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Old 01-19-2016, 11:44 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by bobzdar View Post
I have a similar fuel issue with my current truck, 22 gallon tank and 10-12mpg means a fuel stop every 3 hours, but that's usually as far as we go so not a big deal. 3 hours is about the limit before somebody has to use the bathroom anyway.
My record poor milage with the GW was towing the AS into a constant 30 mph headwind somewhere in NM. As I remember the record that day was filling up 6 times, and worried about finding the next station before I got too low. I recall 5 to 6 mpg. Memory says it was an 18 gal tank on that rig. I also recall driving for many miles in 2nd gear on the 3 speed auto, as high gear would not tow into that wind.

I was on a "one lap of America" trip and finally added an extra tank in CA before I got home. Ah, memories of the early 80's towing.
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Old 01-20-2016, 12:10 AM   #16
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Always thought Harrah's Ferrari engine swap was a cool jeep upgrade. Pat
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Old 01-20-2016, 09:13 AM   #17
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1967 26' Overlander
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Always thought Harrah's Ferrari engine swap was a cool jeep upgrade. Pat
I think if I went that route I'd just get a Lambo LM002. However, I don't have that kind of $$ (nor the money for fuel to feed it), so a tuned/slightly hopped up 360 should be fine.
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Old 01-20-2016, 10:43 AM   #18
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What were the upgrades you did?

That 2nd picture is why I want one

Bob,


Activating long dormant grey cells…… please take into consideration some info may be hazy or missing because of the need to forget some of the old stuff to make room for the new stuff.

So….starting from the front, with what I feel were the most effective & important.

Electric aux cooling fan wired to come on manually and/or @ full throttle with a TPS.

Remanufactured radiator, dual core cross flow.

High output water pump.

Overdrive crankshaft vibration damper with degree wheel.

Home brewed MacGyver inspired water injection, using a 50/50 mix of blue WW solvent, Bosch electric fuel injector, switched manually & with the above TP switch.

Edelbrock intake manifold & 650cfm carb, cold air intake with hi-flow filter.

Exhaust headers,(brand?), two into one 31/2” single exhaust…local Mufflerman shop.

Accel High Output coil & SP wires, Bosch Plat Spark Plugs. Re-curve kit for stock distributor.

External transmission filter with temp gauge.

B&M transmission valve body and Hi-stall torque converter.

Results….it no longer overheated, best mpg towing was 11, dead flat, no turns in Neb at 55mph for 200mi.
Lo or second still needed on long hills. Merging & passing much better. (It was probably the quickest GW around when not towing.)

Most importantly….
A much higher Peace-of-Mind Quotient along with substancially lower Co-Pilot fault finding reports.


Would it be something I would do today?......probably not at my age, but....never mind.

Good Luck...

Oh cr@p I forgot....it got an Edelbrock Torquer Cam w/new springs also.


Bob
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Old 01-20-2016, 11:14 AM   #19
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1967 26' Overlander
Richmond , Virginia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
Bob,


Activating long dormant grey cells…… please take into consideration some info may be hazy or missing because of the need to forget some of the old stuff to make room for the new stuff.

So….starting from the front, with what I feel were the most effective & important.

Electric aux cooling fan wired to come on manually and/or @ full throttle with a TPS.

Remanufactured radiator, dual core cross flow.

High output water pump.

Overdrive crankshaft vibration damper with degree wheel.

Home brewed MacGyver inspired water injection, using a 50/50 mix of blue WW solvent, Bosch electric fuel injector, switched manually & with the above TP switch.

Edelbrock intake manifold & 650cfm carb, cold air intake with hi-flow filter.

Exhaust headers,(brand?), two into one 31/2” single exhaust…local Mufflerman shop.

Accel High Output coil & SP wires, Bosch Plat Spark Plugs. Re-curve kit for stock distributor.

External transmission filter with temp gauge.

B&M transmission valve body and Hi-stall torque converter.

Results….it no longer overheated, best mpg towing was 11, dead flat, no turns in Neb at 55mph for 200mi.
Lo or second still needed on long hills. Merging & passing much better. (It was probably the quickest GW around when not towing.)

Most importantly….
A much higher Peace-of-Mind Quotient along with substancially lower Co-Pilot fault finding reports.


Would it be something I would do today?......probably not at my age, but....never mind.

Good Luck...

