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Old 05-10-2015, 08:09 PM   #15
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AnnArbor Bob....you are spot-on....I want one soooo bad. Was trying to make myself feel better. Making diesel noises as I type this. Well...maybe next year. Stay safe. jon
If I had a 25' or smaller trailer, I wouldn't consider owning a Diesel because of the expense.

On the subject of fuel mileage, my '12 Cummins equipped Ram doesn't quite get the mileage of the later models.
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Old 05-10-2015, 09:44 PM   #16
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If you tow above sea level without a turbo you will lose power sooner than you realize. The turbo restores the power altitude incipiently robs. That and economy based on higher weight hauling capability (torque) is another advantage. Diesels are 40% more efficient going higher, faster, or heavier than gas. Turbo diesels provide more air for combustion. These are the reasons the trucking industry use them. In the long run, for heavy duty use, diesels are cheaper to operate. Gas engines are not as durable.
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Old 05-10-2015, 10:15 PM   #17
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Sorry, but a little hijacking. I get almost the same mileage on my 2011, 1500 hemi. 4x crew cab. I just came back from Texas, not towing and got 18.9 mpg. I get 11-12 towing. I have a 2010 FC 25 ft front bed. Hard for me to justify the diesel. Also these figures are about the same as a Ford F150 Eco.
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Old 05-11-2015, 10:11 AM   #18
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We just bought a 2015 Ram 2500 diesel and are currently on our first voyage with it. We are towing a 30' FC at the 55 mph speed limit, and have gone from Southern California to the southern Oregon coast, so the trip has consisted of varied terrain. On the flats of California's Central Valley, which is several hundred miles, we averaged >16mpg, and overall 14.5 for the one way trip. We did have a good tail wind for about 300 of the 1000 mile trip. I'll be interested in the mileage on the return trip.
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Old 05-11-2015, 05:15 PM   #19
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Looks like most of us with later model 2500HD w/Cummins are in the same ballpark. I towed my '12 28' Intl CCD about 8,000 miles last summer/fall and averaged 14.5 MPG. Thus far with my new Classic, I'm right at 14. Will have a better feel after summer's over and I've towed more with the new trailer. I do have 4WD...may have a minor impact on MPG. If so, I don't mind....I saw another reason for 4WD last week at the Region 4 rally when a 3500 Cummins (dualie) got stock on soggy ground with a 34. If he'd had 4WD, think he'd have been ok. When you don't need it you don't, but when you do....
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Old 05-11-2015, 05:16 PM   #20
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Sorry, it was Region 3 rally ...Ladson, SC.
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Old 05-13-2015, 05:53 AM   #21
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Late model Ram 2500 diesel fuel economy towing??

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAB View Post
Looks like most of us with later model 2500HD w/Cummins are in the same ballpark. I towed my '12 28' Intl CCD about 8,000 miles last summer/fall and averaged 14.5 MPG. Thus far with my new Classic, I'm right at 14. Will have a better feel after summer's over and I've towed more with the new trailer. I do have 4WD...may have a minor impact on MPG. do....

What travel speed, and are you using cruise control?

If not all miles, then do you break out Interstate/CC engaged miles?

For everyone:

4WD penalty is at least 2-mpg for actual average mpg. Tire selection plays a role for both 4 and 2wD. Trailer tires at less than 100% pressure is also a penalty (past tire life and braking optimization).

2-mpg over 100k from 14-16 is at least 1000-gls extra to do the same work. It isn't the fuel money so much as the wear to drivetrain, tires etc.

Auto is slightly better than manual for steady state highway for the latest models, but overall average would have to take into account driver motivation as to fuel economy.

Not long after I got mine in '07, I searched for comps. Found about a dozen in South Central US (climate, terrain) and found that for 28-35' TT of this type (not brand) where weights were 8-11k, that early HPCR Cummins was showing 14-16 mpg where operators were keeping travel speed under 65-mph.

That the latest DEF models are in that range is impressive. Thus the Q about travel speed vs mpg.

An auto trans/4WD of today is going to be a bit closer to 2WD/manual than in yesteryear (for most drivers). A VPP hitch is worth more than 1-mpg to the long term tow average (fewer steering corrections per 100-miles) past it's obvious superiority (given that it has been set using scale readings).

How well one is doing is charting the percentage drop for towing vs solo where other conditions are the same. A little over 30% is expected. Under that is more impressive. Most are going to see closer to 40%.

That your vehicles are both new is one reason for asking. The mechanicals are likeliest still at spec.

I would still have TT alignment, bearing and brake pre-set checked. Same for checking caliper drag, alignment and CAC leaks on truck.

As with setting up WD on scale, it is useful to have actual numbers with which to compare over time/miles. The final check is to weigh the rig wheel by wheel. One or more TT tires running hotter than others is an FE penalty (past handling/braking/reliability concerns).

And I would not trust any manufacturer to have settings ideal. That may be different than the acceptable range.

