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Old 02-13-2017, 09:52 AM   #1
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Making Myself Crazy....

Alright I know this has been discussed over and over. However, I guess I just need reassurance, as I am making myself nuts.

I have a 2014 Ram 1500 Laramie Longhorn. Sticker on the door shows 907 Payload. Print of from Ram shows 1,180.

I have ordered a 2017 Tommy Bahama Trailer.

Stated weights are:

929 Hitch (including LP and Batteries)
6396 Base (with LP & Batteries)
GVWR 7600.

Ram has plenty of capcity for everything except Payload. Payload on this truck sucks. I really don't want to buy a new truck right now with the expense of the new trailer.

I will put WD hitch, but this is where I'm making myself nuts. I have a feeling that no matter what I do, I'm going to exceed payload.

Anyone in a similar situation and what did you do?
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Old 02-13-2017, 09:57 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Drennanb View Post
Anyone in a similar situation and what did you do?
I bought another truck. It isn't what I wanted to have to do, but it's what I needed to do for safety and reliability reasons. Enjoy that new trailer - those look great!
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Old 02-13-2017, 10:06 AM   #3
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Have you actually weighed your truck? Load it up ready to tow, full fuel, etc. and go to the nearest CAT scale. Put each axle on a separate pad and get the weights. Now you have something to work with. Subtract your rear axle weight from the Rear Axle Weight Rating and you know how much you can safely add there.

A weight distributing hitch spreads the hitch weight forward to the front axle and backward to the trailer, as well as having some on the rear axle. You will get varying opinions as to whether you should figure all of the hitch weight on the rear axle or whether only a third of it goes there.

Perhaps a bigger question is your Gross COMBINED Vehicle Weight Rating. Go back to your weights. The sum of the two axle weights you got is what your truck actually weighs. Add that number to the 7600 pounds of your trailer. Is that sum less than the GCVWR for your truck? If so, you are probably okay. If not, either get a lighter trailer or a bigger truck.

Others may have different opinions.
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Old 02-13-2017, 10:32 AM   #4
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You'll exceed payload, but you should be able to keep it within axle weight ratings, maybe.

You need to go get weighted. On my Ram 1500 for awhile I was over payload by 170lbs but well within the GAWR and tire ratings.

If memory serves me right, each axle on the 1500 is rated at 3400lbs.

If push comes to shove, you might just want the bigger truck. If you're going to be a full-timer. If not, live with the hassle of playing the balance game.

I've lived and towed with both the Ram 1500 Laramie and now a 2500 Laramie.
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Old 02-13-2017, 11:03 AM   #5
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You'll exceed payload, but you should be able to keep it within axle weight ratings, maybe.

You need to go get weighted. On my Ram 1500 for awhile I was over payload by 170lbs but well within the GAWR and tire ratings.

If memory serves me right, each axle on the 1500 is rated at 3400lbs.

If push comes to shove, you might just want the bigger truck. If you're going to be a full-timer. If not, live with the hassle of playing the balance game.

I've lived and towed with both the Ram 1500 Laramie and now a 2500 Laramie.
Truck is rated for 9200lbs has 3900lb front and rear axel ratings. It's only the payload that is insufficient.

Billy
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Old 02-13-2017, 11:04 AM   #6
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DrennanB-

Welcome to the obsession! Seriously nice coach you have on the way there, we have a '14 27fb twin, the same floorplan as you sans the rear hatch. It is a great floorplan, we absolutely love ours and wouldn't change unless they gave us one.........

I can't believe I'm jumping into the 15th tow vehicle thread I've seen this week. This is gonna get wordy so forgive me..........

We had 3 different bumper pull trailers back in the day, and then went to a 39 1/2' diesel pusher for about 5 years. Enjoyed and used them all, but every one of them led to another vehicle trade. Seriously. The 1st little 24' lightweight led to a 30' heavyweight which led to a 32' two-slide superweight (from a light 1/2 ton to a gas 3/4, and then a diesel 3/4); and then the motorhome required a toad car, and we had to buy one that would flat tow...........Sigh.........

