Looking to Upgrade TV After First Pull of 28' FC with Tahoe

[switz]

All four TV tires need to be at the same pressure with an load equalizer hitch. Set up properly, in theory the hitch distributes the tongue weight equally (1/3 to each) to the three axle sets: trailer axle(s), rear TV axle and front TV axle.

So in my case, the tongue weight is 1,150 pounds. In theory, I am transferring 375 pounds to the TV front axle and 350 pounds to the TV rear axle. Thus the need to know the axle ratings of the TV from the door plate and after a trip across the scales (with the driver in the car and a full gas tank), you will know how much spare capacity exists without the trailer attached on each of the axles. Now take the trailer across the scales at it's usual weight and see if there is indeed a transfer of the tongue weight to the TV. Any unused weight in the TV numbers then has to be allocated to passengers and their "stuff" in the TV. Now go fully loaded with passengers, "stuff", and loaded trailer to ensure the GVW of both the trailer and TV are not exceeded.

In a perfect world, after the hitch is setup properly, the trailer should be level or avery slightly nose down (less than 0.5") so the TV and TT do not appear as a "V" when looked at from the side. The TV should also be level so the headlights are on the road and not the tree tops.

I suggest contacting Andy Thompson at CanAM in Canada. He has set up hundreds of smaller vehicles to tow even the largest Airstreams. He is located in London Ontario Canada (eastern time) and the phone number is (519) 652-3284.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by switz

All four TV tires need to be at the same pressure with an load equalizer hitch. Set up properly, in theory the hitch distributes the tongue weight equally (1/3 to each) to the three axle sets: trailer axle(s), rear TV axle and front TV axle.

So in my case, the tongue weight is 1,150 pounds. In theory, I am transferring 375 pounds to the TV front axle and 350 pounds to the TV rear axle. Thus the need to know the axle ratings of the TV from the door plate and after a trip across the scales (with the driver in the car and a full gas tank), you will know how much spare capacity exists without the trailer attached on each of the axles. Now take the trailer across the scales at it's usual weight and see if there is indeed a transfer of the tongue weight to the TV. Any unused weight in the TV numbers then has to be allocated to passengers and their "stuff" in the TV. Now go fully loaded with passengers, "stuff", and loaded trailer to ensure the GVW of both the trailer and TV are not exceeded.

In a perfect world, after the hitch is setup properly, the trailer should be level or avery slightly nose down (less than 0.5") so the TV and TT do not appear as a "V" when looked at from the side. The TV should also be level so the headlights are on the road and not the tree tops.

I suggest contacting Andy Thompson at CanAM in Canada. He has set up hundreds of smaller vehicles to tow even the largest Airstreams. He is located in London Ontario Canada (eastern time) and the phone number is (519) 652-3284.

Not necessarily, IMO. Depends on the vehicle and what the vehicle mfr recommends on the door jamb. I agree with you if the door jamb recommends all four the same. Then you make adjustments in increments at the same pressure all the way around.

Many vehicles are not the same, particularly 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. Those should be raised IN PROPORTION to the original door jamb recommendation.

[switz]

Actually, there are tire pressure vs weight capacity tables from most tire manufacturers that should be referenced to help in choosing less than the maximum pressure and weight capacity allowed printed on the sidewall of the tire. The door jamb numbers are about ride comfort more than weight capacity for towing.

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by switz

Actually, there are tire pressure vs weight capacity tables from most tire manufacturers that should be referenced to help in choosing less than the maximum pressure and weight capacity allowed printed on the sidewall of the tire. The door jamb numbers are about ride comfort more than weight capacity for towing.

Yes, there are charts about weight vs air pressure, but I've found there's more to it than just weight when you are towing and seeking stability. The max pressure that a rear tire will handle will get you the max stability available from that paticular tire. It may not be needed in every case, but the OP obviously has a sway problem.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by switz

Actually, there are tire pressure vs weight capacity tables from most tire manufacturers that should be referenced to help in choosing less than the maximum pressure and weight capacity allowed printed on the sidewall of the tire. The door jamb numbers are about ride comfort more than weight capacity for towing.

