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Old 02-25-2008, 10:26 AM   #15
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2008 F250

I have now had my truck almost a year and on our trip this past fall I swear the Flying J's pumps that said ULSD really didn't have that in 'em.

What I noticed performance wise was when dropping down to 4th gear from 5th and accelerating to go up some short inclines the engine would shudder like it was "flooding out".

The problem went away when I quit buying fuel at the Flying J's.

For us '08 Ford truck owners, the recommended fuel filter service interval is 10k for towing. 20k for normal use. So 15k could work for those that tow part of the time I guess.

I changed mine (there's two fuel filters) at 10k. Plus I change the oil every 5k.
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Old 02-25-2008, 11:17 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate
In the event that a pump were mislabeled or you pumped some lsd instead of usld by accident...in other words if I had read the label after I had pumped the lsd instead of before, would having the fuel filters changed on a regular basis compensate for an occasional grievance?
Bad fuel is always bad fuel. ULSD doesn't change this. In your newer 08, your truck has what is called a DPF or diesel particulate filter. It collects soot and other bad byproducts from the exhaust in a grid and will 'burn' them off using a regeneration cycle. Using LSD instead of the ULSD risks clogging the DPF to a point that it can't even unclog itself using a regen, or it will be in regen much longer, leading to excessive smoking, excessive heat that can damage turbos, and most certainly poor fuel economy while running in regen.
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Old 02-26-2008, 08:18 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpandorf

For us '08 Ford truck owners, the recommended fuel filter service interval is 10k for towing. 20k for normal use. So 15k could work for those that tow part of the time I guess.

I changed mine (there's two fuel filters) at 10k. Plus I change the oil every 5k.
I just got my '08 in December so I haven't had it quiet long enough to come up on its first oil change, but it won't be long before I have it changed. With my '05, I changed the oil about every 7K miles and had the oil filters changed every time. I had the fuel filters changed every third time and if I had towed a lot I would have them changed every second time. My service manager always told me that I didn't need to have them changed at the second interval, but I would anyway during the summer when we were towing a lot. When our trips were short (very seldom and usually in the fall and early spring) I would do the every third. My daily commute is about 50 miles round trip and that is all I use my truck for besides towing so I kind of go through a lot of miles quickly so the oil doesn't stay in too long even at 7K-7,500 miles. Right now I'm a little shy of 5,500 miles on my '08 but being the factory oil and I have towed about 2,100 miles already, I'll probably have the oil and filters changed in the next couple of weeks...as soon as life slows down a little.

Westfalia, as I understand what you are describing, the part that is clogged by the sulfur is in the exhaust system and not the fuel system so changing the fuel filters at the prescribed interval isn't going to make a difference. Is this correct? Also, in the new engines, do you ever change the DPF or is it like a catalytic converter and made for the life of the vehicle?
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Old 02-26-2008, 09:26 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate
Westfalia, as I understand what you are describing, the part that is clogged by the sulfur is in the exhaust system and not the fuel system so changing the fuel filters at the prescribed interval isn't going to make a difference. Is this correct? Also, in the new engines, do you ever change the DPF or is it like a catalytic converter and made for the life of the vehicle?
It's not a replaceable or maintenance item like a fuel filter, but I believe that much like a catalytic converter it will eventually clog or otherwise fail and require replacement. I have yet to check and see what a replacement costs. Also much like a catalytic converter, eventually becomes soon if contamination occurs from over fueling (bad O2 sensor on a gasser), or in this case additional sulfur particulate contamination for a diesel.

So feed the best ULSD into these newer diesel beasts that you can.

And FYI, here is a great Wiki article on DPFs that is worth a read.
Diesel particulate filter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 02-27-2008, 12:36 AM   #19
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The USEPA diesel emission regulations for 2008 model year vehicles and vehicles manufactured or delivered(not sure which) after May 1st 2007 require the use of new exhaust aftertreatment devices. All the light-duty and medium-duty and heavy-duty diesel engines use a DOC(diesel oxidation cataylsis) and a DPF(diesel particulate filter) The truck manufacture labels the vehicle requiring the use of ULSD. Sulfur will damage the DOC as did lead to the gasoline catalytic converter. Also low ash engine oil MUST BE used, API service classification of CJ4. The DPF must last at least 100,000 miles before cleaning or possible replacement, EPA requirement. Many manufatures state that theirs will run 200,000 before cleaning if the engine is properly service and maintained. The DOC burns the PM and turn it to ash and DPF collects the ash until cleaning. The DOC can if hot enough, burn the PM. If the truck, because of light load operation cannot heat the DOC to the correct temperature the engine will introduce extra fuel to the DOC during a cycle called regeration, different methods are used by the manufactures. The extra fuel burns and heats the DOC so it can turn/burn the PM to ash which is collected in the DPF. Some vehicles have to be parked during regen, and the exhaust will get very hot.
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Old 02-27-2008, 01:37 AM   #20
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thanks tb...

excellent post!

cheers
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Old 02-27-2008, 09:43 AM   #21
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Thanks for the link Westfalia. It never ceases to amaze me the breadth of information can be found on Wikipedia, yet I never think to look there for info on any given topic.

