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Old 11-09-2014, 12:15 AM   #141
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Did I read you correctly Switz, no MB 350 diesel for 2015 and after models?

From what I can discern from the MB website, the 250 diesel is smaller, lesser specs

Not sure Id be comfy hauling a 25-27' AS with anything smaller than the 3.0

If I was buying now, probably go Grand Cherokee or VW/Audi.
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Old 11-10-2014, 03:48 AM   #142
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Since the car is made in Alabama for the world, I just checked the UK website and apparently the 3.0 liter V6 diesel can be installed probably anywhere but the USA.

A previous poster mentioned there are diesel options for ALL the Mercedes models and that is true for non USA models.
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Old 11-13-2014, 08:35 PM   #143
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FYI, Mercedes Canada will be offering 2015 MLs with the 3.0l diesel. The 4 cyl oil burner is not offered up here with the ML.
It's not such a big thing to import a CDN spec car into the US.
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Old 11-13-2014, 08:51 PM   #144
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Mercedes ML350 Bluetec

Soon to be called GLE.

Or GLE350d more specifically

GL to GLS
GLK to GLC
G stay as G...as in Gangster
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Old 11-14-2014, 05:03 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by cory_can View Post
Soon to be called GLE.

Or GLE350d more specifically

GL to GLS
GLK to GLC
G stay as G...as in Gangster
Not so sure on the number designation. Could be GLE250d, and then we could even see a hybrid GLE400h Mercedes-Benz ML Plug-in Hybrid Spy Shots Photo Gallery - Autoblog Sounds a bit too much Lexi to me!
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Old 11-14-2014, 06:59 AM   #146
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Only the US market denies the existence of the diesel engine option on nearly every model of Mercedes. Big oil does not want economic vehicles here.

.
I'm surprised everyone in the US doesn't see that.

Diesel is 90 cents more than reg now. Duh
Diesel trucks getting how much less mpg in the last few yrs? Duh
Premium cost how much more than reg? Duh
Diesel engine cost how much more? Duh
There is no oil shortage. Duh
I could go on and on.......................

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Old 11-15-2014, 05:41 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by switz
Only the US market denies the existence of the diesel engine option on nearly every model of Mercedes. Big oil does not want economic vehicles here.
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Originally Posted by r carl View Post
I'm surprised everyone in the US doesn't see that.
That is because its not the case. It is a matter of supply and demand combined with government regulatory mandates.

National Association of Convenience Stores analyzed it:

" Diesel is powering an increasing number of passenger vehicles in the U.S. and abroad and there was a 27% increase in clean diesel vehicle sales in 2011.

NACS says the increased cost of diesel is a function of four factors.

> First, the price of diesel is pushed higher by strong demand outside of the U.S. The U.S. is a gasoline-dominant motor fuels market. 98 percent of passenger vehicles are powered by gasoline with fewer than 2 percent powered by diesel fuel. Consequently, the refining infrastructure is designed for optimum efficiency in producing gasoline. From a typical 42-gallon barrel of oil, the refining process delivers around 18 to 21 gallons of gasoline and 10 to 12 gallons of distillate (diesel fuel) plus some other refined products. Refinery yields can be tweaked but to produce significantly more distillate (diesel fuel) they would need to undergo significant upgrades costing billions.

Outside of the U.S. other countries are much more reliant on diesel. In Europe, for instance, diesel is used in the majority of new passenger vehicles sold there. Strong international demand for diesel --for both passenger vehicles and industrial machinery-- has placed a premium on diesel fuel imports.

> Second, here in the U.S. the Energy Dept. says overall gas consumption has declined by 5 percent since 2004 while diesel demand has increased by 29 percent over the same period. In response, refineries have increased diesel production 15.1 percent, boosting diesel yield from a barrel of oil from 23.9% to 27.5%.

> Third, the introduction of Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD),which was gradually phased into the market between 2006 and 2010 to replace the on-highway diesel fuel known as Low Sulfur Diesel(LSD) mandated by the Environmental Protection Agency, required approximately $8 billion in refinery infrastructure upgrades. Naturally, that cost was passed on to you, the consumer. The Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel added about 10 cents a gallon to the cost.

> And last but not least, taxes. The federal tax on diesel is 24.4 cents per gallon, versus 18.4 cents for gasoline. The last increase was in the early '90s and tht's when diesel was generally less expensive than gasoline."
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Old 11-15-2014, 01:04 PM   #148
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That is because its not the case. It is a matter of supply and demand combined with government regulatory mandates.

National Association of Convenience Stores analyzed it:

" Diesel is powering an increasing number of passenger vehicles in the U.S. and abroad and there was a 27% increase in clean diesel vehicle sales in 2011.

NACS says the increased cost of diesel is a function of four factors.