Oh cr@p I forgot....it got an Edelbrock Torquer Cam w/new springs also.


Bob
Thanks Bob, great info.
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Old 01-20-2016, 11:23 AM   #20
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They're is a guy in Texas that rebuilds the GW then sells them. I think he is called the Wagon master.
I have a friend that has one of his beautiful restorations
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Old 01-20-2016, 11:25 AM   #21
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http://www.wagonmaster.com/
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Old 01-20-2016, 11:29 AM   #22
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1987 32' Excella
Knoxville , Tennessee
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I had a Wagoneer. I would not even want to ride in one again, yet alone toe with it. Not a vintage guy.
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Old 01-20-2016, 11:33 AM   #23
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These are becoming a classic so don't expect a good one to be cheap. And good ones are hard to find because of the snow use and minimal rust protection, many are rust buckets. They are one of the best snow vehicles made so people in Aspen and elsewhere who like the look spend whatever it takes to restore one to new condition.
I think the suspension is too soft for good towing. If you beef it up that compliant ride goes away.
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Old 01-20-2016, 12:38 PM   #24
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These are becoming a classic so don't expect a good one to be cheap. And good ones are hard to find because of the snow use and minimal rust protection, many are rust buckets. They are one of the best snow vehicles made so people in Aspen and elsewhere who like the look spend whatever it takes to restore one to new condition.
I think the suspension is too soft for good towing. If you beef it up that compliant ride goes away.
I've found one with zero rust and a decent interior. Clear is peeling and some fading on the wood, but all trim there and in good shape and not even surface rust underneath. One of the (many) benefits of living below the MD line. Needs a headliner and a few other things inside. Just need to assess it mechanically (no visible leaks underneath) and see whether it has the 3.31 gears. I'm willing to make some modifications, but draw the line at major component replacement or re-gearing as I just don't have that time. But yeah, 5-10k for a decent one and 20+k for a really nice one (and only going up). I don't even want to look at what those wagonmaster GW's cost.

This one is nice, but out of my budget:

1986 Jeep Grand Wagoneer

Going to test drive the local one tonight so will update with some pics and my thoughts.

On the soft ride, my truck is an LS model which has a damn spongy suspension - even without towing it was too soft. I added Z71 spec shocks and it solved the issues without making the ride harsh, so I'm confident I can do similar with the GW and a good set of Bilsteins or perhaps the adjustable Rancho 9000s.

My immediate plans regardless of the GW I get:

Add trans cooler if not equipped along with electric fan for the trans cooler
Upgrade shocks
replace any worn suspension pieces
Good high load range tires
Full once over on the brakes replacing anything that doesn't look close to perfect
Carb/timing set properly - may even use a wide band o2 sensor to dial it in
Full fluid change with synthetics - maybe a synthetic blend in the engine as I've had bad luck switching to a full synthetic from dino oil (lots of leaks)

I don't know how many old cars I've gotten my hands on that were supposedly 'well tuned' that were so far out of whack it wasn't funny. Almost always the timing is set either to the emissions sticker settings, set with the vacuum advance still hooked up, or just by ear at idle. That can be fine if the distributor has been properly curved, but most of the time the mech. advance is locked up or only pulling in 10-15 degrees of timing! That means they're fine at idle but have zero power when higher in the rpm range and run hot as all get out. I had one car where the PO had gone through the distributor but put the advance weights back on upside down, so it wasn't advancing it all. Took me a while to figure out why the heck the dist. looked perfectly fine but wouldn't pull any timing in. Just those little things on an old motor make a huge difference.

It's also telling that the high alt. timing specs are 6 degrees higher than standard - which tells me they dial the timing way back from the factory either to get it to run on cheap fuel or for emission reasons. I only check the idle timing to see if the distributor is advancing properly, otherwise I set timing at 3000-4000rpm (wherever it stops advancing) and let the initial fall where it may as that's the rpm you really want your engine running right, not just at idle. I only mess with initial timing and timing curve if it's hard to start hot.

I used to tune my cars with a gtech (more mph in the 1/8 = more power), but don't think I'll do that with a GW!
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Old 01-20-2016, 01:49 PM   #25
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Question

Bob,

Check for crankcase blow-by, quite common.

Get it towing warm/hot, inspect hose to the air cleaner for puffing oil mist, ck in the cleaner for oil, if it looks too clean be suspicious.