Thx
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Old 05-14-2015, 06:41 AM   #22
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Sorry, but a little hijacking. I get almost the same mileage on my 2011, 1500 hemi. 4x crew cab. I just came back from Texas, not towing and got 18.9 mpg. I get 11-12 towing. I have a 2010 FC 25 ft front bed. Hard for me to justify the diesel. Also these figures are about the same as a Ford F150 Eco.
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Mike, I agree with you, a half ton is a great option and is a comfortable daily driver as well. As you point out, it would be unwise to try to justify purchasing a 3/4 ton truck based on fuel economy improvement.

I am personally very reluctant to replace my Ford F150 because I do like the truck as my daily driver. However the tongue weight of my trailer eats up my cargo capacity and to make matters worse, the truck has a class IV hitch.

Therefore my consideration of a change to a 3/4 ton truck is all about cargo and hitch capacity. If and when I pull the trigger, I would very likely lean to a late model TD Ram for the Cummins engine. With that said, I am curious about the general range of fuel economy folks are experiencing with late model TD Rams.
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Old 05-14-2015, 06:52 AM   #23
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TV selection is always a series of trade-offs. In terms of fuel economy I think there are so many variables, not least is speed/terrain. I find that there's a sweet spot right at 62 MPH. Trailer and TV like that number, and I use CC all the time, with the exception of steep hills, where I prefer to have more control and can sense upshift/downshift and tip in of turbo. Last summer we did the Rockies, and the exhaust braking really solidified (for me), the advantage of the diesel over a gasser. Even on very steep grades, I rarely had to use service brakes. IF I had disc brakes on the trailer, which is basically almost impossible....since Kodiak doesn't offer a rotor that'll work with a 42MM Nev-r-lube bearing, exhaust brakes make a lot of sense. Having a "margin" of capacity just gives me a higher comfort level. I did reduce cargo carrying capacity in the box because I added a 37 gal aux. diesel tank back there....which also added some weight. Now that Ram has coils on the rear of the 2500, the ride is very good -- though it is happier with more weight back there.
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Old 05-14-2015, 07:07 AM   #24
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. . . . . . Last summer we did the Rockies, and the exhaust braking really solidified (for me), the advantage of the diesel over a gasser. Even on very steep grades, I rarely had to use service brakes. . . . . Having a "margin" of capacity just gives me a higher comfort level. . . . .
Thanks for your earlier post on fuel economy and thanks for the reminder about Exhaust Braking, a big advantage in the hills.
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Old 05-14-2015, 07:25 AM   #25
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Don't want to start a "gas vs Diesel" thing, everyone knows we have enough of those, but a gas engine naturally has good engine braking because of the throttle valve, so an exhaust brake is not needed with them.

However, a while back I was doing some work on my truck that caused the exhaust brake to temporarily not work, and believe me when I say a Diesel rig is just not complete without an exhaust brake. Without it, the engine has NO braking effect at all.

To work well, the Diesel must have the exhaust brake AND the turbo.
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Old 05-14-2015, 07:34 AM   #26
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A VPP hitch is worth more than 1-mpg to the long term tow average (fewer steering corrections per 100-miles) past it's obvious superiority (given that it has been set using scale readings).
I've never heard this argument before. Where are you getting this data from?

Not challenging you as I am genuinely interested. I just moved to a larger trailer and need a new hitch. Wasn't going to spring for the VPP type but my analysis can still change.
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Old 05-14-2015, 08:28 AM   #27
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I've never heard this argument before. Where are you getting this data from?

Not challenging you as I am genuinely interested. I just moved to a larger trailer and need a new hitch. Wasn't going to spring for the VPP type but my analysis can still change.

If you've used or observed a VPP hitch in action closely you'd have noticed that the TT no longer wanders or tail wags. Those cause increased steering corrections. The worse the road surface or wind conditions, the worse the effect on FE.

The 100-mile figure is from Cummins and Kenworth white papers on fuel economy. That industry takes FE dead seriously.

Were we hauling the jacked up, high COG plain Jane TTs of today (to clear slide outs) the effect would be magnified that much more. The wind loads on those are substantial. Our trailers are "pulled " by winds passing them more than pushed. A lesser effect, but still real.

A VPP hitch locks things together in a manner of speaking.

FE is a matter of details. They add up. A pickup changed to closed shoulder highway rib tires and a VPP hitch is going to see 1-2 mpg possibly three added to the average annual mpg. Depends on how poorly things were in re lash up, how aggressive were the previous tires, and conditions encountered while underway.

It's a very nice side benefit to the best hitch type (which is a no regret acquisition).
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Old 05-14-2015, 09:21 AM   #28
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The VPP hitch may make a difference in fuel use. When we had a conventional sway control hitch the steering wheel was at a steady, slight turn to compensate for the angle of the trailer to the truck in a heavy crosswind. Or slight corrections needed when a semi passed in crosswind. With our VPP hitch the trailer cannot move out of alignment with the truck (only the truck can initiate a turn), the steering is straight ahead.

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