It's like I saw on facebook the other day, "camping is where you spend a small fortune to live like a homeless person." That's kinda right on. This is a hobby, and whether you are an occasional-timer, a half-timer, a lotta-timer, or a full-timer, RVing is expensive. You're gonna want more truck in my opinion. You don't need a bone-jarring 1 ton, but you need more than what you have, as that payload is pretty light. Heck our Lincoln MKX has nearly that, and it doesn't even have a tow rating.

Don't believe the printed tongue weight in the Airstream specs, ours is always 1100+ lbs, and we travel and pack light. We have a '15 F150 pretty much built for towing, with a 1907 lb payload, and we use and enjoy every pound. You can play the weight game some, move some% of that tongue weight to the truck and trailer axles with a WD hitch, etc, etc., but in my opinion you're not gonna be OK with a sub-1000lb payload truck. Period.

I'm firmly planted in the 1/2 ton pickup crowd, and in fact we bought an Airstream specifically for it's sub-8000 lb weight, construction, towing manners, livability, and lack of slides. A properly spec'd 1/2 ton with 1700-1800 lbs of payload, and a very good WD/SC hitch properly configured will make you not only safer, and less worried about eating at the buffet and then getting in your rig (you'll be that close), but you might even enjoy towing your new coach. How many 35' bumper pull 3 slides with outdoor kitchen and bunkroom owners you'll meet at the campground will say that? That they enjoyed getting there?

It's easy for us to spend others money on here, we do it well. But some of the best advice I've ever seen on AF goes something like "don't buy less coach than you want/need to fit a tow vehicle that you own". So don't. Get the Airstream you want, and trade for a more capable truck/suv/tow vehicle. You don't have to buy a new one, you just need some more capability. Lots of threads for you to study on this decision.

I Hope this helps.
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Old 02-13-2017, 11:21 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Drennanb View Post
Truck is rated for 9200lbs has 3900lb front and rear axel ratings. It's only the payload that is insufficient.

Billy

Payload is determined by subtracting the GVWR from what it currently weights.

The thing is though, look at your vehicle GVWR (6800lbs), it's not going to add up to the 7800lbs that the two axles are rated at. There is about 1000lbs built in safety.

So follow along. Being over payload a bit is ok. You DO NOT want to overload your axle or tires. That's where you get into trouble.
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Old 02-13-2017, 11:53 AM   #8
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Actually it's not the payload/GVWR that matters when towing with a properly set up weight distribution hitch, its the axle ratings (GAWR) and combined vehicle and trailer weight rating (GCWR). The manufacturers' charts ignore weight distribution hitches entirely, it will be up to you to get it set up and adjusted properly, as well as any other towing equipment.

The manufactures' charts tell you what you vehicle can haul and/or tow without a weight distribution hitch. They most probably advise you to use a w.d. hitch with a large trailer, but they do not chart it. They also do not post a more appropriate payload number on the door for a weight distribution hitch set up properly. Too many variables and so few people who actually know what they are doing.

Unfortunately the payload/GVWR is applied to people even with a good w.d. hitch setup and absolutely safe and comfortable towing combination, and others will advise them they can't be over payload/GVWR because of manufacturers' charts. The answer to that advice is, "please educate yourself, we like the performance of our tow vehicle".

Here's how it will probably work out based on our towing with Ram 1500's in every Western and Midwest state, all of the South and much of the Northeast, many times in six years. Your fully loaded Airstream will have about 1000 lbs hitch weight, and a properly set up weight distribution hitch will distribute 200 lbs to the trailer axles, and 800 lbs added to the truck's axles, rated at 3900 lbs each. You can adjust the w.d. hitch so there is up to 3900 lbs on each axle (we don't, leave some breathing room) so the axles can carry 7800 lbs. Minus 800 lbs for the trailer and hitch, minus 6200 lbs for the loaded, fueled and two people in truck , and you have 800 left. That's a lot more than we can ever use for gear so we have lots of breathing room.

The combined loaded truck and trailer rating (GCWR) for our Ram truck with 3.92 axle ratio is 14,750 lbs and we run heavily loaded at about 13,200 lbs. Check your Ram GCWR on the Ram towing site.