> First, the price of diesel is pushed higher by strong demand outside of the U.S. The U.S. is a gasoline-dominant motor fuels market. 98 percent of passenger vehicles are powered by gasoline with fewer than 2 percent powered by diesel fuel. Consequently, the refining infrastructure is designed for

optimum efficiency in producing gasoline.
From a typical 42-gallon barrel of oil, the refining process delivers around 18 to 21 gallons of gasoline and 10 to 12 gallons of distillate (diesel fuel) plus some other refined products. Refinery yields can be tweaked but to produce significantly more distillate (diesel fuel) they would need to undergo significant upgrades costing billions.




Outside of the U.S. other countries are much more reliant on diesel. In Europe, for instance, diesel is used in the majority of new passenger vehicles sold there. Strong international demand for diesel --for both passenger vehicles and industrial machinery-- has placed a premium on diesel fuel imports.

> Second, here in the U.S. the Energy Dept. says overall gas consumption has declined by 5 percent since 2004 while diesel demand has increased by 29 percent over the same period. In response, refineries have increased diesel production 15.1 percent, boosting diesel yield from a barrel of oil from 23.9% to 27.5%.

> Third, the introduction of Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD),which was gradually phased into the market between 2006 and 2010 to replace the on-highway diesel fuel known as Low Sulfur Diesel(LSD) mandated by the Environmental Protection Agency, required approximately $8 billion in refinery infrastructure upgrades. Naturally, that cost was passed on to you, the consumer. The Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel added about 10 cents a gallon to the cost.

> And last but not least, taxes. The federal tax on diesel is 24.4 cents per gallon, versus 18.4 cents for gasoline. The last increase was in the early '90s and tht's when diesel was generally less expensive than gasoline."

Sound reasoning.

Does anyone know what the true cost of operating a diesel vs. gas engine is?

You would need to figure in the capital cost for the diesel as well as the avg. mileage and avg. fuel costs

I wonder over several years where the delta is?
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Old 11-15-2014, 02:04 PM   #149
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It depends on the vehicle. Cost premium for diesel engine at purchase, costs of service, mpg comparisons, and resale. Lots of ways to spin it.
But one undeniable advantage of diesel is towing ability over similar sized gasoline engines.
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Old 11-15-2014, 02:08 PM   #150
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Sound reasoning.

Does anyone know what the true cost of operating a diesel vs. gas engine is?

You would need to figure in the capital cost for the diesel as well as the avg. mileage and avg. fuel costs

I wonder over several years where the delta is?
Depends very much on which specific vehicle, what your local fuel costs are (the gasoline/diesel spread varies geographically), the seasonal nature of your fuel costs (diesel gets used as heating fuel in winter so gets more expensive in winter in some markets), and how much you drive.

I did several analyses for a BMW X5 3.0 gasoline vs 3.0 diesel, between 2011 and 2014. Same maintenance cost for four years (included in purchase price). Local (Vancouver) fuel prices. In 2011 there was a $4500 premium for the diesel (we never had an eco credit), and the payback was over 80,000 km to get to break even. In 2014 I had the benefit of looking at three year residuals for the 2011 models, and saw that diesels were not commanding a premium in the resale market here. Fuel prices had changed somewhat, diesel purchase premium had come down to $1500 but in the meantime the launch of the direct injection turbocharged 3.0 gasoline engine had improved the operating costs of the gasoline option. The payback was still over 80,000 km to break even. My conclusion was that I should buy what I liked in terms of the driving experience, that life cycle costs really weren't a deciding factor.

I looked at tow capabilities, and they were rated the same, but the gasoline engine had more hp, less peak torque, but a wider rpm operating range at peak torque. One advantage was the diesel used the heavier version of the ZF 8HP transmission, with a higher flywheel torque capacity rating.

YMMV, or should I say, your costs will vary, depending on the input figures.

Jeff
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Old 11-16-2014, 10:45 AM   #151
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Just FYI, The ML250 Bluetec (so badged) are now appearing on the lots. Saw two at my local dealer yesterday. EPA rating of 22/29.

Did not test drive but thought about it.
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Old 11-16-2014, 11:23 PM   #152
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I was under the impression that the 250 was going to be a big improvement over the 350. Not so much.


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Old 11-28-2014, 10:17 AM   #153
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Did I read you correctly Switz, no MB 350 diesel for 2015 and after models?

From what I can discern from the MB website, the 250 diesel is smaller, lesser specs

Not sure Id be comfy hauling a 25-27' AS with anything smaller than the 3.0

If I was buying now, probably go Grand Cherokee or VW/Audi.
I just took delivery of a 2015 GL350. I can assure you that it has a 3L turbodeisel V6 with 240hp and 455 ft-kb torque. Will be setting it up to haul a 25' Flying Cloud and expect it to tow with ease.
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Old 11-28-2014, 10:34 AM   #154
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I just took delivery of a 2015 GL350. I can assure you that it has a 3L turbodeisel V6 with 240hp and 455 ft-kb torque. Will be setting it up to haul a 25' Flying Cloud and expect it to tow with ease.

The discussion was ML/GLE downsizing engines, not GL/GLS.
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