Need advice from an experienced tow person not truck salesman

[SteveH]

I went on a road trip with a person who had an identical tow vehicle to mine except it was a V-10. We drove at the same speeds. He got 9 to 11 mph which is what I got with my last gas tow vehicle.

That doesn't surprize me at all. Assuming it was a Ford, that's one of the most fuel thirsty vehicles on the road.

[Airperson]

Next question:
If you could choose any Magnificent Towing Beast known to man (money being no object) which one would you choose and what extras would you have installed. I would just like to know what the experts hold as the top of the line…. Airperson

[GStephens]

I'd choose and did choose an F-250 Crew Cab diesel. With the 3/4 ton you have the Tow Haul transmission which virtually eliminates braking while going down mountain passes. You have tow vehicle brakes that are much, much more robust, you have enhanced cooling, more stable 16" tires, enhanced suspension, etc, etc. With a Chevy or GMC diesel, you'd have virtually the same enhancements, just go 3/4 ton. With the 3/4 ton, you won't need a lot of enhancements other than what trim level you desire. Pretty much all the needed towing enhancements will come with the truck. You will be pleased with the 3/4 ton.
GStephens

[drm101]

We towed our 23 foot A/S (4500 loaded) with our 2005 Grand Cherokee(Hemi) as well as our 2002 4.7L Dakota with no issues. The Hemi has buckets of torque and easily pulled this trailer. With the Dakota, I knew it was back there, as the 4.7L just doesn't have the grunt that the Hemi has. We just have one 6 year old, so the Grand Cherokee had plenty of room. We really like the Grand Cherokee since we could get into just about any camping spot, anywhere. We pulled into a campground in Midland after some serious rain. I pulled into the assigned spot and the Jeep and trailer sunk into mud. The Jeep was in a few inches of clay/mud but the trailer was up to it's axle. We had a nice crowd of help. After getting out and assessing, we decided reverse was our only way out. We slipped and slid a little but the Jeep found traction and pushed the trailer out. I was so proud I almost cried. We get 12-13 mpg around Michigan pulling the trailer. I've got 19 MPG at 50 mph out of the Jeep. Most times it's 16-17 mpg. Just bought an '08 Hemi Ram quad cab (which we love too) and we're headed to Wyoming next month, so I'll have mileage info after that. My Dakota was by far the most dependable and well built vehicle I have owned. It never went back to the dealer. I had to replace the gas cap once and did front brakes every 20K, but otherwise it was flawless and did not a have a rattle or squeak when I sold it at 90K miles.
Regards,
Dean
Marshall's Corner Shop
Clarkston, MI

[drm101]

Sorry for the second post. I didn't realize the first was there.
Dean

[purman]

My Sequoia and the tundra have over 400 ft lbs of torque and a 4:1 rear end. I get about 12-14 mph towing. Once you go over 65mph it goes down . I live in colorado with 11,000 ft passes and have never lacked for power. Even when I towed my friends 2004 28' safari. which is nearly 2000 lbs heavier than my '68.

I have never been over a pass that I couldn't have gone faster up.. But then some you just don't want to go fast up...

The Tundra would also work and CrafordGene tows his 25' and loves it.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by Airperson

Next question:
If you could choose any Magnificent Towing Beast known to man (money being no object) which one would you choose and what extras would you have installed. I would just like to know what the experts hold as the top of the line…. Airperson

Remember that years ago, most large size cars, pulled 31 foot Airstreams, all over the world.

To buy a truck that has the ability to tow the Queen Mary, is a waste of money, and if it has rigid suspension, such as a 4 X 4 then many times it all by itself, will induce damages to the trailer.

Excessive torsion bars ratings, also contribute to trailer damages.

Andy

[Airperson]

Andy, Appreciate your expert opinion. However, I am a total newbie. I really would like to know which truck and its configuration would do the deed and not hurt my o6 classic.
I want as much truck as I need for towing in mountains yet I don’t want to damage our Classic 25 ft.. I have other cars for daily transport. Airperson

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Remember that years ago, most large size cars, pulled 31 foot Airstreams, all over the world.

To buy a truck that has the ability to tow the Queen Mary, is a waste of money, and if it has rigid suspension, such as a 4 X 4 then many times it all by itself, will induce damages to the trailer.

Excessive torsion bars ratings, also contribute to trailer damages.