The Hemi or EcoDiesel engines handle this size Airstream easily with the 8-speed transmission. The 3.92 axle ratio puts plenty of power on the wheels but the 3.55 axle is fine, a little more downshifting in the mountains. The coil (or air) suspension is gentle on us and our Airstream and has a little better lateral stability than leaf springs.

For this to work you absolutely must get a good, capable weight distribution hitch and set it up right. It's the difference between safe, comfortable towing or not. Then verify axle weights after fully loaded at the CAT truck scale to ensure GAWR and GCWR are not exceeded and leave some wiggle room. We use a ProPride 1400 w.d. hitch after experimenting with others, there is no comparison. Find the money for this, work it into your Airstream cost, whatever but it's the best, most effective towing money you will spend for your Ram.

Read this article about w.d.hitches by Airstream Dealership owner and hitching expert Andrew Thomson.

http://www.canamrv.ca/blog/post/hitc...izing-hitches/

Get your Ram set up right, tow with it and get to know it, get your advice from people who have experience with this setup and know what they are doing, and you will be fine.
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Old 02-13-2017, 12:10 PM   #9
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If you are Not fulltiming but using your trailer for weekends and vacations consider getting a beat up 3/4 or 1 ton truck. It will sit in the driveway most of the time, but it won't depreciate much,
And once the Airstream is paid for, you can shop for a newer one. Probably won't cost much more than a Hensley or Propride either.

Happy Trails, Paula
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Old 02-15-2017, 01:47 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
Actually it's not the payload/GVWR that matters when towing with a properly set up weight distribution hitch, its the axle ratings (GAWR) and combined vehicle and trailer weight rating (GCWR). The manufacturers' charts ignore weight distribution hitches entirely, it will be up to you to get it set up and adjusted properly, as well as any other towing equipment.

The manufactures' charts tell you what you vehicle can haul and/or tow without a weight distribution hitch. They most probably advise you to use a w.d. hitch with a large trailer, but they do not chart it. They also do not post a more appropriate payload number on the door for a weight distribution hitch set up properly. Too many variables and so few people who actually know what they are doing.

Unfortunately the payload/GVWR is applied to people even with a good w.d. hitch setup and absolutely safe and comfortable towing combination, and others will advise them they can't be over payload/GVWR because of manufacturers' charts. The answer to that advice is, "please educate yourself, we like the performance of our tow vehicle".

Here's how it will probably work out based on our towing with Ram 1500's in every Western and Midwest state, all of the South and much of the Northeast, many times in six years. Your fully loaded Airstream will have about 1000 lbs hitch weight, and a properly set up weight distribution hitch will distribute 200 lbs to the trailer axles, and 800 lbs added to the truck's axles, rated at 3900 lbs each. You can adjust the w.d. hitch so there is up to 3900 lbs on each axle (we don't, leave some breathing room) so the axles can carry 7800 lbs. Minus 800 lbs for the trailer and hitch, minus 6200 lbs for the loaded, fueled and two people in truck , and you have 800 left. That's a lot more than we can ever use for gear so we have lots of breathing room.

The combined loaded truck and trailer rating (GCWR) for our Ram truck with 3.92 axle ratio is 14,750 lbs and we run heavily loaded at about 13,200 lbs. Check your Ram GCWR on the Ram towing site.

The Hemi or EcoDiesel engines handle this size Airstream easily with the 8-speed transmission. The 3.92 axle ratio puts plenty of power on the wheels but the 3.55 axle is fine, a little more downshifting in the mountains. The coil (or air) suspension is gentle on us and our Airstream and has a little better lateral stability than leaf springs.

For this to work you absolutely must get a good, capable weight distribution hitch and set it up right. It's the difference between safe, comfortable towing or not. Then verify axle weights after fully loaded at the CAT truck scale to ensure GAWR and GCWR are not exceeded and leave some wiggle room. We use a ProPride 1400 w.d. hitch after experimenting with others, there is no comparison. Find the money for this, work it into your Airstream cost, whatever but it's the best, most effective towing money you will spend for your Ram.