Not for work all capable trucks. IIRC, the Silverado 2500 HD I just got out of said 70 psi front 80 psi rear. That's set up for GAWRs specifically at full load. When I was empty and using it for company travel I backed it off so I wasn't loosening up my crowns!

You need to analyze what is in your particular driveway before making these decisions.

Go to a mini van or 1500 series SUV and crossovers, your are correct. But if even they have a different setting for front and rear, you should pay attention to that proportion when loading....OR BETTER YET, got to the scales and determine where you are relative to GAWR proportionally.

You can get some squirrelly handling on some vehicles, loaded properly, if you just assume and go to max sidewall as a default.

[SteveH]

A short story:

I recently changed tires on my 3/4 ton pickup. Had Michelins, went to Perelli's. The Michelin had no sway issues, and I ran 70 psi in the rear, 60 in the front (E rated tires). The Perelli's had sway issues to the point it felt like I had a very low tire with the same pressure. Stopped at a roadside park, pulled out the little compressor, aired up the rear tires to 80 psi........ no more sway problems.

Different tires have different hardness of rubber compounds, and produce different driving "feel".

And this is with a ProPride hitch, so tire pressure is very important.

[zeppelin]

This topic is the classic case of the "the more you learn, the more you realize you do not know."

By the way, people seem to reference "Andy" a lot -- does this guy just spend his time helping people out of the goodness of his heart or does he charge some sort of consulting fee? I almost feel bad consulting the guy unless I am going to be buying something from him...

I still feel like from a financial perspective it makes sense for me to start with hitch solutions prior to buying a new vehicle, but I must say that the more I search the forum, the more I keep finding threads that then make me question everything and wonder if I just need to get a big rig.

This is kind of interesting/fun, but also kind of frustrating.

[SteveH]

If you were retired, and towed the trailer almost daily, I would suggest you get a bigger tow vehicle. But, you have stated the vehicle is also your wife's driver. So I would suggest you do all the cheap things first, like first adjust tire pressures. Next work with the adjustment of your hitch to get the most out of it.(if need be recruit some expereinced help) If then you are still not satisfied, go to a better hitch, and I recommend the ProPride. At this point you still have not spent the "big bucks", and have spent no money foolishly.

Then if you are still not satisfied, consider a more capable tow vehicle. Just my suggestions having gone thru this before you.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by zeppelin

This topic is the classic case of the "the more you learn, the more you realize you do not know."

By the way, people seem to reference "Andy" a lot -- does this guy just spend his time helping people out of the goodness of his heart or does he charge some sort of consulting fee? I almost feel bad consulting the guy unless I am going to be buying something from him...

I still feel like from a financial perspective it makes sense for me to start with hitch solutions prior to buying a new vehicle, but I must say that the more I search the forum, the more I keep finding threads that then make me question everything and wonder if I just need to get a big rig.

This is kind of interesting/fun, but also kind of frustrating.

CSNY words of wisdom to live by,

"Don't let it get you down, it's only castles burning. Just find someone who's turning, and you will come around...."

Find an expert locally who can lay hands on your rig and set you up with the proper equipment and knowledge. I'll bet one of the forum members lives close by.

Keep reading though, so at least you know the right questions!

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by SteveH

A short story:

I recently changed tires on my 3/4 ton pickup. Had Michelins, went to Perelli's. The Michelin had no sway issues, and I ran 70 psi in the rear, 60 in the front (E rated tires). The Perelli's had sway issues to the point it felt like I had a very low tire with the same pressure. Stopped at a roadside park, pulled out the little compressor, aired up the rear tires to 80 psi........ no more sway problems.

Different tires have different hardness of rubber compounds, and produce different driving "feel".