Andy

Andy,

Not in any way disputing your word, but I would state that in the 70's, a 31' Airstream weighed around 5000 pounds, dry. In 2003 (the lasted data I have on file) a 31 footer weighed 7600 pounds dry. I would say that would be a very significant load for any "large car", even of yesteryear.

A current 25 footer weighs around 6000 pounds dry. By the time you load everything in the tow vehicle you are going to take, and everything in the trailer, this is a weight that requires at a minimum, at tow package equipped 1/2 ton truck. But, this is only my opinion.

[Airperson]

Steve, Have been trying to pull the 25 ft. classic with a f150 with a low 3 something rear and towing pkg. with a reese eq. hitch.
It is not where it is at... Airperson

[blacksheep]

Airperson,

If you want to tow in the mountains quite a bit then get a diesel with an exhaust brake. The new Dodge comes with a 6 spd auto that is built to tow and has an integrated exhaust brake as part of the turbocharger. Your fuel mileage will be better than any gas rig and you won't wear it out (my '01 Dodge has 747,xxx miles, mostly towing something). There is no need to change the oil until the 10k mile mark unless it is used as a commuter, then I would go 5k.

If you want to buy used, find an '07 Dodge 5.9 Cummins.

Godspeed,
Trent

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by Airperson

Steve, Have been trying to pull the 25 ft. classic with a f150 with a low 3 something rear and towing pkg. with a reese eq. hitch.
It is not where it is at... Airperson

Ah, but you've been using an older 150 with the 5.0 engine. The newer bigger engines have much better power, and the newer 1/2 ton trucks have much better capacities. And, you will note I said "at a minimum".

I currently tow a very simular trailer to yours (an '01 25' Excella, 6200 lbs) with an '07 GMC 1/2 ton, Extended cab, tow package equipped, with good results. Do I have to gear down on the steep grades? Sure, as do even the Diesels.

You will not buy a reasonably sized tow vehicle that will run up all the passes in the Rockies pulling that trailer at highway speeds in high gear.

[SteveH]

Simular thread, pretty much the same topic:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...-as-52641.html

[Gene]

A'person, you are finding there are strong opinions about tow vehicles. If you do a search you will find many identical threads about this.

I'm the guy purman mentioned. We have taken our Safari over 12,000' passes here in Colorado with no problem with our 2nd generation 2007 Tundra with 5.7L engine, tow and TRD packages. If you want to go over the passes at 65 you can, but you will use a lot of gas. The Tundra is 375 HP and 401 lbs. of torque. It has massive disc brakes on all 4 wheels, 6 speed transmission. It has no problem matching any 3/4 ton in power. It is rated as a 1/2 ton, though it seems to be built to be easily converted to a 3/4 ton truck when Toyota decides to market one with few changes. It is not true that only a diesel can cope with mountains. I think late model American trucks have comparable gas engines as well.

Your Classic weighs 5,700 empty according to what you posted and probably about 7,000-7,400 when loaded to maximum rating. Check on the inside of the wardrobe door for more info on that. Tongue weight is probably around 780.

The thing about half ton trucks is they have less payload than 3/4 ton trucks. The newer ones have plenty of power and can tow big heavy trailers, but the payload can be the stopper. CanoeStream was saying that some posts ago. You can find threads on how to calculate payload and how weight distributing hitches affect tongue weight. You also need to check various truck manufacturer's method of calculating payload. For ex., Toyota gives numbers with the gas tank full and the coolant full. Other companies may not do that. Check everything carefully. Different trim lines can have different payloads. It takes some reading and calculating to feel comfortable about this. Take your time to figure this out.

You will find people recommending to leave a safety margin and if payload is 1500 lbs., take about 85% (some say 80%, some say 90%), of that and don't calculate your probable payload to be more than that.

From my experience, you could probably tow your Classic with a Tundra. The Limited trim line and Crew Cab has lower payload than the SR5 Double Cab and standard cab. 4wd is necessary if you live in Colorado and some will say it's necessary when towing if you get on wet grass, sandy soil or other slippery places, but it does lower payload also. We have the 4wd, SR 5, Double Cab—lots of room in the cab, more payload, cheaper price.