Read this article about w.d.hitches by Airstream Dealership owner and hitching expert Andrew Thomson.

http://www.canamrv.ca/blog/post/hitc...izing-hitches/

Get your Ram set up right, tow with it and get to know it, get your advice from people who have experience with this setup and know what they are doing, and you will be fine.
Got the truck weighed and here are the numbers

Actual loaded weight 6510
Front Axle - 3605
Rear Axel - 2905
GCVWR - 15640
GVWR - 6900
Front and Rear Axel Rating - 3900

If I understand WDH correctly, some of the trailers hitch weight is transferred to front Axel, looks like I could be I. Danger of exceeding rating.

Based on your RAM 1500 towing experience, is that combo doable?

Billy
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Old 02-15-2017, 04:19 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Drennanb View Post
Got the truck weighed and here are the numbers

Actual loaded weight 6510
Front Axle - 3605
Rear Axel - 2905
GCVWR - 15640
GVWR - 6900
Front and Rear Axel Rating - 3900

If I understand WDH correctly, some of the trailers hitch weight is transferred to front Axel, looks like I could be I. Danger of exceeding rating.
Sounds to me like you've already made up your mind.

And don't forget your trailer weights were without a full refrigerator and pantry, closets, water, etc.
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Old 02-15-2017, 05:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drennanb View Post
Got the truck weighed and here are the numbers

Actual loaded weight 6510
Front Axle - 3605
Rear Axel - 2905
GCVWR - 15640
GVWR - 6900
Front and Rear Axel Rating - 3900

If I understand WDH correctly, some of the trailers hitch weight is transferred to front Axel, looks like I could be I. Danger of exceeding rating.

Based on your RAM 1500 towing experience, is that combo doable?

Billy
As i described earlier your Ram 1500, like ours, can be easily be set up to tow easily, safely, and comfortably.

We're headed out the door right now for dinner with visiting family but when we get back we can work with those numbers.
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Old 02-15-2017, 05:39 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Drennanb View Post
Got the truck weighed and here are the numbers

Actual loaded weight 6510
Front Axle - 3605
Rear Axel - 2905
GCVWR - 15640
GVWR - 6900
Front and Rear Axel Rating - 3900

If I understand WDH correctly, some of the trailers hitch weight is transferred to front Axel, looks like I could be I. Danger of exceeding rating.

Based on your RAM 1500 towing experience, is that combo doable?

Billy
Couple of questions. First, you said above that the print off from Ram showed 1180 payload. Are you referring to the serial number specific printout that came with your truck, or the generic brochure? If it is serial number specific, that figure is correct over the door jamb label figure, which is an estimate according to Ram. If you are referring to a figure from a generic brochure, then go with the door label, unless you have the document from when the truck was built and delivered.

Second question, how much cargo was included in that scale reading? Was the truck empty, or just driver and passenger, or also including any cargo? 400 lbs left to go isn't a lot to work with. In any case, you will likely be able to stay within axle ratings, not necessarily GVWR.
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Old 02-15-2017, 06:22 PM   #14
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Couple of questions. First, you said above that the print off from Ram showed 1180 payload. Are you referring to the serial number specific printout that came with your truck, or the generic brochure? If it is serial number specific, that figure is correct over the door jamb label figure, which is an estimate according to Ram. If you are referring to a figure from a generic brochure, then go with the door label, unless you have the document from when the truck was built and delivered.

Second question, how much cargo was included in that scale reading? Was the truck empty, or just driver and passenger, or also including any cargo? 400 lbs left to go isn't a lot to work with. In any case, you will likely be able to stay within axle ratings, not necessarily GVWR.
Payload numbers were from not truck specific, so 907 on door is what I have to go by.

Weights were with truck loaded as it would be for travel.

Billy
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Old 02-15-2017, 06:57 PM   #15
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First of all, GREAT CHOICE on a trailer. Very nice. I just looked at one at an RV show a few weeks ago. The inside cabinets, counter and overall decor I found to be a nice look. You will enjoy it.

