Mercedes ML350 Bluetec

[rostam]

Originally Posted by ciparis

Yep, I remember the early reports. I spoke with Andy just last week, though, it turns out that while he was initially hopeful that the factory hitch would be fine (because the hitch on the '12 and later is vastly better than the older models -- far heavier construction), it still has problems with WD on larger trailers (his opinion as supported by the ML he updated that had ended up with the twisted hitch from pulling a 25'), and he is recommending those users have their hitch reinforced.

That said, I agree that Kim is probably not going to run into that with their 19'. I'd still talk to Andy, though.

Just to be clear, the GL/ML hitch specifically supports WDH. The issues being reported here and there on hitch bending due to WDH use, is happening ONLY when the hitch is massively overloaded (say your tongue weight is > 1000#). This is not due to a flaw with the hitch design, rather due to ignoring the specs.

[MrUKToad]

There is an issue with the overall specification for hitches in North America, where the SAE underestimated the torque resistance required when using weight distribution when setting their original standards. It's eloquently explained in this VAP podcast by Andy Thompson and underlines why he has a business in strengthening and fabricating hitches. My apologies if I've infringed any copyrights here, I will gladly take the link down if required.

It's quite a long podcast and comes with a disclaimer at the beginning, which made me smile. Anyway, it's excellent listening if you're interested in hitches and towing

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wk481yrptv...p0196.mp3?dl=0

[jmpgino]

OK, I have a 20 ft FC being pulled by a Tahoe gas engine. I get 17 mpg when not pulling and it goes down to 12 when I am pulling the Airstream.
I thought if I went up to Diesel my return would be better. I have a chance of a 2012 ML Bluetec Diesel and specs say on highway the return is around 29 mpg. Looking at some posts here you boy's are only getting 15 mpg.
Having had many diesels in Europe that returned between 50 and 65 mpg, then having two big trucks that only returned around 17 mpg here in the USA, diesels tend not to loose mpg when pulling, my Chevy 2500 and Ford 250 lost nothing at all when pulling. I know these are different animals but I see no point in lashing out the cash for a Bluetec if the mpg return is rubbish. I had expected to see you talking about a drop from 29 mpg down to 23 mpg when pulling.
So please what is the deal here with this Bluetec, 3 mpg increase over the Tahoe does not convince me of going diesel again.
Thanks for the replying in advance.

[kimdrautz]

Originally Posted by jmpgino

OK, I have a 20 ft FC being pulled by a Tahoe gas engine. I get 17 mpg when not pulling and it goes down to 12 when I am pulling the Airstream.

I thought if I went up to Diesel my return would be better. I have a chance of a 2012 ML Bluetec Diesel and specs say on highway the return is around 29 mpg. Looking at some posts here you boy's are only getting 15 mpg.

Having had many diesels in Europe that returned between 50 and 65 mpg, then having two big trucks that only returned around 17 mpg here in the USA, diesels tend not to loose mpg when pulling, my Chevy 2500 and Ford 250 lost nothing at all when pulling. I know these are different animals but I see no point in lashing out the cash for a Bluetec if the mpg return is rubbish. I had expected to see you talking about a drop from 29 mpg down to 23 mpg when pulling.

So please what is the deal here with this Bluetec, 3 mpg increase over the Tahoe does not convince me of going diesel again.

Thanks for the replying in advance.

Jmpgino - I haven't pulled my Airstream with my Benz yet, but will reply again in a week when I make my way from Denver back to Des Moines. I've had my 2014 GL Bluetec for about 2 months and on a recent trip to Chicago towing a smaller two wheel trailer with a golf cart, I didn't lose any MPG...still maintained 28mpg entire trip. I know I'll lose more pulling the AS, but I would be doubtful I drop below 20. We shall see. I'll update and let you know next week.


Iowa Girl

[jmpgino]

Thank you for the reply young lady, I await the numbers. Drive with care.

Cheers
James.

[ciparis]

Originally Posted by mikapen

2.(...) There is a label on the hitch itself that shows its limitations, INCLUDING weight distribution

Originally Posted by rostam

Just to be clear, the GL/ML hitch specifically supports WDH.

Is there any official information on WDH limits? My '13 hitch data placard does not show anything about it. Mikapen, what does yours show?

[rostam]

Originally Posted by ciparis

Is there any official information on WDH limits? My '13 hitch data placard does not show anything about it. Mikapen, what does yours show?

On our '12 GL, per the hitch decal, the max tongue weight with/without WDH is 600#.

[ciparis]

So... for instance, if you have 770 lb hitch, you just need to transfer 170 lbs+ forward?

[mikapen]

My hitch data plate, on our 2010 ML is attached. Note the part number starts with A164....
For ML, it shows 7200 Max Trailer weight and 576 Max Tongue Weight, same ratings for "Weight Distribution" as "Weight Carrying."
Note that 576 is exactly 8% of the trailer weight. Same for the GL ratings.
As has been discussed elsewhere in this thread or forum, Europeans seem to be OK with 8%, and that may be all the science that is used to arrive at the 576 lb number.

Does that mean that if I am OK with 12%, then the number is 864? Probably not.
Does that mean that our ML's are stable with only 8% tongue weight? I dunno, but we're very stable at 10-11%.

Also notice that there is a diagram of ball height ranges and max distance from hitch hole to ball.

[mikapen]

Originally Posted by jmpgino

OK, I have a 20 ft FC being pulled by a Tahoe gas engine. I get 17 mpg when not pulling and it goes down to 12 when I am pulling the Airstream.
<snip>
I see no point in lashing out the cash for a Bluetec if the mpg return is rubbish. I had expected to see you talking about a drop from 29 mpg down to 23 mpg when pulling.
So please what is the deal here with this Bluetec, 3 mpg increase over the Tahoe does not convince me of going diesel again.
Thanks for the replying in advance.