Gene

[CanoeStream]

Gene, I'd agree with you that diesel is not necessary at all in the mountains. If my TV was going to be an every day commuter I think the engine warmups with diesel would be a pain. And parking a diesel for weeks isn't great for the fuel. Grades are usually pretty fair on interstates in the mountains with the few steeper sections unavoidable. There's nothing wrong with going 45 up the steep interstate inclines east of Seattle, west of Denver or wherever. I'd sure not power my diesel to be passing all the RVs in the right lane. Get in the wagon train y'all and don't be blowin' so much fuel out the tailpipe.

2airishuman's cat scale thread pointed out that loading on the trailer axles remains exactly the same with WD gear engaged. The corollary of this is that WD does not change tongue weight. The pounds just don't disappear.

Off-road packages on 1/2 ton trucks tend to have harsher springing and knobby noisy tires -- you don't want either of those IMO. 4WD definitely is useful. Full tow package with installed brake controller is getting to be the norm. A buddy just got that in an F-150 and I'm jealous. Payload capacities can be higher in Club Cab models -- just do the homework.

[purman]

First I would figure out if you want Diesel or Gas.

What does your trailer weigh dry? 6500 lbs? or less

Then 1/2 ton or 3/4

The 2 half tons most use are the tundra and new f150
They both tow over 10,000lbs

3/4 ton will work great also and you may get a good deal on one with dodge closing stores...

But don't forget the fords... I don't care for GMC or Chevy but thats just me...

[dstalzer]

I pull a 2005 AS Classic 25 with a 2007 F250SD Crew Cab 6.0L PowerStroke 4X4, 5 Spd Auto Trans, 4.10 gears and get between 11 and 14 MPG towing. Towing in the mountains is a breeze with the 6.0L PS Diesel. Previously I towed with a 2002 F250SD Extended Cab 5.4L Gas 2X4 4 Spd Auto Trans, 3.73 gears. There is no comparison between the two. The 5.4 did not have the torque to get over the slightest hill without downshifting 2 gears. In the mountains it was a nightmare, just crawling up the steep grades. Previous to the 2002 F250, I had a 1998 F250 standard cab long bed with the 4.6L engine, auto trans and 3.73 gears. The step up to the F250SD from the F250 made a real difference in how it handled the trailer, which at that time was around 4000 Lbs loaded. With the 98 F250, I always felt like the trailer was in control, but with the F250SD trucks, the truck is in control. I feel like a 1/2 ton truck would be scary in the mountains, especially with a 25' Classic. You will be much more relaxed towing with a 3/4 Ton truck and safer too. Unless you are doing a lot of mountain driving, the 3.73 axle and 2 wheel drive will give you better mileage.

[Gene]

Some thoughts about the price of diesel fuel. Historically it has been cheaper than gasoline and the engines got better mileage. But last year diesel was substantially higher in price and that wiped out the mileage advantage.

Why? Because there aren't enough refineries in the US to easily supply the diesel we use. We import gas from Europe, but Europe uses all their diesel and doesn't export it. Thus, a diesel shortage raising prices. Last winter US refineries started producing a larger proportion of diesel and prices dropped below that of gas again.

As more vehicles use diesel fuel because of better mileage, and US refineries may shift back to a greater proportion of gas production, and the recovery takes hold, prices of both fuels rise and diesel may again become more expensive than gas. You can add to cost that maintenance with a diesel engine is more expensive than a gas one.

Predicting the future is risky, but I think diesel shortages may occur in the future, and an engine that can run on gas and E-85 may be the best bet.

Getting further afield is the question whether we will be able to afford the fuel, no matter what it is, to tow a big heavy trailer around the country.

Other thought: different people have different stories about what feels right, what is safe, what is powerful enough, and so on. Some people say you can tow a 34' trailer with a big car, others that you need a 3/4 ton diesel truck to tow a 20' trailer. You have to decide what is best for you. For us, reliability was very important and since we've bought Toyotas, they have been as near flawless as any production truck can be. Since reliability is not the strong point of Airstreams, I want one vehicle that I don't have to fix on the road.

Gene

[SteveH]

Don't know how true it is, but I heard on the radio the other day that the reason Diesel fuel has come down in price is because the economic recession has hit other countries worse than the USA. And since the "other countries" use mostly Diesel, the price has come down due to lower demand. For the same reason they were predicting Diesel fuel would go up much higher than gasoline at such time as the world recovers from the recession/depression, if/when it does.

[blacksheep]

Airperson,


Are you sorry you asked yet???

Godspeed,
Trent