You are over payload. The hitch will not correct that and neither do the axles. Looking at one separate system's ability is not the "truck's" payload rating. You never know what you may work out on a truck. I wouldn't worry about the truck. Perhaps you will not be set to take off on a distant trip right away? My WD hitches do not provide equal or proportionate weight. When I adjust I may find that after a certain point, no matter what I do, the weight falls to one location.
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Old 02-15-2017, 07:27 PM   #16
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In your first post you mentioned 7600gvwr. If that is the case you should be ok as you don't have much weight on the rear. Don't forget wo wd your front end will get lighter, so when you hook up your wd you'll try to get back to your original unloaded weight in front. Optimum setup would be 1/3 total weight on front, rear, and trailer. Take for instance my 05 Sierra. GVWR is 7200. After scaling I'm at 3100, 3500, 6600 on trailer. This is with a 30' Bunk camp ready for a family of 3. One thing to remember with the 1/2 tons is you don't have a lot of room for a bunch of extras.
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Old 02-15-2017, 09:56 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drennanb View Post
Got the truck weighed and here are the numbers

Actual loaded weight 6510
Front Axle - 3605
Rear Axel - 2905
GCVWR - 15640
GVWR - 6900
Front and Rear Axel Rating - 3900

If I understand WDH correctly, some of the trailers hitch weight is transferred to front Axel, looks like I could be I. Danger of exceeding rating.

Based on your RAM 1500 towing experience, is that combo doable?

Billy
Here's how we are setting our Ram 1500's up, Hemi and now EcoDiesel, the past five years, traveled in every Western, Midwest, Southeast and most of the Northeast. Eleven cross-country trips.

Get a ProPride hitch (with no less than 1400 lb w.d. bars or it won't be able to transfer enough weight, at some point it will quit) and set it up properly, the trailer will tow straight behind the truck and never affect the truck's steering axle, absolutely safe and comfortable towing. Two fingers on the steering wheel comfort. And you can adjust the weights distributed to each axle and front wheel by turning the screwjacks that support the weight distribution bars on each side. Expensive compared to common hitches but worth every penney.

Your loaded-for-travel trailer hitch weight at the forward side of the ProPride stinger in the hitch head will be about 1,000 lbs, which is the weight your Airstream Owners Manual tells you to never exceed. (That's what ours weighs and we have added tow size over AGM batteries in the battery box and the ProPride hitch.) If it's higher, move something around inside, light stuff at the ends, heavy stuff in the middle.

After hitching up and setting the weight distribution bars you will have added 800 lbs to the truck axles and 200 lbs to the trailer axles. Adjust the w.d. bars so the weight on each 3900 front and 3900 rear truck axle are about the same weight. Your front axle will weigh 3655 lbs and the rear axle 3655 lbs (roughly speaking but that's the idea).

You have 3900 lb axles front and rear, total capacity of 7800 lbs. Your loaded truck weighs 6510 lbs plus 800 lbs trailer hitch weight, 7310. Plenty of spare axle capacity. You combined weight is way under GCWR so your truck is designed to tow and stop it easily.

If the forum wants to needlessly harass you about payload/GVWR (and they will, if worry about it), you can lighten the load carried in the front of the trailer and carry less stuff so the hitch weight is 10% of the total loaded trailer weight (which is within Airstream recommendation). This will lighten the load on your truck's hitch receiver and lighten the load in your truck. Payload/GVWR means little to nothing if you have a good weight distribution hitch set up right and weighed to verify. That doesn't mean you need to weigh before each trip, if you load about the same the hitch weight will be pretty constant (our entire Airstream varies about 100 lbs one year to the next).

