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Old 07-19-2005, 12:41 AM   #29
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Right on! Thanks for confirming what I thought was the right move. We'll be towing in a bout three weeks.

Cheers,

Rikki

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Originally Posted by Claybuster
I too got rid of an '03 LR Disco (which I loved for everything but towing) and replaced it with an '05 Titan Crew-Cab. My family and I just returned from a 2 week long trip to Yellowstone, which included almost 3200 miles of driving. The combination of 19' Bambi, Titan, Hensley Arrow, and Prodigy controller was probably overkill... but it was a completely relaxed and enjoyable experience.

We were travelling with some friends who have a 36' motorhome and I was watching them blow around during some fierce wind crossing I-90. We didn't feel anything. In fact, for most of the trip (unless going up steep-ish inclines), you couldn't really tell that there was anything behind us.

Whenever I see a Discovery, I think about how much I liked it... but as a tow vehicle, it just wasn't any good.
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Old 09-22-2008, 11:20 PM   #30
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Using my Land Rover LR3 as TV

I've been towing my 1999 Safari 25' with my 2005 Land Rover LR3 HSE. We live in the Lake Tahoe area at 6200' elevation. Many of our trips have involved going down to sea level and back. We've hauled up the mountain from the valley without any problems. Last summer we drove from Sacramento where the temp was 108 degrees and came up the mountain, running the air conditioner with no increase in engine temp. It pulls the Safari very well. Plenty of power to maintain highway speeds on any hill we've encountered. The LR3 has a 300 hp Jaguar engine and a six speed tranny. It's also got self-levelling air suspension so no special hitch is required or recommended. We've been in some pretty windy conditions and lots of mountain roads without any stability issues. I had read posts suggesting that the Land Rover would not work as a tow vehicle, many from people who had never owned or driven one. So, I wanted to relate my actual experiences. I've also towed a 1976 25' Caravanner (destroyed by snow this winter, but that's another story) and a 1973 25' Tradewind. Both of those towed fine with the LR3 as well, but they are both lighter than the 1999 25' Safari. The LR3 has excellent brakes and a short rear overhang. It won an award in Europe for Tow Vehicle of the Year (not sure the details on that, I read the press release but didn't keep a copy). Anyway, I've had nothing but good experiences towing my various Airstreams with the LR3 and can give it a good recommendation as a tow vehicle
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Old 09-25-2008, 08:28 AM   #31
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I find this thread interesting, as I have read on this forum many times where American vehicles with as short of wheelbase as the Land Rover, were highly discouraged as tow vehicles.

Is there a different "stardard" for tow vehicles in Europe?
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Old 09-25-2008, 08:51 AM   #32
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Probably, Steve. I don't see why something as esoteric as towing recommendations would be any different than differing speed limits in various places, illegal blood alcohol levels varying state by state, or laws that prevent you from towing a boat, trailer and motorcycle carrier all at the same time whereas elsewhere it's perfectly fine.

There's data, facts, figures and conclusions, but it kind of boils down to how much weight any of that is given by the governing bodies in a particular area. So while there may be stories of short wheelbase-caused crashes that create "standards" here, overseas they may find wheelbase length just isn't a contributing factor in crashes they've examined.

To each their own, I guess. And hopefully the best data out there is available to everyone to keep us all safer.
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Old 09-25-2008, 08:57 AM   #33
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Steve, we tend to have much lighter trailers and hitch weights in the UK. One of the premier organizations for travel trailer owners in the UK is the Caravan Club. Advice on trailer weight is given here:

Using these guidelines for my Land Rover Discovery TDI (A different beast to the LR3, of which I have no knowledge)
Kerb weight of LR Discovery = 4428 pounds.
CC recommended max trailer weight (surge brakes)= 3761 pounds
CC recommended hitch weight for this max trailer = 262 pounds
The LR shop manual gives the following maxima:
Trailer without brakes = 1654 pounds
Trailer with over-run (surge) brakes = 7717 pounds
Trailer with full brakes = 8820 pounds
I've been driving and trailering with the LR Discovery for 18 years. I would always stick to the CC figures. The vehicle is superb off-road, its true purpose. When I tow my 6500 pound Airstream Excella 25 foot I use my 3/4 ton Dodge Ram Cummins long wheelbase Quad cab Turbo-diesel truck. Now that's the proper tool, IMHO. You couldn't pay me to tow the Airstream behind the LR Discovery.
Nick.
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Old 09-25-2008, 08:59 AM   #34
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I believe their is a different standard in Europe. Over there, they use a "sliding bar" type of hitch, that is fastened forward of the rear of vehicle. Weight distributing type hitches are not used. Also, very little weight on hitch, and most vehicles are not allowed to tow at speeds greater than around 50 mph. The method of hitching/towing is totally different, and would be unsuitable for high speed American towing.
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Old 09-25-2008, 09:01 AM   #35
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Yes, I've actually been to England and found their "caravans" (English for travel trailer) interesting, as they have much less tongue weight (you can tell from the placement of the axle(s), and they normally do not use a WD hitch. However, their roads are smaller, even the "M" roads, (English equivilant of our interstates), and they drive slower, generally speaking. That, I'm sure, is because they have a much shorter distance to go.