I would not, could not recommend a restoration back to 'original'.....as the Original was not all that great for towing to begin with.

(FWIW....KB @ Jeep Eagle Dealer 87-88)

Bob
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Old 01-20-2016, 03:48 PM   #26
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The grand wagoneers had a 21 gallon tank. The J10 and J20 pickup trucks have an 18 gallon tank. I still have a GW and my dad has my j20.
I also have an aftermarket auxilliary fuel tank (never used) that goes where the spare tire goes. I don't have any of the hoses that go with it.

It would be a fun vehicle to repower with an engine and drivetrain from a Grand Cherokee. The tough part would be getting all the electronics to work properly. The original smogged 360 engine was about 180 horsepower from the factory. If your a gearhead the 360 AMC engine is an easy one to wake up but it will still never be equivalent to a modern engine. The transmission in the model years you are seeking (87-91) is the Chrysler 727 but has the AMC engine bolt pattern. They were reliable transmissions if you keep the heat down, 3 speeds aren't great for towing.
These model years also had the NP229 transfer case. 2wd, full time 4wd high and part time 4wd low.

One critical place to look for rust is on the frame next to the fuel tank. This area can hold mud, dirt, salt etc.... and rust the frame in this area. I believe there are frame repair kits available.
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Old 01-20-2016, 11:20 PM   #27
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1967 26' Overlander
Richmond , Virginia
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So I evaluated the local gw, took it for a spin and got it up to speed on the highway. Temps here were cold, upper 20's but it started without much effort and the choke worked properly. I did notice it wasn't running too smoothly but evened out a little as it warmed up. It felt anemic, but given the somewhat rough running and the seller indicating it needed carb tuning I wasn't too surprised or concerned (yet). The power assist on the brakes didn't feel 100% so my first thought was vacuum leak.

Upon under hood inspection, the egr valve was not hooked up and not capped off, so it was puffing. Not sure if the carb side of the connection was also open, but that would explain the vacuum leak. The vac advance on the distributor wasn't hooked up either, which would explain some of the rough running. All easy enough stuff to address.

Other issues were a power steering leak, minor leak from the valley pan/intake gasket (replacement included), and it needs a new radiator. Suspension and brakes were better than I expected, the ride was firm but not harsh and it rode nicely on the highway at 70mph. I also confirmed it has the 3.31 gears. So far so good.

However, I noticed that when pulling away from a stop, it was a little jerky and had what felt like a minor engine vibration when running it up to speed on the highway. That coupled with the somewhat rough idle had me thinking it's not running on all 8 cylinders. Unplugging the plug wires one by one confirmed that cylinder 6 wasn't firing. I pulled the oil hose while it was running and there wasn't excessive crank case vapor, there was also no smoke at all at cold startup or when revving the engine, so my thought is bad or fouled plug, bad lifter, flat cam lobe or a valve issue. Valve issue or cylinder issue (unlikely given lack of blowby) would be a deal breaker, but the rest isn't difficult and could be addressed without pulling the engine or head.

I'll have to sleep on it as I'm not sure my plan of action on diagnosing the issue and I don't want to tear into the guy's motor. That said, I highly doubt I'll find one with as clean a body and interior. Not even a hint of rust.
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Old 01-29-2016, 10:25 AM   #28
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1967 26' Overlander
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I have an agreement to pick this '89 GW up, Baltic blue with fresh paint and factory tow package so it has the 3.31 gears, external trans cooler, hitch and wiring. Interior is nice but needs headliner and the cargo carpet. Everything works except the rear wiper and remote mirrors - even the a/c compressor engages properly. Some of the accessories are a little weak (rear window and power locks), so likely needs some sorting of grounds/fusible links and lubrication. Engine and trans are solid, 4x4 works. Seller has a brand new aluminum radiator he's going to throw in it and it also has new front brakes, new shocks, and a new carb. Should be picking it up in around 3 weeks as that's the first time our schedules align. That coincides with a planned camping trip (if weather cooperates), so I will probably take it to the campground to tinker with but will tow the airstream with my truck. Needs drivers side exhaust donut and carb tuning (it's so rich at idle it waters the eyes). I plan to add light truck a/t tires in 30x9.5, do the aforementioned tuning, and replace any rubber brake lines before trying to tow anything with it, then will address weak areas as I find them provided it's stable at highway speed.
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