The point is,
this is far better than most half-tons and many larger trucks are loaded and set up for towing. Or ever have been. Give your truck a chance, it will surprise your how good and capable it is. We love our Ram 1500 and Airstream combo and we load the trailer to the gills and plenty in the truck (keep the heavy stuff forward, light stuff in back for easier weight distribution).
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Old 02-16-2017, 05:41 AM   #18
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You have already splurged on beautiful new $100K airstream – just keep it going and get yourself a new truck to go with it. In for a penny, in for a pound; life’s too short to drive yourself crazy; you can’t take it with you; tomorrow’s promised to no one; you have worked hard - you deserve it; etc., etc. etc.
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Old 02-16-2017, 06:17 AM   #19
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I had a half ton GMC pulling basically the same trailer you have (Eddie Bauer 27). First let me say, its not that a half ton isn't a good combination for your 27 Tommy Bahama. But I would say that your particular half ton is not ideal. The tongue weight won't be 920. It will be over 1000. Trust me on this one. The payload is what it is and once you hook up your trailer, you won't be able to put a snickers bar in your truck bed without exceeding payload. I stressfully towed with this combination for a year until I just decided, for peace of mind, to get a GMC Denali HD. Now, I don't even think twice about what I want to bring and what I put in the bed of the truck while towing. I know you just dropped a large chunk of change on the Tommy Bahama but that is a not a trailer I would experiment with a poorly equipped truck for very long.
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Old 02-16-2017, 12:46 PM   #20
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In determining the capability, safety and peace of mind of the original poster's 2014 Ram 1500 a capable and proper weight distribution must be used. It is also important to have a better understanding of SAE towing standards and realize they are not perfect, and especially not universal.

Towing expert Andrew Thomson of Can-Am Airstream discussed both of these issues in an earlier thread on this forum. Proper hitch setup and information will get you on the right path with your Ram/Airstream, and the knowledge to be comfortable with it. This is a good start:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew T View Post
Hi Collyn

Below is a column I wrote about the SAE weight transfer recommendation. Certainly there may be something here that I don't understand but try as I might I cannot get the SAE recommendation to be stable.

If I can help feel free to call sometime and if you get to NA sometime feel free to come for a visit and we can do some test drives.

Andrew T

SAE J2807 Tow Rating Standard.
Setting The Torsion Bars:

In previous articles we discussed how to set your torsion bars properly. If you need a refresher here is a quick summary.


1) To set the torsion bars you need a level cement pad. To start, you want the trailer and tow vehicle in a straight line, disconnected, with the coupler ready to drop on the ball.

2) With the tow vehicle in position but disconnected use some masking tape and mark a height on all four corners of the tow vehicle’s bumpers, for example 22 inches, or whatever is appropriate for your tow vehicle.

3) Now that we know how the tow vehicle sits without the trailer, we want to determine the change in position when we connect. Generally the goal is to have the tow vehicle pushed straight down, so the front is pushed down the same amount as the rear.

4) Connect the trailer, do up the torsion bars and measure the change on the masking tape.

5) You will find that the tow vehicle will have been pushed down by the weight of the trailer. For example, the rear measurement may now be 20” instead of 22” but the front may have come up to 22.5”. In this case, you need to go up to the next link (adding tension to the torsion bars) and measure again.

6) However, you may find that the next link puts you into the opposite position where the front is pushed down 1” and the back stays even at the 22” mark. This means that the torsion bars are transferring too much weight forward.

7) If this is the case then you need a partial link. To do that, overlap two chain links and slide a ½” bolt through them. A ½” bolt is 1/3 of a link of adjustment so in some cases you will need 2 bolts to achieve the correct transfer.

8) Most tow vehicles will end between 21 ¼” & 21 ½” front and rear if you started with marks at 22”.

9) If you are setting up a new hitch the bars will wear in quite quickly. You’ll likely need to add a third of a link in 2-500 miles. You will need another third after another 500-1000 miles. You’ll probablyy feel the difference in the steering as this happens. After a while it just won’t feel as planted as it was after your initial set up. It’s fine to experiment 1/3 of a link at a time you should notice the difference in steering feel right away if it was the right or wrong change to make.

10) If you can’t get the weight to transfer to the front wheels without your torsion bars meeting the trailer frame then you don’t have enough reward angle on your ball mount, torsion bars too light, a hitch receiver that is too weak, or all of the above.

This is how we have configured hitches for the past 45 years. Because of these articles and internet searches, people with towing stability problems regularly seek us out. This is how we wind up helping them most of the time. A couple of hundred times every year we reconfigure a problem hitch that was installed elsewhere to these new settings. The difference is usually quite dramatic and customers are quite pleased. Now they don’t have to sell their trailer or buy a bigger truck.

The SAE has been working on a tow rating standard that they can use to better determine a vehicle’s tow rating. The standard will be better than nothing but it will still have many issues, the main one being that it is dependent on weight alone. The issue that concerns me most though is that they have come out with a recommendation on how to adjust torsion bars that in my experience is quite flawed.

