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Old 03-06-2012, 07:24 AM   #1
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LNG/Gas Pickups

Ford was way ahead of the curve on this one. Unlike Ram and GM, Ford does their conversions in-house. Having owned a LNG/Gas Bobcat, I'm sold on the concept. Used to have my own propane wet feed here at the house until the EPA and insurance companies decided that they needed to protect me from my self!

GM offering bi-fuel pickups | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com
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Old 03-06-2012, 07:34 AM   #2
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Ford's long-time focus on fleet vehicle sales is what led them to CNG first.

We also used propane as a motor fuel for several years. We quit with the proliferation
of fuel injection. Our conversion kits had been installed on several vehicles, but were for carburetors.

Fuel availability for vehicles used for more than just close in driving is the main problem.

It worked great for us on the trucks that stayed on or close to the farm.
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:27 AM   #3
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I've looked at dual fuel. Just check a map for CNG stations nationwide. That cuts out that idea quickly. And, as both CNG and propane have less btu content than diesel it takes more on an adjusted per gallon basis to travel the same distance. The cost for retrofitting highly expensive CNG tanks kills the idea completely.

CNG is really for fleets operating in a region.

However, a propane tank added to the TV and used to extend diesel fuel range -- plus increase TT propane capacity -- makes some sense where a propane generator is kept aboard either TT or TV. A commercial spec ONAN (vs RV spec) is larger and heavier, but turns slower speeds and burns less fuel. The duty rating is what to study in this approach.

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Old 03-07-2012, 10:29 PM   #4
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T. Boone Pickens had a great letter in yesterday's WSJ pointing out that it took five years to switch from gas to diesel and predicted that switching to LNG/CNG would take even less time. Ram introduced their dual fuel truck today.
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:34 PM   #5
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Switching liquid fuels is easy. Changing to pressurized fuels is quite another. It should be obvous that T. Boone is in the business of attracting investors, not so much as an "energy expert". Best not to confuse one with the other. Or to believe the WSJ, whose "function" operates in a similar manner. (As with the NYT on foreign affairs: drumroll, please).

Of course, you can buy one and let us know how it works. No question that CNG is attractive for a metro area (home CNG "pumps" prohibitively expensive) if several layers of tax advantages accrue to ones business and personal situation.

Gonna have to get with some of the attorneys and CPA's around here to figure a shell corp that as a government "security" sub-contractor needing secure fuel access and local or remote 24/7 on-site personnel at a moments notice in a COG scheme. As an operator of a mass of CNG-powered drones . . that ought to float a boat or two up the creek.

Plenty of "testing" will need be done with TT & TV "support" vehicles in outlying areas . . . .

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Old 03-07-2012, 10:49 PM   #6
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Last year T Boone was pushing windmills. Now he is promoting CNG for long haul trucks.

The economics are there but somebody would have to build an awful lot of CNG stations. And many truck stops are out in rural areas where there isn't any gas distribution, so not sure how they can do it. Might be feasible to truck and store refrigerated liquid natural gas. (Not in my back yard, please.)

But as I recently pointed out on another thread, looks to me like it makes more sense to build a few large gas-to-liquid-fuel plants in major gas producing regions and ship their synthetic gasoline and diesel fuel through existing distribution channels. The technology to do it has been around for quite a while.

Gas to liquids - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 03-07-2012, 11:19 PM   #7
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Oh, CNG will have a place in the mix. But not for we ordinary folks I'd wager. The price of access will always be high, and it is the access to the fuel, not the fuel itself is the problem (subsidization).

Gasoline was once dirt cheap, could hardly give it away at several early points (the reason for OPEC's predecessor, the Texas Railroad Commission which set wellhead production limits), but that's more than forty years done and gone. The replacements for gasoline will be anything but cheap.

T.Boone is only about 30-years late as the energy needed for the transition (this, one of many) is no longer cheap nor any longer easily available. We blew the Alyeska oil we could have used to make this kind of switch societally affordable.

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Old 03-08-2012, 06:48 AM   #8
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CNG is a viable fuel, but just like Hydrogen will be, like ethanol is to some extent, the infrastructure isn't there and that infrastructure is expensive! Electricity infrastructure is there, needs some tweeking, but the battery technology isn't there except for commuter vehicles.

CNG is over $1,000,000 per station X 170,000 gas stations = $170,000,000,000 for fast fill stations with capacity to fill at a multile vehicle rate. CNG is GREAT for many of my fleet customers, with captive vehicles, who can install an onsite slow fill (or fast, if their wealthy). The technology is proven. (BTW, re. an above post, Ford, GM, and Dodge have been in and out of this game for decades. Who was first is lost in the annals of time...and it is irrelevant anyway.)
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:56 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denis4x4 View Post
Ford was way ahead of the curve on this one. Unlike Ram and GM, Ford does their conversions in-house. Having owned a LNG/Gas Bobcat, I'm sold on the concept. Used to have my own propane wet feed here at the house until the EPA and insurance companies decided that they needed to protect me from my self!

GM offering bi-fuel pickups | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com
Ford doesn't do their conversions in house, it is done by an upfitter close to the assembly plant. All 3 makers have done it this way for many years. Ford also does not warrant the CNG components (unless something has changed in the last few weeks that I am not aware of).
GM, on the other hand, starting with the vans and cutaways a few monthe ago, does the assembly right on the line with OEM wiring harness (a HUGE issue in past CNG vehicles), High pressure connectors, etc. In addition, GM warrants ALL the (IMPCO supplied) CNG components as part or the GM new vehicle warranty. (Also a HUGE issue in the past)
Because GM builds it, it is ALL certified and crash tested by GM. (another HUGE issue with fleets).
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:57 AM   #10
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I came very close to buying a 2004 Ford F-150 SuperCab with dual fuel (gas and CNG) with AC, 5.4 litre V8, but Rednax has it right:

It's a great fuel, but would be a challenge to tour with, due to the scarcity of fuel outlets, and to buy the generator that would create the ability to fuel up at home was waaay to much money.

I would have bought it, but when I took a bus to go inspect/buy it, it poured ATF when started, and while the leak was being fixed at a local garage, I had a good look at the body, and it showed signs of either being over-loaded or having been in an accident.

The great thing that was the idea that either regular gas OR CNG could have been used at the flip of a switch, therefore taking advantage of cheaper and cleaner fuel when it was available.

It just wasn't to be, I guess. But there is good potential for this system, I feel.
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Old 03-08-2012, 09:39 AM   #11
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We may get there..... eventually.



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Old 05-08-2012, 06:08 PM   #12
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There may be hope...

CNG Interstate
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:35 PM   #13
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It works out city will pay you to use Nat Gas in buisness

My plumber figured out he made money converting all vehicles to Natural Gas it took some work but he is such cheap ass. Same guy got free F250 diesel crew cab using ford credit card with 200k balance lol 7 percent cash back.
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