And this is with a ProPride hitch, so tire pressure is very important.

In retrospect, My jamb may have been 60/70 and I was lowering it to 50/60 for solo travel. Is that what your jamb says?
Mine had snow plow prep too which may have changed the label. Anyway, the proportion is my important point.

[SteveH]

My door jam states 60-72 with 265/70/17 LRE tires, and I assume this is good for truck's rated capacity. When I use the truck for a while without the trailer, I reduce the rears to 60 psi for a more comfortable ride.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by SteveH

My door jam states 60-72 with 265/70/17 LRE tires, and I assume this is good for truck's rated capacity. When I use the truck for a while without the trailer, I reduce the rears to 60 psi for a more comfortable ride.

OK, I had the 18" tires, probably the difference there. Thanks.

[Garfield]

Originally Posted by SteveH

Zeppelin,
What you really need is a minivan with a V6 engine....that's what all the Canadians say is THE best!

Honestly, I would have no concerns towing the the OP's 28 footer with my V6 Traverse...the extra 1000 lbs over my 25 footer would hardly be noticeable, at least around these parts. Proper setup is the key. As for power/performance, that all boils down to personal preference...everyone has to decide what is acceptable for them.

[Wazbro]

Originally Posted by switz

Actually, there are tire pressure vs weight capacity tables from most tire manufacturers that should be referenced to help in choosing less than the maximum pressure and weight capacity allowed printed on the sidewall of the tire. The door jamb numbers are about ride comfort more than weight capacity for towing.

Not quite the door jam numbers are the MINIMUM pressure for the max GVW of the vehicle. IMO you are right this does not take towing into account and the weight charts don't either.

On a resent trip I forgot to put the friction sway bar on when hitching and during the first 45 minutes the rear tires of my vehicle increased 6 PSI from heat buildup. Then I stopped and put the friction sway bar on and during the next 30 minutes the rear tires dropped to 4 psi over their starting pressure which is were they stayed for the next and final 45 minutes of the trip. This shows that added stress from sway puts more load on tires in addition to weight.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by Wazbro

Not quite the door jam numbers are the MINIMUM pressure for the max GVW of the vehicle. IMO you are right this does not take towing into account and the weight charts don't either.

On a resent trip I forgot to put the friction sway bar on when hitching and during the first 45 minutes the rear tires of my vehicle increased 6 PSI from heat buildup. Then I stopped and put the friction sway bar on and during the next 30 minutes the rear tires dropped to 4 psi over their starting pressure which is were they stayed for the next and final 45 minutes of the trip. This shows that added stress from sway puts more load on tires in addition to weight.

Edit: I misread your statement. Most all of the time this is true. There are exceptions, but probably not for any vehicles we'd talk about in this towing forum. (except if you're Canadian) JUST KIDDING!

However, back to our original issue, Just because you MAY add air to the rears, up to max sidewall, does not mean you should do the same to the front.

[switz]

Andy does not charge any fees for his suggestions. He has set up hundreds of trailers (not just Airstreams) with many using smaller tow vehicles, like my Mercedes ML320 CDI diesel. Obviously, if you buy something in the future, that is a bonus. I found out about him on the forum. I ended up driving over there from Arizona (4,400 mile round trip) to have my Mercedes factory hitch reinforced so I could pull with a weight distribution hitch (I chose a Hensley, also from the forum). He gave me some initial suggested settings over the telephone for the car tire pressure and Hensley hitch that worked spot on for the initial tow home.

He also writes in some of the RV industry magazines on the subject of towing. At the CanAM website, some of his articles are links you can read.

The challenge for me is daily I learn I have more to learn and my opinions change with the additional input of new information.