What most vehicle manufacturers’ use for tow testing are enclosed cargo trailers with test weights inside. This gives the cargo trailers a low center of gravity, and most of them use torsion axle suspensions. Connect a tall RV trailer with a slide-out, leaf springs and no shocks and those handling tests are no longer meaningful. In a cross wind a tall RV trailer will behave much worse, however they did no testing on cross wind effects and really how could they? However most loss-of-control trailer accidents are the result of sudden wind changes.
The next barrier to effective testing is another SAE standard that we discussed in previous issues. Many of the vehicles being tested have hitch receivers that are too weak to transfer weight properly. If you cannot set up the hitch optimally how can you perform a good handling test? And most of the testing appears to be done with little or no rearward angle on the ball mount so the weight transfer on the tow vehicles is wrong. Without angle on the ball mount when turning, weight is taken off the front wheels and inside rear wheel and all dumped on the outside rear wheel. Last but not least the testing was done with the ball positioned well behind the bumper, and no effort was made to reduce overhang. The bottom line is that they never tested a truly dialed-in hitch system.
The next concern with J2807 is the handling tests themselves. I’m not certain how useful they are. One involves a test where traveling at highway speed, the steering wheel is snapped 180 degrees and immediately snapped back to the straight ahead position. The problem with this test is no correction for steering gear ratio or wheelbase. We talked about this in the article on steering. In a vehicle with a short wheelbase and a quick steering ratio this is a very violent maneuver, whereas in a long wheelbase vehicle with a slow steering gear it’s relatively relaxed.
J2807 is not the only time this method has been used. A few years ago Transport Canada set out to test the handling safety of 15 passenger vans. In this maneuver they used a steering robot to snap the steering wheel. This procedure removes the human equation but again they did not correct for steering ratio or wheelbase. The robot would seem like the ideal way to test; but is it? When in an emergency situation, as important as your steering input is the steering’s communication back to you. You can feel if the front tires are starting to plow or the back end is coming around. Take the human equation out of testing if you want, but in the real world people do the driving. A better test might be to flag down the first 20 everyday drivers and see how they perform.
The second SAE handling test is a steady state circle around the skid pad. As the G force increases the tow vehicle will start to go outside the circle, either the back end will break loose (oversteer) or the front tires will plow (understeer). Car companies like understeer. Now my own testing of this is on a delightful exit ramp with a downhill decreasing radius turn. What I find with my combinations is that the front end will almost always start to plow first but if you overcorrect which is the tendency then the back end will come around. If you just let it drift a little it pretty smoothly continues around the ramp drifting a slight bit off line. In the SAE test they kept breaking the back end loose. Which is to be expected since their hitch set up was unloading the inside rear tire and overloading the outside rear.
This combination of events led them to recommend a strange way of adjusting a weight distribution hitch. Instead of setting the hitch to push the tow vehicle down the same amount front and rear they use another method. Measure the height of the front of the tow vehicle. Drop the trailer on the ball without torsion bars. Measure again. Let’s say the front raises 2” then they want you to set the torsion bars so the front raises 50% from its solo position or in this case 1” higher than its solo position. This results in a considerable unloading of the steering axle. If you set your combination up this way it will be quite unstable at highway speeds especially when there is truck turbulence or cross winds.
In theory it would have a little more traction decelerating into low speed sharp turns. I have never seen an accident that was at all serious on a low speed sharp turn but there have been plenty due to loss of control at highway speed. After the SAE came out with this I thought possibly we’ve been wrong for 40 years. I tried setting up some combinations with their method and none of them were what I would consider stable at highway speeds. In fact most of the 200 trailers a year that we fix for people come in close to the SAE spec, usually due to a combination of weak receivers and improperly set ball mounts.