It looks like you are a good gas-mileage driver. From what you are saying, I'd bet you can add 8 mpg to all your figures.

Here is my story:
Pulling our (SOB) 27' Lance on a 4000 mile trip, our average was 15.5, verified by hand. That included stop'n'go in Chicago for hours. Our worst on that trip, into 40 mph quartering headwind, gusts to 60 and semi's on their sides, was 12 (slowed to 50 mph). Our highest complete 25 gal tank was 22. (That's a day and a half on a tank!) At a steady 62 mph on flat ground, no wind, we get about 17-18 mpg.

If I really go for fuel economy and stay under 57 mph, we do see 19 - 25 mpg. Our Lance is nowhere near as aerodynamic as an Airstream. Over 68 and we're in 15 mpg territory. I don't drive 70 very often.

Not towing, our overall fuel economy is 26 mpg. Saw 39 over 45 miles last weekend, 45 mph, moderately hilly. Low 20's in town if I'm late for something. A similar 4000 mile trip netted 29.7.

But the BIG advantage is how much more authority your engine will have over your trailer, and how little your transmission will shift.
It's like they posted a "No Hunting" sign on your transmission!

[jmpgino]

The question is what does the Lance weigh, dry I am about 3,800 lbs. I met a bloke who had something 27 long and topped the scales at 11,500 lbs, hell I would have the wife out pushing that mother up hills........

[mikapen]

As completed at the factory, our Lance weighed in at 4561 lbs. Ready for travel with full water tank and fridge, we're about 5500 lbs.

[2012FB]

I tow a fully loaded 25FB with a 14 ML350 Blutec with reinforced hitch and receiver setup from CANAM. It is a dream compared to the several previous large diesel truck based tow vehicles. We have been west coast, east coast and all over Colorado. The only issue is pulling long hard grades 6-7% over 5 miles (East bound Eisenhower Tunnel and Rabbit Ears Pass) in forth the temp will start to climb until I turn off the AC and run the heat maximum hot for the 10 or so minutes it takes to crest the top. I am confident it would not overheat but why push it when I don't have to. I could slow down as well but.. Mileage has varied from 13-19 depending on speed, temp and wind conditions.

Personally having towed with a host of vehicles over the last 25 years I find the ML350 to be the best overall TV we have owned.

Maintenance costs are not a big factor to me compared to quality, ride, safety, reliability/durability, resale, and overall enjoyment the other 95% that we are not towing.

Yes, I test drove and considered most of the other options mentioned.

[whippet201]

Hi, I am planning on buying a new airstream in the next few weeks. My dream is to get the 2015 International Signature 23D travel trailer. My TV is a 2013 Mercedes ML350 Blue Tech. I was getting worried about towing capacity after reading some other posts on the issue, so it it very reassuring to hear it should not be an issue. Right? I currently tow a 2000 lb ALiner Expedition and I hardly know it is there. I just need reassurance I guess. Thanks.

[kimdrautz]

Originally Posted by kimdrautz

Jmpgino - I haven't pulled my Airstream with my Benz yet, but will reply again in a week when I make my way from Denver back to Des Moines. I've had my 2014 GL Bluetec for about 2 months and on a recent trip to Chicago towing a smaller two wheel trailer with a golf cart, I didn't lose any MPG...still maintained 28mpg entire trip. I know I'll lose more pulling the AS, but I would be doubtful I drop below 20. We shall see. I'll update and let you know next week.


Iowa Girl

Hi - I got 24mpg on the way to Denver, going 80mph almost the entire way, no trailer attached. On the way home, I kept steady at 75mph, towing my 19' International and got 15 mpg.


Iowa Girl

[cory_can]

Originally Posted by kimdrautz

Hi - I got 24mpg on the way to Denver, going 80mph almost the entire way, no trailer attached. On the way home, I kept steady at 75mph, towing my 19' International and got 15 mpg.


Iowa Girl

Why so fast? 120km/h? There's a sweet spot in engine efficiency typically around 65 or slightly lower (~102km/h). That small decrease makes a significant difference in economy.....not to mention it's safer for towing, especially with a light single axle.

[jmpgino]

So towing with this diesel engine at between 60 and 65 mph with a 20 footer, I would expect a mpg return of around 22, ten miles per gallon better than now.
My friend has the Jeep diesel and is towing a 25 footer and getting around 19 mpg. Wider, higher and heavier are obvious reasons for his loss in mpg.
We are relatively flat here and many of you up North are in hilly if not mountainous areas and that is where the fuel is consumed in quantity.
Going down to Florida soon, a very flat drive all the way. I am keen to see what the Tahoe does on that journey.

[ciparis]

[switz]

V6 diesel engine not available for next model year for the ML class in the US.

A 4 cylinder turbo diesel will be the diesel choice.

The V8 turbo diesel option for the GL is not available in the US either.

[cory_can]

Originally Posted by switz

V6 diesel engine not available for next model year for the ML class in the US.



A 4 cylinder turbo diesel will be the diesel choice.



The V8 turbo diesel option for the GL is not available in the US either.

I've heard that, but have you seen power figures? The Blutec is such a good seller on the ML I would be very surprised if they didn't find very close to V6 power numbers in the 4 diesel before switching. The efficiency will be greater but I would be interested in seeing TRQ/HP numbers.

Mercedes is making 360Hp/330trq out of a 2L 4 cylinder petrol engine so I can imagine they could make very decent power out of a small displacement diesel.