[ROBERT CROSS]

How many know exactly what their rig weighs? Ready for Camping.
25' 2003 Classic 15960lbs


A lot of talk about how what your TV is capable of, tire pressures, hitch set-up, weight transfer.
You've 'gotta start somewhere, get the "real" info, makes doing the rite thing a lot easier.
If I hadn't done that at the start, I wouldn't have learned thru some research
that our 03 Classic has a listed GVWR of 7300lbs, (actual 7640lb), with an axle rating of 7000lbs, (two 3500lb), a CCC of a whopping 676lbs, that's everything your loading in your trailer.
A listed tongue weight guess of 760bs, (actual 1200Lbs).


Point is....it's a lot easier to get where your going if you know from whence you started.

Bob

[MaxTow]

Originally Posted by zeppelin 1235422

This is kind of interesting/fun, but also kind of frustrating.

Welcome to the world of internet wisdom.

The two most frustrating topics are:
- Selection of Tow Vehicle,
- Selection of Tires for your Trailer.

There are other minor scirmishes around choice of selant for your Airstream, or hitch selection, but the two above are the biggies.

Convention wisdom is that you need a big truck to pull a trailer. There is a considerable body of evidence however that there are other alternatives.

One of the best posts to a similar thread is quoted below:

Originally Posted by mstephens

It's really great to see the progressive/creative camp, like Andrew, using empirical methods to develop good TV options. This is the essential element of good science - the basis of the scientific method. It's how progress is always made. From everything I have read thus far, the evidence is real, plentiful, and strongly supports the ideas that are being employed by these 'radicals.'

Originally Posted by mstephens

When I first got my trailer, I was completely unaware of this camp's thinking and results, and I followed the conventional wisdom and got the Suburban. I like it a lot and have few complaints, but when it is time to retire the Sub, I will definitely be looking in the progressive camp to see what they are up to, and hopefully end up with a good TV that is both a pleasure to drive and competent at towing - and with better gas mileage to boot. That Lexus SUV looks really great!

It appears that the people towing with these "progressive" rigs are not in fact demolishing school buses, rolling over on the highway, losing their brakes on grades, or twisting off their receivers with half the back end of the car. Rather, I seem to be reading about thousands of towing miles with comfort and reliability and confidence.

This information is not very common. I didn't see any of it when I first started out looking for a TV. I relied then on the CV to inform my choice. So, I hope you progressives and empiricists will continue to post your results (even through the scoffing), and your details and continue to creatively search out more options!

This is from:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238/jeep-grand-cherokee-and-towing-98848.html

which is a very interesting read.

My advice is to take your time and explore all the options. If you have your heart set on a new truck, and you like trucks, then it's a perfectly acceptable solution.

But there have been plenty of good suggestions on less expensive options to address what appear to be the major concerns without spending a huge amount of money.

You will not go wrong with the Hensley or ProPride hitch. There's little bashing of these hitches other than the cost compared with other solutions. The only other item to watch out for is the weight. These are heavy, so you need to watch the truck's payload.

My mantra for tow vehicles is to watch the payload ratings. This is almost always the limiting factor in what you can haul - and it's why I ended up with an F-150.

One more note on internet wisdom - not all opinions are well informed, or maybe were well informed 10 or 20 years ago - but times have moved on. There are many who say you cannot pull with an 1/2ton PU. But this ignores the capabilites of 1/2ton PUs of today which when properly equipped outperform the 3/4ton pick-ups of only a few years ago.

So yes...it can be frustrating, especially if you are the kind of person that just 'wants the answer'. The reality is that there is no one right answer to this question. It's too personal.

At the end of the day, decide what type of vehicle you want to drive every day, and go from there.

[ROBERT CROSS]

"At the end of the day, decide what type of vehicle you want to drive every day, and go from there." .......that is capable of safely towing your trailer.

[SteveH]

Yea, I know how much it weighs, but just because you have a tow vehicle that is rated for the weight you are towing, or more, does not mean you will necessarily have a good towing rig. The setup is always the important point, and many times depending on hitch type, could take a great deal of time to get right.