse amazing mileage solo.

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Andy, I just bought a 2013 Passat TDi in December to use for towing whatever I decide to get in a couple of years. I was planning on going with a fiberglass Casita 17' but a shorter Airstream would work if I found a deal when I get ready. I'm easily getting 44 to 50 MPG on many excursions. Of course, I have to make a trip up northfor a hitch before I do.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:41 PM   #27
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Don

The Passat TDI would definately be more fuel efficient that the BMW X1 for towing. However I would buy a BMW X1 for the following reasons.

1. The Passat is too large. We have an 02 TC 1.8L Jetta and an 09 TC 2.0 Jetta. We like the size of the 02 better.

2. I like a hatchback. I thought about the Tiguan, but it is way behind the eight ball compared to the X1.

3. I am a car guy- nuff said.

4. I like turbo charged gas motors. The BMW has impressive torque and power numbers.

5. The BMW X1 would be great fun to drive solo, plus it will tow a small Airstream.

6. Better towing stability with the BMW with the short overhang.

The Jetta is a great choice, just different strokes for different folks.

Don, glad to see you on Airforums. I read a lot of your amazing writings about 15 years ago when I bought my 84 Excella and was learning about Airstreams.

Dan
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Old 02-23-2013, 05:53 AM   #28
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Hi Don

We have been running a Taurus SHO for a couple of years now with the turbo charged 3.5 Litre. We just picked up a Taurus with the naturally aspirated 3.5 that we will have for the next couple of months. I am curious to do a fuel economy test with the the two of them. I have a computer in the SHO that shows boost pressure, exhaust temp and timing advance. What I notice is that once the motor gets over 5 PSI of boost the timing retards dramatically and the fuel economy drops way off.

Most of our customers with F150's with echoboost are pretty happy with the mileage towing Airstream's but I have noticed those with box trailers are not finding them as good as their previous V8 trucks when towing. I think this is likely due to the engine being deeper into boost when they are towing the box.

The last turbo charged tow vehicle we had was a 2005 PT cruiser with a 2.5 Litre Turbo. It was a fun car and the mileage was good if you took it easy but I noticed when towing with it fuel economy was not outstanding. I used to do a frequent round trip of 240 miles to my daughters school. If I was driving at higher speeds and a little aggressively the PT use more fuel than the 4.6 Northstar in our Cadillac Deville.

So I wonder a little how well the 2.0 Litre Gas Turbo's will do towing. I am going to try and get my hands on one of the new Escape 2.0 Litres to try out sometime and see how it does.

Andrew T
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