Before writing this column I wanted some more track testing just to check again that there was not something I was missing. I felt I should use a pick up as that is what the SAE used mostly in their testing. We used a ½ ton GM truck with a 34’ Airstream for testing. We tested it to the industry spec where the truck is pushed down evenly and to the suggested SAE spec. Two differences from the SAE testing were that our ball was close to the bumper as possible and we strengthened the stock hitch receiver. In their test the back axle lost traction with the industry specification. In the 100’ slalom we achieved 81 KPH with the hitch set to our spec, 81 KPH is really moving in the slalom. At the 6th cone the Airstream drifts sideways on all six tires which is no easy feat. In theory if the back tires were to break loose on the truck this is where it should happen when the trailer is sliding sideways but the truck stayed planted and slid very little if at all. When we tried the same speed with the SAE spec we made it to the second cone and had to give up the run due to lack of control. On the track there is a nice declining radius turn where we expected the SAE spec truck to do better but there was no speed difference to speak of, on both settings the front tires started to plow before the back wheels broke loose. Next we tried a steady state turn that took us down and then up a lip of asphalt as well as over several bumps with less sticky pavement. The SAE setting bounced more and felt less planted but again we could not measure any appreciable difference in speed. I think though most drivers would find it much easier with the industry spec.
If I were you at this moment I would be saying “who is this RV dealer schmuck who thinks he knows more than the Society of Automotive Engineers?” That’s a valid question. I have some advantages that the SAE does not have. I’m sure I’ve driven more combinations of trailers and tow vehicles with more hitch systems, tire changes etc. etc. than anyone you’ll ever meet. I don’t just wander down the road them either. I do quick lane changes, panic stops, and all manner of emergency maneuvers. I am also close to the real world customer. If a customer says they are having an issue, I’ll say let’s go for a ride and you can show me. We then get a good feel for what is really happening out there. We take most of our own vacations with trailers, so I always have something to experiment with. Additionally, we’ll have 7 to 10 different tow vehicles of our own that we use for pickups and deliveries. I can focus on RV trailers, while the SAE must worry about cargo, boat and horse trailers as well. The test track is a great tool and we spend a lot of time there but nothing is quite like real world testing, and that we have in spades. We have the opportunity to pay a lot of attention to something that no one else wants to be bothered with.
The other parts of SAEJ2807 are acceleration and cooling system tests. The combination at its rated weight needs to be able to accelerate from 0-60 in 30 seconds, unless it is a dual wheel truck, and then it can take 35. The cooling system test is done on a 10-mile long 6% grade in Arizona in 100+ degree heat at a minimum speed of 40 MPH, unless it is a dually. Then 35 MPH is magically ok.
One thing I asked for in the SAE standard was publication of the individual test results. This would allow people to find a vehicle that suits their individual needs better. For example, a Ford Edge crossover SUV may not have the acceleration of V8 F-150 with a V8, and it also might not do as well on the cooling system test but it would almost certainly be better in a handling test and be comparable stopping. If you are concerned about fuel economy and safety but not in a big hurry, and willing to back off a little in extreme heat, the Edge performs very well without compromising safety. For many it suits their lifestyle better. As it is, you only know the rating is lower but you don’t know why. Even then they would have to test the Edge to find its limits but since they only plan to rate it for 3500 they test to that and leave it there. Coincidently the Explorer which is built on a similar platform with the same drivetrain is rated to tow 5000 pounds but it is not nearly as good a tow vehicle. It sits higher, has a softer suspension, and a longer overhang on almost the same wheelbase.

I have the greatest respect for the SAE. What the auto industry has accomplished is nothing short of amazing, and the technologies reach far beyond the car industry. I think in this case the SAE has tried to take on something that should not be their job. Then whose job is it? I believe it should be the RV dealer. The dealer is the only one who sees the trailer, vehicle and hitch system and who also meets the driver and understands how he’s going to use the combination. But since many RV dealers are afraid to get involved over fear of lawsuits etc. the towing equation tends to be neglected. In fairness, if we didn’t have a 45-year track record I doubt we would do what we do either. The good news is you don’t have to take my word for any of this. It’s easy to experiment with your own combination. Set it up to both specs and try it each way and you can decide for yourself if the industry spec of the last 50 years is right or the SAE spec.
In the end, getting the right combination and making sure it is configured properly is often up to you. That’s why you need to look beyond tow ratings and solely weight, and focus on the core principles behind the design of the tow vehicle and the trailer. And of course never compromise your hitch set up!
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles

The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
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