But, as I've been told on here many times, "Physics is physics".
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Old 09-25-2008, 09:51 AM   #36
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Also take into consideration you will not get a 25' trailer down most of the country lanes in the UK.. you couldn't even get a dodge truck down the lane behind my Mum's cottage in the UK and it's used as a two lane road....!!!!!!!! about 6-7 ft wide....!!!!!!

There stuff is smaller and lighter... For a reason... If you have been there you know what I'm talking about..... My Mum lives in the Cottswalds, country lanes, even on the main road in front of her cottage cars have to pull on the sidewalks to pass each other... You don't even see pickup trucks driven about unless the person is in the construction business...

If you have ever watched the show "Topgear" They said the F150 didn't sell in the Uk for a reason... Don't need a truck over there, to big to park and craftsmanship sucked... This wasn't even an extended cab or extended bed, that they were driving around..

The LR is about as big as it gets over there... No way can you drive a Suburban around in the country lanes....

Everything is Bigger and Better in the USA...
Isn't that what everyone says....!!!!!!!!

If you like cars watch the show on BBC america.. The show is great...
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Old 02-04-2009, 02:55 PM   #37
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I have a 2006 RR Sport. I would like to tow a 25' CCD. Hitch receiver has the same 550 lb. limit. Manual also says not to use WD system. Out of luck?
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Old 02-04-2009, 09:04 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
I find this thread interesting, as I have read on this forum many times where American vehicles with as short of wheelbase as the Land Rover, were highly discouraged as tow vehicles.

Is there a different "stardard" for tow vehicles in Europe?
Yes, I believe there is a different "towing standard" in Europe. The Caravan Club link provided by Nick recommends a nose weight (tongue weight) of 7% compared to the 10-15% typically found on TTs built in the US. It is interesting to note that 7% of 7700# is close to 550#. And, for the numbers given by Nick, a hitch weight of 262# divided by a trailer weight of 3761# gives a TW of 6.97%.

In order for a trailer to be directionally stable with a TW of 7%, it must have a polar moment of inertia which is significantly less than that for a trailer which is stable with a TW of 13%. European caravans typically have a larger portion of their mass concentrated over the axles and close to the CG. And, they tend to be shorter. Both of these differences contribute to the lower moment of inertia.

Tow vehicle wheelbase is another important factor in directional stability of TV/TT combinations. However, there are many other important factors. Some US-made tow vehicles have a relatively long wheelbase which tends to compensate for shortcomings in other areas. OTOH, European-made tow vehicles have a relatively short wheelbase, which is compensated by stability-related improvements in other factors.

Ron
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Old 02-04-2009, 09:23 PM   #39
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Another sad fact is that a once highly-regarded marque such as Land Rover appears to have, at least in this country, a very poor reliability record.

I don't know how Consumers Reporst data is regarded here, but I believe them to be as unbiased as possible, and in any event, their reliability data is actual owners' responses: "These charts are based on over 1.4 million responses to our 2008 Annual Auto Survey conducted by the Consumer Reports National Research Center."

Now, I don't know how many results they got on Land Rovers, but the LR3 got a "much worse than average" rating, as do the LR2, and the Range Rover.

Pity. These aren't cheap cars.
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Old 02-05-2009, 07:36 AM   #40
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Quote:
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If you have ever watched the show "Topgear" They said the F150 didn't sell in the Uk for a reason... Don't need a truck over there, to big to park and craftsmanship sucked...
Funny...that "300 hp Jaguar" motor is a Ford...

BTW; Jaguar and LR are (until VERY recently) owned by Furd...
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Old 04-26-2009, 09:14 PM   #41
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Rover

I've owned 4 Land Rover vehicles and driven them well over 100,000 miles. I've never had a service, dealer or reliability problem. Currently I have a 2006 RR sport hse. (the ford/jag)

My dad pulled a late 40's 20' Airstream with a 54 Dodge 4 door sedan and later a 65 Ford pickup. I find it hard to believe that the "Rangey" couldn't pull the same.

The underlying problem may be finding and dealer and getting a replacement vehicle in remote areas.

91 Range Rover
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Old 04-27-2009, 07:19 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davcos View Post
I've owned 4 Land Rover vehicles and driven them well over 100,000 miles. I've never had a service, dealer or reliability problem. Currently I have a 2006 RR sport hse. (the ford/jag)

My dad pulled a late 40's 20' Airstream with a 54 Dodge 4 door sedan and later a 65 Ford pickup. I find it hard to believe that the "Rangey" couldn't pull the same.

The underlying problem may be finding and dealer and getting a replacement vehicle in remote areas.

91 Range Rover
02 Discovery
04 Discovery
06 RR Sport
Yes...pulling it is not the problem.
After all, you can pull an AirStream with a bicycle...
Bill
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