Thanks also TBSafari28 for the additional information. Between the two post and the info at Wikipedia, I have a much better understanding of the DPF and what happens with sulfur in the exhaust.

My '05, and now my '08, constitute my first experience with diesels so I am kind of skittish about anything that might damage them. With the high cost of repairs I would rather spend a little more on the maintenance and go a little out of the way, and even pay a little more, for fuel than to risk damaging any component part of the system. I was told by my regular service provider that one of the reasons that my '08 uses more fuel than my '05 did was the ULSD. After reading the article I understand that it isn't necessarily the fuel, but the regenerative DPF system that may be part of the culprit in that issue.
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Old 02-27-2008, 10:36 AM   #22
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I just sold my 2000 F250 PSD and have a 2008 F450 on order.

One of the managers at our local Ford dealership, who is a truck specialist, told me he recommends adding a good quality additive to every fill-up in these new diesel trucks.

I've seen the results of an independent study on these additives effect on diesel fuel lubricity conducted last summer that was funded by advertisers and others on The Diesel Place.

The study results showed that 2% REG SoyPower Biodiesel was the top additive as far as increasing lubricity (I donlt even know where to buy that), followed by Opti-Lube XPD, FPPF, Opti-Lube Summer Blend and Opti-Lube Winter Blend, (in that order) and then others.

Some of these additives improve cetane, contain anti-gel agents, are bio-diesel compatible, etc., plus have a rather wide range of costs. Some of the older additives on the market are not even ULSD compliant and may damage newer diesels.

I'm no expert by any means on this subject. However, I'd like to add an additive if there's going to be some positive impacts in doing so. Is there any single additive that is the BEST one?

Also, how important is it to put the correct amount of additive in your tank when you fill-up? I don't know if these proportions are anywhere near to being correct, but if they say to add 4 oz of additive to 10 gal of diesel for example, can you guess what is 4 oz and maybe get in 3 or 6 oz instead, or do you have to be more exact? (I often just eyeball the amount and pour some in to my tank).

John
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Old 02-27-2008, 11:21 AM   #23
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hi 'fisher...

f-450, oh man i love it!

started looking into a srw version of that model myself.

imo the stanadyne (performance formula) link provided in post #13 is the best overall additive.

they do after all, make diesel fuel injectors.

it did/does improve mpg slightly. i did the measurements (with/without, towing/not towing) and as long as fuel is priced above 2.80 or so...

the additive cost is offset by the small mpg increase.

it also addresses ALL of the other diesel fuel issues.

i've read the 'report' too and until it's repeated, remember that op-teee-lube is the primary sponsor.

i've found 20% and 100% soybiod locally, (lots of web sites for finding this stuff) and add just enough for a 1% bio formula...

haven't done careful with/without comparisons on the bio-d, like i did with stanadyne...

the take home message on bio-d is, very small amounts and frequent fuel filter changes....

let us know MORE about that 450, over in the 2008 superduty thread!

cheers
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Old 02-27-2008, 02:49 PM   #24
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I see that the Stanadyne Performance Formula does just about everything except make your monthly finance payments on the truck, and since its non-alcoholic I guess you can't even drink it in a pinch! But, it's pretty costly. Know a good place to get it by the gallon or so at a better than avg. price?

Looks like their Lubricity Formula additive is a fraction of the Performance Formula's price and does practically everything except have the cetane booster.

John
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Old 02-27-2008, 03:35 PM   #25
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'fisher...

my understanding is that boosting the cetane rating a little improves go power and mpg some.

that may be part of the value in bio-d which generally has a higher cetane rating, but lower energy content...

use the 'dealer locator feature.

i purchase the 1/2 gallon jugs from a local independent diesel repair/service shop, i found with the locator function.

performance JUNIOR is the 'value' priced product...

the fellow who runs the yahoo powerstroke group does sell this snake oil on line, from his web page (which is EXCELLENT 4 powerstroke info)

scroll down to the turquoise box (store) midway down the page...

dieselmann's Page

but shipping would be cross country 4 u....

my local price is 22-24$ per 1/2 gallon

one point of user feedback...

this stuff has a REALLY strong odor. don't carry it in the cab and wear gloves when pouring.

and we want PIX of the new 450!

cheers
2air'
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